Field Armories
Bad Mojo
Join Date: 2009-05-01 Member: 67317Members
Join Date: 2009-05-01 Member: 67317Members
I've come to notice that one of the most effective tactics marines can employ is simply dropping an armory outside of a hive or other alien held area and just lock all skulks from being able to leave that area. For example, I myself sat outside of Locker Room in one game with an Armory built in Back Alley, running back and forth between the entrance of the hive and the armory for at least 5 minutes just killing any skulks that tried to come at me. I was trying to snipe a shell that was visible from the hallway, which I eventually did (90% of this time I had no teammates with me). Any time I suffered damage I could just run back to the armory and be at full hp/armor in a second or two, not to mention ammo.
The bottom line of course is the resupply power of armories is way over the top and will keep almost all marines alive that are using it in conjunction with a push.
My suggestion for putting a limit on this is to make the current armories as they are only placable near command stations within a radius similar to IPs (maybe a little wider). Then the commander should have a smaller version of armories, that are slightly cheaper but resupply at a much slower rate, or do not instantly repair armor, or maybe even HP. The commander can already keep marines alive with med spam. Marines should not be given a structure that can almost instantly heal them completely and fully resupply ammo anywhere on the map, especially when aliens have no real way of healing without returning to a hive or crags, or a gorge, and none of these healing methods are anywhere near as effective as an armory. Not to mention you can buy shotguns and mines from it and mine up a hive entrance making it even more impossible for aliens to push back.
<b>Field Armories:</b>
<ul><li> Smaller version of Armory, Cheaper, Less Health/Armor</li><li> Marines can only buy welders from it</li><li> Still resupplies ammo, much slower health regen, no armor regen</li></ul>
Alternatively, it would be cool if the field armory was an upgrade for the sentry battery, for 5 res, with teh same effects, with the full armories still only placable near Command Stations. I say "would be cool" because this might sway balance a little too much as it would be more expensive for marines to hold any area, but that's debatable.
The bottom line of course is the resupply power of armories is way over the top and will keep almost all marines alive that are using it in conjunction with a push.
My suggestion for putting a limit on this is to make the current armories as they are only placable near command stations within a radius similar to IPs (maybe a little wider). Then the commander should have a smaller version of armories, that are slightly cheaper but resupply at a much slower rate, or do not instantly repair armor, or maybe even HP. The commander can already keep marines alive with med spam. Marines should not be given a structure that can almost instantly heal them completely and fully resupply ammo anywhere on the map, especially when aliens have no real way of healing without returning to a hive or crags, or a gorge, and none of these healing methods are anywhere near as effective as an armory. Not to mention you can buy shotguns and mines from it and mine up a hive entrance making it even more impossible for aliens to push back.
<b>Field Armories:</b>
<ul><li> Smaller version of Armory, Cheaper, Less Health/Armor</li><li> Marines can only buy welders from it</li><li> Still resupplies ammo, much slower health regen, no armor regen</li></ul>
Alternatively, it would be cool if the field armory was an upgrade for the sentry battery, for 5 res, with teh same effects, with the full armories still only placable near Command Stations. I say "would be cool" because this might sway balance a little too much as it would be more expensive for marines to hold any area, but that's debatable.
Comments
if the alien team was unable to kill 1 marine inside or just outside their hive then they are dead no matter what.
armories on the field are all part of the strategy though.
for a slightly higher cost the commander can just med and ammo spam you (sure armor doesnt comeback this way, but its the health that counts).
and for an armory, the marines firstly have to survive long enough to build one. not mention get the power up too.
You mean a grand total of 10 seconds?
if the alien team was unable to kill 1 marine inside or just outside their hive then they are dead no matter what.
armories on the field are all part of the strategy though.
for a slightly higher cost the commander can just med and ammo spam you (sure armor doesnt comeback this way, but its the health that counts).
and for an armory, the marines firstly have to survive long enough to build one. not mention get the power up too.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Building an armory is hard.
They can certainly help you hold a point, but 1 marine solo'ing an alien team? Then they're ###### for not working together...
3-4 chomps and a marine is down.
I've chomped down 2 marines humping an armory before being killed myself. Solo...
Repeat that every game all the time and you'll have a case to stand on.
Personally, I think armories need a defense debuff so that popping them up anywhere is less appealing, but that's just me.
They can certainly help you hold a point, but 1 marine solo'ing an alien team? Then they're ###### for not working together...
3-4 chomps and a marine is down.
I've chomped down 2 marines humping an armory before being killed myself. Solo...
Repeat that every game all the time and you'll have a case to stand on.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Problem is, if the marine has just decent aim, he's going to kill a skulk before the skulk can land 3-4 bites, and then he simply recharges back to full, so unless you've killed all of the marines, you've accomplished basically nothing in eliminating the marine presence there.
I'm not talking about 1 marine soloing the entire alien team. That's not what my example was illustrating. It's just frustrating to me, from the skulk's perspective, to land 2/3 bites on two different marines (4 bites total to be clear) before dying only to have them be at full health/armor a couple seconds later when there is an armory nearby.
Crags do offer healing but it's at a laughably slow rate, and what's more is they can only be on infestation, so as an alien you almost always have to abandon your push to go back to a secured area where crags are (usually a hive until later in the game). Marines heal up in such a short time that they don't really lose any momentum even if they come within inches of their lives. Gorges could be useful in the same way but in the early game they are too busy building defenses for the second hive or other strategic locations. It's not until you have Onos' that you see Gorges playing an active combat support healing role that could SOMEWHAT rival the armory, which also happens to be the point where a Khammander with enough res will be placing more Crags around the map.
if you can't kill a marine that is build a structure in 10 seconds then you already dead.
No. The skulks are going to have to kill the marine(s) first, then take out the armory. And usually if the marine comm is serious about that location, he will be telling marines to keep heading there, and there's a good chance he will drop a PG there with the armory.
The main point of this thread is that armories' resupply rate and the fact that it repairs health and armor is much too powerful to be dropped anywhere on the map.
If you are sieged in main hive with too many marines, it means their main base is defenseless. So, run to their and force a beacon. Then, if they have more than 2 phase gate, they need much time to come back to the hive, as they have to pass one at time, not together. And I hope by then you can at least split their team.
Take care of marines and the phase gate -> they lost lot of res.
there is a tip on loading screen: as skulk, dont charge at marines, use vents to ambush, or something similar. And it's the best advice you can have.
If you are sieged at locker room, take the route to the tram or departures, from the other entrance of locker room.
this way, the route to their usual start is quick, as soon as you hear the beacon, run back.
If they don't beacon, you chomp their base and place a new hive there.
Aliens should react and act as a team. But I see mainly noobs that are camping and waiting for the single kill instead of going with the others and be dead OR do a lot of kills as a team.
Change the passive healing/repairing/resupplying effect into something the marines must buy. Only 1 res, and acts instantly. The drawback being that the marine must go up to the armory, enter the buy screen, click to get healed/repaired/ammo, and then exit. It keeps them from camping on armories since they'd be defenseless while in the menu, and while 1 res isn't really anything that anyone's going to miss they probably wouldn't just stand there, constantly healing themselves if a Skulk came up to bite on them. And, if that somehow <i>did</i> become an issue, the healing could be given a quick cool down time before you could buy another. (Since it heals you completely, you should never need more than one, anyway.)
Change the passive healing/repairing/resupplying effect into something the marines must buy. Only 1 res, and acts instantly. The drawback being that the marine must go up to the armory, enter the buy screen, click to get healed/repaired/ammo, and then exit. It keeps them from camping on armories since they'd be defenseless while in the menu, and while 1 res isn't really anything that anyone's going to miss they probably wouldn't just stand there, constantly healing themselves if a Skulk came up to bite on them. And, if that somehow <i>did</i> become an issue, the healing could be given a quick cool down time before you could buy another. (Since it heals you completely, you should never need more than one, anyway.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
this is just a really bad cop-out and a poor balance mechanic. you want the tradeoff to be that marines die because they're shopping at the armory screen? every other game seeks to streamline mundane tasks (Dota 2 has quick buy / sticky buy for example). adding another flashy menu with a mundane task is not the magic button of balance.
OP: field armory just seems like another cop-out, honestly. mildly unintuitive and questionable feature that only exists because the first mechanic wasn't implemented properly.
my personal thought is to try non-welding armories again, just because I believe they're the main reason that marine pushes are so sustainable. in addition to that, it would help re-focus the uh... welder gun.
If the marines put up a small base somewhere with armory and a phase gate then you should go kill it before it gets a big problem.
One armory is never a problem to kill if you have a team that are attacking that area over and over again. It will go down!
Time will tell, but currently I think aliens are adapting just fine. (Plus, aliens have crags, gorges, and cyst spam as well, so it's not like they can't do the same thing either).
No. The skulks are going to have to kill the marine(s) first, then take out the armory. And usually if the marine comm is serious about that location, he will be telling marines to keep heading there, and there's a good chance he will drop a PG there with the armory.
The main point of this thread is that armories' resupply rate and the fact that it repairs health and armor is much too powerful to be dropped anywhere on the map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It costs 15 T-Res to drop one, requires a power node up as well and can be countered by onos or bile bombing gorges easily. Do you want the phase gate taken out too?
And that provided alot more teamwork. because you had to have weders with you all the time or even share one.
I rarely see a marine welding another.
This game has a strong CoD vibe to it compared to the original. Alot less teamwork is required.
And freedom was restricted heavily as Khaara. (choice of upgrades, building as Gorge)
Hmm, I concede to your point.
Then maybe just the last part of my idea could work: A cool-down, but with instant effects. Maybe you can only get health/armor/ammo once every ten seconds or so? Again, the reason being that you really shouldn't need more than that anyway, and prevents armory camping.