<!--quoteo(post=2013479:date=Nov 7 2012, 01:46 AM:name=Xender)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xender @ Nov 7 2012, 01:46 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013479"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I play almost 10 hours and i didn't saw any vertical map. This will be really if you add maps with few levels, elevators and stairs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Level over level is difficult, you have to imagine that the map has to be viewed from Top Down by the commander, thus having overlapping levels means that commander cannot see the bottom levels. As well as this if your map has too much height distance then you end up with areas of the map being closer to the commanders view camera than others. One of the problems in NS1 was that a few maps where so tall the commanders view camera could not actually see them due to them being above the camera.
commander should see one level per moment but should can instantly change levels of view by pressing - and + at numeric keyboard. Other solutions is letting commanding to few peoples, one commander per level.
<!--quoteo(post=2013487:date=Nov 7 2012, 12:52 PM:name=biz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (biz @ Nov 7 2012, 12:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013487"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->they could still have more vertical action even if rooms never overlap<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This will potentially unbalance gameplay a bit, as the vertical gameplay means the cysts cannot be placed in a linked path unless there was an alternative access route.
In NS1 it wasn't as bad as Aliens didn't have a Comm. NS2 with 2 comms you need to consider both sides viewing the entire gamefield top-down equally easy.
It does seem odd that ll maps are 1 level. It would give great potential and maybe more fun also to aliens if maps had more height.
Every time i play and i see the cities well or other structures background out of some of the windows on maps. I always wonder, why isnt there like a skyscraper like map, where you are in this tall building or something, running around in multiple floors inside and outside on the building. you fall off well bye bye xD
Kinda like that map from Unreal Tournament where it was flying in space. those sort of maps are awesome, albiet NS2 maps again need more height.
something they should look at is that Marines go in the vents, there should be places only aliens can go.
<!--quoteo(post=2013527:date=Nov 6 2012, 07:29 PM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Nov 6 2012, 07:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013527"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This will potentially unbalance gameplay a bit, as the vertical gameplay means the cysts cannot be placed in a linked path unless there was an alternative access route.
In NS1 it wasn't as bad as Aliens didn't have a Comm. NS2 with 2 comms you need to consider both sides viewing the entire gamefield top-down equally easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that already a mechanic? Like in the mines. You can't place a cyst on the sorting room platform from the side of the room. You have to build up the stairs.
The game would be like that, you would just place cysts that follow the stairs up.
<!--quoteo(post=2013595:date=Nov 7 2012, 02:44 PM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 7 2012, 02:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013595"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Isn't that already a mechanic? Like in the mines. You can't place a cyst on the sorting room platform from the side of the room. You have to build up the stairs.
The game would be like that, you would just place cysts that follow the stairs up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but that's only a short distance. if you have say... an elevator. Why would you bother to take that knowning that 1: it's going to be trapped like hell! 2: the stairs / ramp around the back are far easier to get to and up the top.
<!--quoteo(post=2013613:date=Nov 6 2012, 09:02 PM:name=Daworm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Daworm @ Nov 6 2012, 09:02 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013613"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes but that's only a short distance. if you have say... an elevator. Why would you bother to take that knowning that 1: it's going to be trapped like hell! 2: the stairs / ramp around the back are far easier to get to and up the top.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... maybe an elevator is just a bad idea then :D
I can see this working for maps with stairs and ramps though.
<!--quoteo(post=2013618:date=Nov 7 2012, 03:05 PM:name=Blindga)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Blindga @ Nov 7 2012, 03:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013618"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well... maybe an elevator is just a bad idea then :D
I can see this working for maps with stairs and ramps though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed.
Thinking about it, there are already some maps with this in mind... mineshaft for example with the ladder that you have to cyst all the way up around the corner to get up the top on.
I am designing a map that so far has three levels. Stairs is not a problem, but placing an elevator strategically to make it fair for both factions and without turning it into a choking point takes a bit of skill in NS level design. The most important issue about Y alignment, is that rooms can not be placed on top of another. The reason for that, is that if one room is placed on top of another room, the kharaa and human commander will not be able to view, build, or alert of anything in the rooms below.
The best that we can do is make it look as if there is more than one level, although, that is not easy because a lot of people spend their time learning the map by looking at the minimap in which it looks as if the map is flat. An example of this is ns2_veil, which I'm sure that most of you have already played.
But I agree about one thing, if the UWE dev team is interested in new ideas they should look into "placing cysts on walls" and "switching between floors" when it comes to commanding. It is not a bad idea at all.
<!--quoteo(post=2013647:date=Nov 7 2012, 03:34 PM:name=Regn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Regn @ Nov 7 2012, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2013647"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I am designing a map that so far has three levels.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Want a play-tester? :)
Also: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Map_Index" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Map_Index</a> if you haven't yet. :P
Comments
Level over level is difficult, you have to imagine that the map has to be viewed from Top Down by the commander, thus having overlapping levels means that commander cannot see the bottom levels. As well as this if your map has too much height distance then you end up with areas of the map being closer to the commanders view camera than others. One of the problems in NS1 was that a few maps where so tall the commanders view camera could not actually see them due to them being above the camera.
This will potentially unbalance gameplay a bit, as the vertical gameplay means the cysts cannot be placed in a linked path unless there was an alternative access route.
In NS1 it wasn't as bad as Aliens didn't have a Comm.
NS2 with 2 comms you need to consider both sides viewing the entire gamefield top-down equally easy.
Every time i play and i see the cities well or other structures background out of some of the windows on maps. I always wonder, why isnt there like a skyscraper like map, where you are in this tall building or something, running around in multiple floors inside and outside on the building. you fall off well bye bye xD
Kinda like that map from Unreal Tournament where it was flying in space. those sort of maps are awesome, albiet NS2 maps again need more height.
something they should look at is that Marines go in the vents, there should be places only aliens can go.
NS2 game mode can't do this due to the commander view.
But mods like the combat mod it doesn't matter and vertical maps are fine like the one in the link above.
In NS1 it wasn't as bad as Aliens didn't have a Comm.
NS2 with 2 comms you need to consider both sides viewing the entire gamefield top-down equally easy.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Isn't that already a mechanic? Like in the mines. You can't place a cyst on the sorting room platform from the side of the room. You have to build up the stairs.
The game would be like that, you would just place cysts that follow the stairs up.
The game would be like that, you would just place cysts that follow the stairs up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes but that's only a short distance. if you have say... an elevator. Why would you bother to take that knowning that
1: it's going to be trapped like hell!
2: the stairs / ramp around the back are far easier to get to and up the top.
1: it's going to be trapped like hell!
2: the stairs / ramp around the back are far easier to get to and up the top.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well... maybe an elevator is just a bad idea then :D
I can see this working for maps with stairs and ramps though.
I can see this working for maps with stairs and ramps though.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Indeed.
Thinking about it, there are already some maps with this in mind... mineshaft for example with the ladder that you have to cyst all the way up around the corner to get up the top on.
and it works. :)
The best that we can do is make it look as if there is more than one level, although, that is not easy because a lot of people spend their time learning the map by looking at the minimap in which it looks as if the map is flat. An example of this is ns2_veil, which I'm sure that most of you have already played.
But I agree about one thing, if the UWE dev team is interested in new ideas they should look into "placing cysts on walls" and "switching between floors" when it comes to commanding. It is not a bad idea at all.
Want a play-tester? :)
Also: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Map_Index" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Map_Index</a> if you haven't yet. :P
Map was designed like a pyramid. Excellent exploration of the verticality theme.