Vortex: Fade T3 Ability Questions

hiloboyshiloboys Join Date: 2008-05-27 Member: 64340Members
edited November 2012 in NS2 General Discussion
<div class="IPBDescription">Yea I know but I cant find any info anywhere</div>OK i know that you only get this ability when you have 3 hives and its time to rape the marine turtle with full upgrades.

I understand that the ability puts a unit into like a black hole for 4 seconds.

I tested and found out that it works on:
Marines
Exos
Structures

It costs just about all of your energy if you do not have adrenaline. (Basically fade wont be able to make it out alive of a group of non newbie marines)

It only affects 1 target (Tried hitting 2 but it didnt work the 2 chances I had to use it) Maybe it does but its effect radius is very small and the 2 times i tried it in active games, it only put 1 marine out.

It doesnt interrupt things like distress beacon, (Just stops it for that 4 seconds and after that the distress beacon continues)

Fellow aliens cannot attack unit in Vortex.

Bullets / Grenades do not get absorbed into it. (Was hoping it would absorb it and another vortex would appear by shooter and hit them with their own bullets/nades lol)

Its range is from what I can tell either exact with standard melee attack or slightly larger range/radius. But not enough to make a difference

No effects are gained from using this effect on a structure/exo/etc. (Steal resources, Gain Armor/Attack Buffs, Blind Marine, Etc.)


In my honest opinion, I was really hoping it would be like the old NS1 Onos Devour. Where if you use it on something, within XXX amount of time it dies / gets destroyed unless a marine shoots the vortex and releases it.

Or I would have thought that since it completely drains a Fade that the ability would have been ranged and/or interrupt actions. (Like distress beacon, using it on upgrade machine would disable marine upgrades, using it on advanced weapon would disable all jetpacks/exos (for 4 secs) something awesome like that.

Of course since this is a T3 ability meaning the turtle game needs to end already.

Does anyone know what to use this for if anything? Or any way to "Effectively" use it? I died many times trying to test it on many things when i actually played a turtle game where we got that researched. But all it did was get me killed and protect a marine/exo from being brutally raped by my team just giving him enough time to cooldown his miniguns and when he got out to rape me since i couldnt get away due to lack of energy lol.
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Comments

  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    Its actually just a very hard skill to learn how to use.
    Its basically in the game in order to distinguish between the really good fades and the really bad fades.
    Essentially the really good fades just wont use it and the really bad fades will think they are doing something productive and die.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2012181:date=Nov 5 2012, 08:54 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 5 2012, 08:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012181"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Its actually just a very hard skill to learn how to use.
    Its basically in the game in order to distinguish between the really good fades and the really bad fades.
    Essentially the really good fades just wont use it and the really bad fades will think they are doing something productive and die.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It's actually a very useful support skill. If you have a gorge or skulk with you and you want to take a tech point the marines aren't watching too well, you just go in and vortex the phase and obs until the gorge biles the power down. Also useful for cracking the final marine base, vortex a couple marines while the onos or gorges are taking out the power to prevent them from dying quickly. I would like to see it work on arms labs to temporarily remove upgrades as well.
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    if you get 2 fades using it you can basically stop marines from spawning by vortexing IPs. Its also one of the deadliest abilities against exos, allowing you to surround and finish them off with ease.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    edited November 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2012200:date=Nov 6 2012, 05:06 AM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Nov 6 2012, 05:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012200"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's actually a very useful support skill. If you have a gorge or skulk with you and you want to take a tech point the marines aren't watching too well, you just go in and vortex the phase and obs until the gorge biles the power down. Also useful for cracking the final marine base, vortex a couple marines while the onos or gorges are taking out the power to prevent them from dying quickly. I would like to see it work on arms labs to temporarily remove upgrades as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The phase gate AND the obs?
    With what energy are you able to Vortex the phase-gate AND the obs?

    You would probably jsut be better of being an onos... and destroying the base.

    <!--quoteo(post=2012210:date=Nov 6 2012, 05:16 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Nov 6 2012, 05:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you get 2 fades using it you can basically stop marines from spawning by vortexing IPs. Its also one of the deadliest abilities against exos, allowing you to surround and finish them off with ease.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And they beacon... or do you Vortex that as well?
    Vortex both IPs... and the Obs... and presumably the phase gate as well?

    This is getting very unviable very fast...

    See now if you could Vortex the power... it might be worth its weight in salt, but then it would be a one-trick-pony and honestly I would rather see it replaced with something less gimmicky.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    <!--quoteo(post=2012210:date=Nov 5 2012, 09:16 PM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Nov 5 2012, 09:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012210"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->if you get 2 fades using it you can basically stop marines from spawning by vortexing IPs. Its also one of the deadliest abilities against exos, allowing you to surround and finish them off with ease.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    ? You cannot finish them off with ease while they are in the vortex? Neither side can hurt one another.

    It more often than not gives the marine a chance to recover the distance, reload etc.

    I love some of the ideas posted on these forums.. my favorite was one that selected ONE marine out of group as your sole combatant, making a fade able to pick off marines via 1v1 even if they are surrounded by other marines.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2012216:date=Nov 6 2012, 05:24 AM:name=ironhorse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ironhorse @ Nov 6 2012, 05:24 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012216"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love some of the ideas posted on these forums.. my favorite was one that selected ONE marine out of group as your sole combatant, making a fade able to pick off marines via 1v1 even if they are surrounded by other marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Best... Idea... Ever.... xD

    Challenge... FIGHT!
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    Im saying vortexing IPs during base attacks. If you manage to kill half the marines keeping them from spawning for even 5 seconds while you have other lifeforms attacking is a huge bonus. vortex leads to a lot of clutch gameplay moments. I recall a scrim where we won via a counter attack. The marines were weak after a failed attack, and with only a few fades and skulks to spare victory was taken by vortexing spawns. It is also extremely useful in ambushes, seperating the strong shotgun marines and exos from their weaker support units.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited November 2012
    But who gets separated, really? When I get vortexed I say thank you and run back to join more marines? I dont panic and.. run.. deeper into enemy territory by myself when given temporary safe passage, i run back to base with health and backup? :-D
  • MisterNubsMisterNubs Join Date: 2012-03-01 Member: 147912Members
    edited November 2012
    I rather the vortex, instead of shifting marines into another planar, it slows nearby marines and then after 2-3 seconds the vortex implodes dealing damage. It also damages structures.

    Or we can just have acid rocket back.

    I'm fine with either.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I love some of the ideas posted on these forums.. my favorite was one that selected ONE marine out of group as your sole combatant, making a fade able to pick off marines via 1v1 even if they are surrounded by other marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This one's nice too.
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2012228:date=Nov 6 2012, 05:32 AM:name=NeoRussia)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (NeoRussia @ Nov 6 2012, 05:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012228"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Im saying vortexing IPs during base attacks. If you manage to kill half the marines keeping them from spawning for even 5 seconds while you have other lifeforms attacking is a huge bonus. vortex leads to a lot of clutch gameplay moments. I recall a scrim where we won via a counter attack. The marines were weak after a failed attack, and with only a few fades and skulks to spare victory was taken by vortexing spawns. It is also extremely useful in ambushes, seperating the strong shotgun marines and exos from their weaker support units.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    You think you were useful as a Vortex fade?
    Just think how useful you could have been if you had used SWIPE!
  • NeoRussiaNeoRussia Join Date: 2012-08-04 Member: 154743Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2012241:date=Nov 6 2012, 01:38 AM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 6 2012, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012241"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You think you were useful as a Vortex fade?
    Just think how useful you could have been if you had used SWIPE!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yea, it won the game. And yes, I could have swipped twice in the time it took to cast vortex on both IPs.
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2012214:date=Nov 5 2012, 09:21 PM:name=PsympleJester)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PsympleJester @ Nov 5 2012, 09:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012214"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The phase gate AND the obs?
    With what energy are you able to Vortex the phase-gate AND the obs?

    You would probably jsut be better of being an onos... and destroying the base.



    And they beacon... or do you Vortex that as well?
    Vortex both IPs... and the Obs... and presumably the phase gate as well?

    This is getting very unviable very fast...

    See now if you could Vortex the power... it might be worth its weight in salt, but then it would be a one-trick-pony and honestly I would rather see it replaced with something less gimmicky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you have adrenaline you can actually vortex something 9 times consecutively. Only one vortex can be active per fade so you'd need 2 fades if they were far apart, but vortex does actually have a pretty decent range, I'd invite you to try it out.
  • hiloboyshiloboys Join Date: 2008-05-27 Member: 64340Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2012257:date=Nov 5 2012, 07:51 PM:name=Davil)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Davil @ Nov 5 2012, 07:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012257"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you have adrenaline you can actually vortex something 9 times consecutively. Only one vortex can be active per fade so you'd need 2 fades if they were far apart, but vortex does actually have a pretty decent range, I'd invite you to try it out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Wait so with adrenaline, I can keep lets say a really dumb "exo" (Lets say the player is too dumb to know to run back to base during this time) constantly in a vortex? o.O
  • DavilDavil Florida, USA Join Date: 2012-08-14 Member: 155602Members, Constellation
    <!--quoteo(post=2012764:date=Nov 6 2012, 07:41 AM:name=hiloboys)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hiloboys @ Nov 6 2012, 07:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012764"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Wait so with adrenaline, I can keep lets say a really dumb "exo" (Lets say the player is too dumb to know to run back to base during this time) constantly in a vortex? o.O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Not particularly likely, 9 times consecutively is only if you're waiting til the end of the previous vortex. Vortex does have a pretty high energy cost so doing it 3 times right away is the most you can get even with adrenaline. Against moving targets it's not particularly as useful unless you're just trying to cause panic or cover the escape of an onos.
  • tarquinbbtarquinbb Join Date: 2012-11-03 Member: 166314Members
    edited November 2012
    there are 2 shotgun marines, vortex 1 and kill the other. then kill the vortexed one when he pops back.

    there's an exo and a welder, vortex the exo then kill the welder then attack/flee from the exo... etc.


    imo it's amazing but noone is really comfortable enough with regular fade abilities to use it... also, fade should really have adrenaline trait already because you can move lightning speed with shadow step, double jump and blink - no need for celerity.

    it's unexplored... kinda like lerk with umbra, and skulk with xenocide (which explodes about 300% larger radius than a mine, and 50% more damage - albeit light damage - according to the wiki).
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited November 2012
    I only use the vortex in a few cases:

    - Vortex the EXO so you can clean up the welding crew
    - Vortex the IPs/Obs/PGs to stop those from doing their thing
    - Vortex incoming grenades or EXOs to negate their damage and give the team to close the gap


    Other than that, using it kinda hurts you as they can potentially move closer to their target (ARCs for instance)
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2012
    Vortex is, at best, very very situational. It just isn't a well-designed skill. Most of the ideas people have for it are pure theorycraft, that in practice are maybe marginally helpful even when perfectly executed. I'm not convinced there's any way to make Vortex as powerful as a Hive 3 ability should be without being insanely frustrating for the marines.
  • Exodus19Exodus19 Join Date: 2012-11-06 Member: 167601Members
    edited November 2012
    I've used it pretty good. Me as fade and a onos rushed an expansion base while the rines were assaulting a hive. I posted up next to the Obs while the onos hit the power. Waited for the becon and instantly vortexed. Got it 3 times and by the 3rd time the onos got the power down. Yay for winning.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    I think stopping a beacon is the only really viable use for it. It's quite easy to completely shut down the obs no matter how hard they try to beacon, maybe too easy. That's not self-explanatory at all though, how is the average player supposed to figure out that dropping a vortex after the beacon begins will prevent it from finishing?

    I think the skill just needs to be completely reworked. As a brainstorm, what about this idea: rename Vortex to Wormhole. The fade can drop two wormholes at a time, and as long as they're up, any alien can jump in one and be teleported to the other. They have unlimited duration, but will be closed if a marine touches it. It could be used to set up long-term shortcuts for his team, or coordinated carefully to drop aliens into the middle of a base.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    Zek what about the idea above that i reposted?
    Makes the fades scale late late game, take out welding marines, makes it an intense meta game, and doesnt remove player input (which can be sooo frustrating) as they can duke it out in the ethereal world.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    That could be interesting, though it seems kind of complicated. It would need a lot of special rules to prevent abusive scenarios, like marking the Exo and then hiding around a corner to effectively disable him for however long.
  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    I find vortex very usefull. I experienced games in which the aliens couldn't destroy the last rine base untill vortex came into play. One time we wanted to assault the server hive. There were a full base and one dual exo keeping the aliens out of the base. They bunched together in the back near the CC. I placed 3 vortex into them phasing out the Exo and 4 rines. That was enough to rush the power and kill them off afterwards. Yes I was lucky that they grouped up so nicely, but before vortex, the dual exo was slaughtering onos together with the rest of the rines.

    It is also perfect to take out a remote base together with a single skulk IF they have no obs. Vortex the pg and wait for the power to go down. There are also a lot of comms who build the IPs next to each other -> one vortex and they are forced to phase back or beacon. I loose some energy, they ten res or several rines at the front line. As posted above, it was also usefull to vortex an exo untill the onos can close in and kill it. Just attack from behind and the exo at the unreachable end of the long corridor is confronted with angry aliens in his face. Sure, that doesn't have to work. But that is the important thing about vortex, it gives you an alternative in certain situations. The best and viable example is the vortexed obs that delays the beacon right in time for the power to go down.

    The most important thing is to know when it is usefull and when it means your fade's death. It is tricky to use but has without a question great potential.
  • hiloboyshiloboys Join Date: 2008-05-27 Member: 64340Members
    I was testing Vortex about an hour ago and found out you can vortex the comm chair. o.O either the marine was forced out of it or he exited. (He wouldnt respond to me when I did it on his comm chair and raped him before he could get back in.) Unfortunately he rage quitted the game so I am not sure what happened. Can anyone confirm/deny that it forces the comm out of their comm chair? And if it doesn't what does it do to the comm?
  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
    Vortex is 30+30+40 res right?
    3rd hive + previous research

    I'm going to be honest. . . I don't think any of the Tier 3 alien abilities are powerful enough for their cost

    Gorge doesn't even have a Tier 3

    Maybe Vortex should only pull 1 marine in and the fade for a 1v1 like people are suggesting
    Or have Vortex be a warp back to the nearest hive
    I'd love to see the fade pull marines into a nest of whips
  • PsympleJesterPsympleJester Join Date: 2008-04-06 Member: 64024Members
    <!--quoteo(post=2012955:date=Nov 6 2012, 06:14 PM:name=MaximumSquid)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MaximumSquid @ Nov 6 2012, 06:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2012955"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Maybe Vortex should only pull 1 marine in and the fade for a 1v1 like people are suggesting
    Or have Vortex be a warp back to the nearest hive
    I'd love to see the fade pull marines into a nest of whips<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That was my idea! :D
  • OutlawDrOutlawDr Join Date: 2009-06-21 Member: 67887Members
    Give fades something else for T3

    Move vortex to shades. Have it replace shades's hallucination ability.
  • MaximumSquidMaximumSquid Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
    <u><b>OutlawDr:</b></u>

    Actually I'm going to be honest this is the best idea I've seen yet. . .

    Watching a train of hallucinations go poof when they get scanned is really bad
  • xDragonxDragon Join Date: 2012-04-04 Member: 149948Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow
    edited November 2012
    That is a ridiculously bad idea, basically late game would be nothing but alien commanders making the entire marine team sit in bubbles. Not to mention that vortex is already a very unintuative abilitiy in that it makes you unable to damage what enters in, despite sounding like an abilitiy to just draw things in.
  • OutlawDrOutlawDr Join Date: 2009-06-21 Member: 67887Members
    Then change the sound. The ability will cost res to activate, so if alien comm wants to spend his res spam vacuuming in marines with his op vortex then let him. Effectiveness of vortex and res cost is subject to balance.
    Heck, a good reason to go shade is needed right now.
  • BicsumBicsum Join Date: 2012-02-27 Member: 147596Members, Reinforced - Gold
    I would not mind if they removed it completely and gave us step stab back.

    I miss it.
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