NS2 Custom Models Question.

Evil_Ice

<div class="IPBDescription">Old time NS1 custom content modeler interested in customizing NS2</div>Hey all, long time since the golden days of NS1!

I used to make alot of models for NS1, I worked with a community called NSArmsLab back in like 2003-2004 I think and made many custom models and animations for NS1 such as a lightsaber, dual HMG cannons, revolver pistol, new knives, new grenades, and even a huge total conversion cel-shaded model/texture pack that was wildly popular for quite a while. Point is, I would like to consider putting some time into making custom NS2 models and animations to bring some of the longevity of the original up to the sequel, but I have some concerns.

I can model, uvw map, generate/bake high poly normal maps, texture, rig, and animate, however, I can't seem to find any valid source file for the view model marine arms, or for that matter any method of decompiling any of the model files to obtain some of the delicious reference meshes to be re-purposed in new customizations. Is there any chance I have overlooked something, maybe a hidden source file folder for meshes, or a method of decompiling them? I admittedly haven't payed the Spark engine it's due share of attention until now, but I think with a little assistance I could make good use of it all, and in the process provide some support for the development and longevity of the game.

Any direction in this matter would be greatly appreciated, thanks for your time!

-Evil_Ice


[edit: here are some really old screenshots (low resolution) of old NS1 models I made almost a decade ago! Nostalgia...

<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/NewHandRigSshot02.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/NewHandRigSshot02.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ns_orbital_cal0001.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ns_orbital_cal0001.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ns_tanith0002.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ns_tanith0002.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/NottAxeSShot01.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/NottAxeSShot01.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/FTLOW_Knife02.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/FTLOW_Knife02.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/NS_Dual_HMG.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/NS_Dual_HMG.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/SoulEdgeSshot11.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/SoulEdgeSshot11.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/SoulEdgeSshot12.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/SoulEdgeSshot12.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/HP_Pistol_sshot05.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/HP_Pistol_sshot05.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/Cowboy_sshot12.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/Cowboy_sshot12.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/HPMarine01.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/HPMarine01.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/MQ30CPKnife_Sshot04.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/MQ30CPKnife_Sshot04.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ColtSAA_MeltDown01.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ColtSAA_MeltDown01.jpg</a>
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ColtSAA_MeltDown02.jpg" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/CS/ColtSAA_MeltDown02.jpg</a>
All really really old models... so granted take into consideration almost a decade of technological advances and personal experience to match.]

Wilson

Unfortunately, I don't think you can decompile the model files. I hope UWE release a decompiler or at least some sample source files. It's pretty frustrating to be limited by the animations and tags as they are set up for NS2 with no way of altering them. I also have no idea how the player animations are set up in 3dsmax. The legs move in the direction you are pressing, but all the animations are combined into one within the viewer. It sucks that there is no way to mod this stuff right now and you basically need to start from scratch with your own models.

Evil_Ice

Well I know HOW the animations work together, the system is using a series of blended animations and bone controllers, akin to how Valve did with the Source engine. For that matter the whole system is EXTREMELY similar to the Source engine content creation process, albeit newer and not as well documented yet.

I'm not even necessarily going to go as far as to request a decompiler, because I know that won't retain any of the good parts ANYWAY, such as the rigging and IK, or any other wire parameters used in animation. I also won't even say that I really need the original source files either, I can make up some new animation rigs and re-weight the arms to a new skeleton at they least, I'm just cautious of what side-effects that may incur on this particular engine if the skeletal lengths or rotational orientations don't match up when a controller or blended effect is modified, it could lead to some pretty horrendously ugly deformations.

The BEST thing they could do, although very few companies do this, is release a package of 3DSM 2009 .max source files, complete with rigging and all, this would also bypass any risks of breaking smoothing groups and potentially ruining the normal maps because of it, not to mention UVW budging that could potentially cause those aweful texture misalignments!

All I'd REALLY like is maybe a reference file or two, not even asking for the animation source files, because if they are anything like me, that's a few hundred gigs of backups and alternate file iterations for everything, but I'd like the intact reference mesh and maybe, just maybe the rigging to go with it.

Looking forward to hearing if we can get any reply on this, I don't see any serious mods outside of reskins and LUA code being possible until this happens, and the sooner they provide something the sooner a community can form to support such customizations.

Celcio

No joke, I was just about to start a new thread on exactly the same topic today, but then I saw this one pop up!

I whole-heartedly second everything that Evil_Ice said. A source file or two would save modelers and animators untold hours of struggle and headaches trying to set animations up properly.

I'd also love to be able to export content into the engine without having to dig up an older copy of max (speaking for those of us with 64-bit 2011 and 2012). Has somebody found an answer to this collada exporter problem yet? I've tried the openCOLLADA plugin for 64-bit 2011, but it only seems to export vertices without face/normal information.

Evil_Ice

Yes... Would at least love a mod/dev response on this on whether there is even going to be an ETA on this sort of thing.

Celcio

Yeah, I hope someone can help us out. They did, after all, release all of their game code, so they must have just not had the time to get around to it.

Spark, let me love you!

ChaosXBeing

They have a Q&A every Tuesday, might be a nice thing to ask about then.

fearian

Yeah I've been wondering the same thing. Does anyone know if there's a way to parent items to a character in the same way the jetpack works? I'm thinking for example, add grenade bandoleer to a player with a grenade launcher and so on.

Evil_Ice

I'd love to ask them during a live Q&A and get a real response, but I'm also currently stationed in Germany, so the six hour minimum time-zone difference hinders things a bit, not to mention needing that precious sleep for work the next day. Either someone else will have to ask them on my behalf, or even better, one of them could hit up this thread with some answers.

eh?

Chances are you would probably get a faster more direct answer if you just email:
edit:sure

Being that brian is the technical artist and would be the one to prepare any max files for public release if he was told to do so or was permitted to do so. I have no idea what their stance on releasing something like that would be, but still he would be the one who deals with it.

Evil_Ice

Thanks for that info eh?, but I would recommend please removing the email address from the post so that it isn't subject to bot scans for junk mail, granted they probably do have filters and all, but courtesy.

Chops

Hi guys, thanks for the emails.

Yea, this is definitely on my list of things I really want to help with. I've been pushing for tool improvements and a more inclusive exporter (not just max 2009) to make the process for getting your own models into the game easier for everyone. These things will be in the works soon but in the mean-time there are a few things I can do to help support the modding community with custom modeling and animating guides. I did get approval to share a view model file with animations so i'll whip something up.

This is what I still want to make tutorials for:
Using Builder <i>-DONE</i>
Using the Viewer <i>-Needs a revisit</i>
Exporting Models <i>-DONE</i>
Creating Model Compile Files <i>-DONE</i>
Creating Custom Textures <i>-DONE</i>
Creating Material Files <i>-Needs a revisit</i>
Creating a Custom Shader
Exporting Physics Meshes
Creating Animations for Spark Models
Creating an Animation Graph
Creating a Marine View Model
Creating an Alien View Model
Creating a Ragdoll for Spark

goblin

goblin likes this

Celcio

Celcio really really likes this. Thanks Brian!

Katana314

Would creating Source models be under the same tasklist, vaguely? (Mainly, the issue being getting them in some neutral 3D format).

I don't expect anyone to port the game, but generally once a model (from any game) gets into Source, the machinima opportunities expand quite a lot.

Evil_Ice

Thanks for the positive and informative response Brian! I greatly appreciate you taking the time to not only put together those community tutorials, but also to break from that schedule to help those of us that may be jumping the gun, so the speak. With that said, I have received a view_model source file from Brian, for the LMG in max 2009 format, and the OK to redistribute it to others looking to get into some view model replacements. This includes the rifle_view base max file with almost all of the animations in the single reference, the firing animation source file (only one referenced in a separate file), and the .model_compile file.

This file also includes ALL original rigging... this is actually pretty insightful and entertaining to look through all of the old and outdated bits as well. I may even take it upon myself to go through and clean out all the old bits that are not longer in use or referenced in the compile code or game-code, but I'll wait until I have a much more solid understanding of what each of the 187 helpers and shapes do for the animations and code haha.

This ALSO includes a bit of old mesh too! Including the old (possibly still underconsideration?) side-mounted grenade launcher for the LMG, it was even animated apparently, so this had some serious thought going into it before it was canned, or set aside for later. Maybe this was going to be a replacement for the NS1 hand grenade? The timing and easy of access to the LMG before and after the grenade make it a very likely candidate, not to mention the ability to "research" the side mounted grenade launcher for LMG... this would also remove the shotgun/grenade and grenade-launcher/grenade combo possibilities that may be considered less balanced... hmm...

With that said I went ahead and popped open the max file, and the model_compile file, and did a bit of delving and research for the benefit of the community to save a WHOLE LOT of questions from less experienced game modelers, so with that I'm going to put up a second post in this thread addressing how to go about manipulating and utilizing the rifle source file and the model_compile file, and do my best to explain everything I see from a quick glance, and probably enough to get everyone on the same page if they wanted to make some animation modifications or the like!

For the time being, until I get the full on "go-ahead" to upload and publicly redistribute the source file, just PM me here for a link to where I have reuploaded the file! Stay tuned for second explanatory post.

Magneto

<!--quoteo(post=2017309:date=Nov 9 2012, 06:47 PM:name=Chops)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chops @ Nov 9 2012, 06:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2017309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Hi guys, thanks for the emails.

Yea, this is definitely on my list of things I really want to help with. I've been pushing for tool improvements and a more inclusive exporter (not just max 2009) to make the process for getting your own models into the game easier for everyone. These things will be in the works soon but in the mean-time there are a few things I can do to help support the modding community with custom modeling and animating guides. I did get approval to share a view model file with animations so i'll whip something up.

This is what I still want to make tutorials for:

<i><b>Creating Material Files
Creating a Custom Shader</b></i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I hope these two are next, i worked out some stuff myself but now i want to make a nice shader and i have no idea how...

Wilson

The grenade launcher built onto the side of the LMG was in the alpha/beta for a long time. It was only quite late in development they decided to make it into a separate weapon.

I managed to get a few viewmodels working correctly by merging all the animations into one file but I didn't know you could reference multiple files like you said they did with the rifle firing animation. I will PM you for the source files because it might save me some time in the future.

Kurrine

<!--coloro:#aadd00--><span style="color:#aadd00"><!--/coloro-->Well this is exciting to see! I was a regular user of the various high poly models for NS. Though some consistency checking forced me to keep two versions of NS to allow me play of certain servers. At least that whole situation is a bit simpler in NS2.<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc-->

Evil_Ice

Sorry I haven't had as much time as I had hoped prior, so I haven't gotten around to writing up a little guide or anything yet, but I did have a few minutes to dabble a bit with the files and explore the processes, and delve into the systems in place used by the NS2 team for their animations and the like.

I did a small hackjob of the LMG as a test of mesh manipulation, reference manipulation, and animation altering as well, again just to get a better understanding of it all. I can't seem to locate the .dds plugins from nvidia for PS, apparently their dev center is down(?!?!) so I didn't want to model any new mesh objects without being able to skin them myself.

So what I ended up with is a compact LMG hack. It turns the LMG into a sub machine gun. Complete with vertical grip animations, no butt-stock, greatly altered front-end, and a new/altered melee attack!

Video:
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CLa6L_QA0o&feature=youtu.be" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CLa6L_QA0o...eature=youtu.be</a>

here's a video clip of the LMG in-game, I'm an idiot and forgot to melee at any point in the video, but it's a nice touch as well, I took and modified one of the older unused attacks and it fits the SMG concept perfectly.

Here is a download link for the Compact LMG if you wanna try it, and I do encourage it! You can either make it into a little mod by extracting the contents to your "Natural Selection 2" folder, and making a new NS2 shortcut with a link like so:
"D:\Steam\steamapps\common\Natural Selection 2\NS2.exe" -game CompactLMG
or if you are feeling more direct, you can just put the files directly in your default models directly!

Download:
<a href="http://ice.annihilation.info/NS2/CompactLMG.rar" target="_blank">http://ice.annihilation.info/NS2/CompactLMG.rar</a>

I'll get back to everyone with a fun little hack tutorial or something when I get an opportunity, until then enjoy!

[edit: pics for anyone curious, but not quite ready to download]

<img src="http://ice.annihilation.info/NS2/CompactLMG01.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="http://ice.annihilation.info/NS2/CompactLMG02.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Added some "iron-sights" (I ripped the little bits off the foregrip and put them on top =p)
<img src="http://ice.annihilation.info/NS2/CompactLMG03.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

Maxunit

This model edit is ace! I really like it :D Well done, well done. I made a backup from the original rifle folder and replaced the original model files with this one.

Maybe someone can implement it as an additional weapon, next to the LMG.

It has a slight "hickup" tho at the end of the reload animation, or maybe a mod, which I have active, is causing this.