Thoughts On ARCs?
Bullet_Force
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165952Members
Join Date: 2012-11-02 Member: 165952Members
Not sure about anyone else but the ability of these things too shoot through walls and their high resilience to damage seems a little unfair. I often see a train of these things moving around the map unguarded. A tempting target to attack except that it takes a skulk a good 1 minute just to kill one, they seem to have the same hit points as an onos but at cost of 15 res.
I think it would be better if they were a bit more vulnerable so they couldn't just travel about like they do at present with no one even caring to guard them.
I think it would be better if they were a bit more vulnerable so they couldn't just travel about like they do at present with no one even caring to guard them.
Comments
I think the cost to upgrade the Robotics Bay and time needed to do so is a bit heavy right now
45 res for your first ARC and they are junk if you don't spend another 15 for an obs
The +3 res per scan gets expensive fast
So lets say you have 2 ARCs and need to scan a hive to kill it we're looking at a total cost of 90-100 res depending on gorges
<i>(a very similiar cost for the Echo Whip strategy only not quite as bad; notably both need to be reduced in cost)</i>
That's way too much. . .
What I'd like to see is an upgrade for ARCs that lets them become a detector like an observatory
The cost for this upgrade could be the same as an obs, but take a while to research
This along with the initial upgrade and time to advanced robotics being reduced could see ARCs become an early game strat instead of the "My team is broke, but we own the whole map and can't win" scenario
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I think the cost to upgrade the Robotics Bay and time needed to do so is a bit heavy right now
45 res for your first ARC and they are junk if you don't spend another 15 for an obs
The +3 res per scan gets expensive fast
So lets say you have 2 ARCs and need to scan a hive to kill it we're looking at a total cost of 90-100 res depending on gorges
<i>(a very similiar cost for the Echo Whip strategy only not quite as bad; notably both need to be reduced in cost)</i>
That's way too much. . .
What I'd like to see is an upgrade for ARCs that lets them become a detector like an observatory
The cost for this upgrade could be the same as an obs, but take a while to research
This along with the initial upgrade and time to advanced robotics being reduced could see ARCs become an early game strat instead of the "My team is broke, but we own the whole map and can't win" scenario
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They are rarely seen early game so the cost thing isn't really a problem. They are ridiculously good for what they do if used correctly. I'm not even suggesting to nerf their wall hacking rather just nerf their HP so they at least have to be guarded while doing their thing.
Couldn't agree more. Aliens have nothing like this to counter Marines. This means even with one Marine base where your team owns the rest of the map it requires quite some effort to finally finish the game as Aliens.
Because an ARC train looks bad, clipping into each other all the time.
Because you can't balance the damage and health of 1 ARC vs 6 ARCs.
Because they would really matter if you only can have 1 or 2 at a time.
Because it wouldn't clutter up the whole way the com interacts with them.
It would create so much more fun in this whole ARC mechanic and finally introduce those "Escort the slow ARC to the hive"-missions.
2. The alien-team needs upgrades for whips and hydras that matter. This way their defense can actually be called one. Upgrades, because it shouldn't interfere with the early game, where ACRs and GLs aren't ready yet. But in the late game they should become powerful enough to create a need for ARCs and GLs.
While you put 5 arcs just outside a hive and ping it 2-3 times it's dead. 5 gorges can do the exact same thing with bile bomb and they only cost 10 res each.
You see them when comm feels like spamming them in already decided late games to drive in and assault last hive point blank. Or spamming them late game to turtle and drag out last base by denying alien support structures.
Do this:
-Decrease their damage
-Increase their range.
-implement build requirements that prevent late game turtle bases from constructing them (such as 2 CCs, or 2-3 RTs...something a turtle base can not meet).
-stop the spam
EDIT: for their range, increase their radius range, but also have a pathing range requirement. That way ARCS set up in odd areas can NOT blast buildings half way across the map. This would save map makers from having to redo all their maps to account for the increased radius range.
Their ability to do damage varies from map to map, on maps like docking they are stupidly OP, tram they work very well and others pretty average.
Their ability in my mind comes from being able to siege from areas of significant distance from the hive.
(Onos Bar -> Locker rooms, North Tunnels -> Warehouse)
However its most important that you use FORWARD robo factories in order to not leave your arcs vulnerable as they cross the map and to get it right first time. Sinking res into a do or die strategy is risky, but it has returns, I always use 3 arcs when I siege: That way 4 shots end up killing the hive (I think). If these arcs survive they can then roll on to the next hive and bring down a second quite easily on some maps.
Overall I like them exactly where they are, more range would just be stupidly OP and less damage would make them pointless.
Limiting the number is pointless since Bilebomb is literally a hard counter to arcs in most hives... All you do by spamming more is increase the number of resources you waste, for teams who don't care about being able to spam 12 arcs and still have enough res to spam shotguns and get upgrades... does it matter? They have obviously already won the game.
I think I speak for a lot of players when I say that escorting slow useless NPCs is about the most frustrating thing in the universe. I think the fact that ARCs need to be escorted is half the reason you don't see them used. It isn't a fun mechanic
I actually happen to enjoy escorting ARCs because it's a variable experience. Their slow movement speed creates a lot of tension for the Marine escort, because you have no idea what is coming.
In games vs the AI, you pretty much have an idea of what's coming so it's just a matter of waiting it out.
I agree, escorting ARCs is a laborious process that marines(and the commander) really don't enjoy. If they're made powerful enough to be rewarding for that time investment, that's not fun for the aliens either. I think it should be cheaper/faster to build a robo factory outside a hive and produce ARCs there. The mobility would then be handy for repositioning them, but not the primary way to get them to the hive. This is effectively how things were in NS1 and we know that model worked, siege cannons were used all the time. ARCs do the same thing and yet you never see them, that's not a coincidence.
Maybe for this purpose MACs should be removed from the robo factory so you don't need to build one in your own base?
Every single thing there makes marines boring to play against. Ignoring balance, they are all just fun-vampires.
Yeah. I keep yelling at gorges 'press 3!!'. Still, its incredibly disheartening to hear turrets in every room... to see an ARC train...
MACs aren't bad with the limit.
This, a thousand times this.
Also, lol @ marines whining about something being frustrating and slow. The marine tactical game is currently as deep as the Aral Sea.