<!--quoteo(post=2015844:date=Nov 8 2012, 05:16 PM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Nov 8 2012, 05:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2015844"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's two errors in your reasoning.
First, there's no such thing as GG etiquette. Everything you say after that in the topmost quote doesn't exist. You're making it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you're making that up. Do you think Starcraft has an official etiquette rule book or something? Etiquette is little more than a social convention (although some tournaments have had a rule that you're disqualified if you don't say it).
This is how I perceive the use of GG in NS2(or the lack thereof), and I'm certainly not alone in that, thus the etiquette is real. Whether or not you care what I think of you is your concern.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Second, your definition of a fair game is waaaaaayyyy off. If you pit a grandmaster against a beginner, it is not a fair game. They can play by the rules, neither one cheats, but it still doesn't become a fair game. I don't know if I can explain it, because there is a line to be drawn. I'll try: Skill is an asset just as much as any other advantage. If you have an overwhelming amount of it, the game becomes unfair.
The line is where the beginner has so little chance of ever achieving anything against the grandmaster, that he doesn't get to improve, because there is nothing to improve upon - he doesn't even get to try before being annihilated. There's no challenge for the beginner, because he's being crushed, and there's no challenge for the grandmaster, because he is owning someone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's perfectly fair - you both agreed to play a game of skill, and his skill was far superior so he won. Maybe you had no chance of victory from the start, but that's irrelevant, you show him respect anyway if you're polite. You could also just storm out of the room in a huff if you prefer, but either way you are making a statement to your opponent. I can understand withholding a GG if Archaea invades your pub server and intentionally team stacks or something - it's your choice whether or not they deserve being treated rudely, but your average team that's only guilty of beating you in a video game doesn't.
So in favor of getting to say gg at the end of every single game, you're willing to trivialize it to any level?
Yeah, we'll see whose version of gg will end up being used by "the average team". My gg, which means having a good game, or your gg, which means BEING POLITE AND SHOWING RESPECT IN A GAME OF SKILL.
Taking bets, ladies and gentlemen, one at a time, please...
In the meantime, please don't berate the poor soul who thinks words mean what the dictionary says they do.
<!--quoteo(post=2015469:date=Nov 8 2012, 10:06 AM:name=Mestaritonttu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mestaritonttu @ Nov 8 2012, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2015469"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's just dumb.
"not give a ######, and realize it's all for fun."
But you had no fun. And if you don't give a sh*t, what's the point of saying GG? Obviously not because the game was good.
"It's just customary."
No, it's not. You're making it customary because you like to think you're being polite or above them or something. You can keep doing that, but nobody can see your agenda behind your gg. They will just see you gg:ing after getting absolutely annihilated and think you're dumb or sarcastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Just because you dont have fun losing doesn't mean other people are the same. I laugh at my deaths, and im the only one smiling when we're losing. I never join spec, I fight it out until the end. Everybody takes games way too serious it seems, even if we're getting owned I'm still having fun. The game is whatever you make it. If you get pissed at losing then there's probably an underlying reason you react that way.
If you read over the posts in this thread you'll see a lot are on the same wavelength as me, gg has absolutely nothing to do with thinking im "above them" or anything close to that. I'll say lets agree to disagree, as I don't think you understand where I'm(we're) coming from. I don't mean this in a negative way.
Losing or winning is irrelevant to this discussion. One side loses every game, obviously gg isn't dependent on this, don't make it sound like I said it was.
"even if we're getting owned I'm still having fun."
This is where we do differ. If I don't have a fighting chance, I'm not having fun. Getting owned means you don't have a fighting chance. A good game for me is one where BOTH SIDES are challenged. If there is no challenge, it's turns into a mechanical task that you just perform. Awesome if you can derive fun out of something like that, I bet you love working too. :)
As for posts in this thread, it's about 50/50 on the issue. Refer to my post above for thoughts on which side will prevail.
Comments
First, there's no such thing as GG etiquette. Everything you say after that in the topmost quote doesn't exist. You're making it up.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
No, you're making that up. Do you think Starcraft has an official etiquette rule book or something? Etiquette is little more than a social convention (although some tournaments have had a rule that you're disqualified if you don't say it).
This is how I perceive the use of GG in NS2(or the lack thereof), and I'm certainly not alone in that, thus the etiquette is real. Whether or not you care what I think of you is your concern.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Second, your definition of a fair game is waaaaaayyyy off. If you pit a grandmaster against a beginner, it is not a fair game. They can play by the rules, neither one cheats, but it still doesn't become a fair game. I don't know if I can explain it, because there is a line to be drawn. I'll try: Skill is an asset just as much as any other advantage. If you have an overwhelming amount of it, the game becomes unfair.
The line is where the beginner has so little chance of ever achieving anything against the grandmaster, that he doesn't get to improve, because there is nothing to improve upon - he doesn't even get to try before being annihilated. There's no challenge for the beginner, because he's being crushed, and there's no challenge for the grandmaster, because he is owning someone.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's perfectly fair - you both agreed to play a game of skill, and his skill was far superior so he won. Maybe you had no chance of victory from the start, but that's irrelevant, you show him respect anyway if you're polite. You could also just storm out of the room in a huff if you prefer, but either way you are making a statement to your opponent. I can understand withholding a GG if Archaea invades your pub server and intentionally team stacks or something - it's your choice whether or not they deserve being treated rudely, but your average team that's only guilty of beating you in a video game doesn't.
Yeah, we'll see whose version of gg will end up being used by "the average team". My gg, which means having a good game, or your gg, which means BEING POLITE AND SHOWING RESPECT IN A GAME OF SKILL.
Taking bets, ladies and gentlemen, one at a time, please...
In the meantime, please don't berate the poor soul who thinks words mean what the dictionary says they do.
"not give a ######, and realize it's all for fun."
But you had no fun. And if you don't give a sh*t, what's the point of saying GG? Obviously not because the game was good.
"It's just customary."
No, it's not. You're making it customary because you like to think you're being polite or above them or something. You can keep doing that, but nobody can see your agenda behind your gg. They will just see you gg:ing after getting absolutely annihilated and think you're dumb or sarcastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just because you dont have fun losing doesn't mean other people are the same. I laugh at my deaths, and im the only one smiling when we're losing. I never join spec, I fight it out until the end. Everybody takes games way too serious it seems, even if we're getting owned I'm still having fun. The game is whatever you make it. If you get pissed at losing then there's probably an underlying reason you react that way.
If you read over the posts in this thread you'll see a lot are on the same wavelength as me, gg has absolutely nothing to do with thinking im "above them" or anything close to that. I'll say lets agree to disagree, as I don't think you understand where I'm(we're) coming from. I don't mean this in a negative way.
"even if we're getting owned I'm still having fun."
This is where we do differ. If I don't have a fighting chance, I'm not having fun. Getting owned means you don't have a fighting chance. A good game for me is one where BOTH SIDES are challenged. If there is no challenge, it's turns into a mechanical task that you just perform. Awesome if you can derive fun out of something like that, I bet you love working too. :)
As for posts in this thread, it's about 50/50 on the issue. Refer to my post above for thoughts on which side will prevail.