Listen Othell, it seems we are hopelessly divided on this topic and you know... in the end... it really doesn't matter at all to me either way. If Flayra reversed his stance on the Leap/Bite thing would I stop playing NS? No. Do I care that you support scripting or believe scripting provides the player nothing but convenience, not really. However, I still wouldn't be outraged if members of the DEV disabled the console altogether. Though I imagine you'd have something to say about that.
Why did I mention Tribes? To comunicate the above fact, that being that in a game community that can pretty much alter and create functions that actually ARE pretty much impossible to do without the aid of scripts reflects little and yet I still very much enjoyed the game and still played it. In fact, aside from these 3 posts on the subject, I do not publicize my opinions over where my personal respect lyes when it comes to talent and skill. I certainly do not ride around in game and do not find the need to remind people of my opinion of this. I'm just as happy playing on and succeeding as you are at "owning" players attempting to pad their skills through scripts (benign or not).
When its all said and done, the only thing that matters is ones own confidence their personal ability. You are confident in yours and I in mine. We'll both continue to enjoy the game so, scripted or not, I don't see much in continuing this thread.
Perhaps Spamurai will find himself in your company on a server one day, perhaps not. Either way...
Well since Spamurai decided not to delve into the argument beyond my satirical response please allow me to put it into more direct terms:
I agree, Spamurai, that physical dexterity is commendable, especially in a game. However, I think you fail to realize a key point here: dexterity is only commendable relative to both its effectiveness and to the game engine.
Ie: you get props for how well you do (compared to everyone else) and how fast you are (compared to the game engine's conceivable limits).
That said, I believe it clears some of the waters muddied by scripting. Regardless of the base commands I'm given in a mod, I try to operate based on what I know the mod/game engine allows me to do. So if the game engine lets me use keyboard shortcuts (a la Starcraft) for my menus as a commander (even though realizing this idea requires a complex script) - well, props to me if I'm that much faster for it. Face it, no one is sitting there videotaping your hands while you play, and no one cares if you can perform the same move as me in a much more awkward way. The only "caring" going on here is our concern over your apparent masochism. We're gamers: we come to game, not to treat our keyboards like baroque harpsichords.
So I agree - big props to those who can handle their keyboard. But it's the use of <i>their own</i> keyboard I praise, not the most basic one given to us by the modders/programmers.
<!--QuoteBegin--LTT+Nov 22 2002, 01:31 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (LTT @ Nov 22 2002, 01:31 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->One marine crouched at the end of the vent (exploiting the hitbox bug) and used a script that unloaded an entire pistol clip in less than a second. Instant 300 damage.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And with this post, we see the 'derogatory term of the game' come to life. No longer is being called a cheater, or being called a hacker an insult, but being called for using a 'script' is the 'offense of choice' for the Natural Selection crowd.
The <i>script</i> you complain so much about is called making your mouse-wheel up or down another 'Primary Attack' bind, and rolling your finger across it with the pistol. Instantly-empty clip.
Or for that matter, if they have any of a number of auto-fire game controllers made specifically for PC FPS usage, like the Nostromo or Microsoft Dual FX, they just turned on rapid fire on their controller.
Things like this, are why I question the reasoning for even making anti-script code. Game developers on console system's can't stop these, even Metal Gear Solid's 'anti-rapid-fire' for the 'defeat the torture device' was unsuccessful entirely. And consoles have far, Far more limited variations than a PC does, with all manner of drivers and extra utilities loaded.
But even the orignal NES and Atari 2600's had controllers with auto-fire, and with the advent of multi-button controllers very quickly came controllers that could have sequences programmed into them.
If you don't want certain weapon combo's used, then encode limits between those weapon combo's, or just admit you can't fix it, and are being arbitrary and penalizing people because of a moral high ground you like to stand on, while those with very high levels of skill, or even a cheap computer with an accessability utility commonly sold for the Blind are sometimes caught by mistake.
All this anti-script does, is make the 'scripting' something that only the truly devoted do, <b>widening</b> the margin between the haves and the have-not's because the have-not's have to go through extensive steps to gain these features, while the have's don't really put any extra effort into things, most likely already using these utilities.
It's a bit like trying to detect pop-up-add blockers, all it does is cause a short-lived arms race that is as one-sided as an Ono vs an undefended Infantry Portal. To be honest, the only reason I don't post links to where these freeware utilities can be gotten, or more information about these game controllers, is because I don't want to find myself banned from the forums for perpetrating what the developers or moderators consider a cheat.
At the same time, they post all the 'known cheats and bugs' in the bug forum, which is both a blessing and a curse as those that know the engine can help sift through the bugs and try to improve on the bug reports some put up, but everyone knows about any given bug and how to use it until the next patch comes out.
I've not yet been tagged by the anti-script code in v1.02, but I've been finding myself playing far more cautionary regardless, I've found little if any real use for Leap or Blink except for movement, used to shuttle to the nearest movement chamber to get to the nearest hive and get me places quicker than Celerity, so most of my time is spent biting kneecaps off. :-) Though as a note, I do play with hud_fastswitch. And with the problems with Leap and Blink have with being stuck in things... they're both too risky to use in a combat situation.
To be blunt... why the heck is hud_fastswitch not hard-coded on, if the developers went to all the trouble of making each weapon a seperate slot? If they wanted us to have to 'pick' weapons manually, you'd have piled them all up into one slot, so we have to take the time to pull out the right weapon, instead of being able to have the 'luxery' of picking the right weapon immediately, with or without an extra mouse-click to taste.
But nobody would stand for that, and I think everyone will acknowledge that fact.
So instead... we have this somewhat dubious stance (in many player's eyes) about weapon switching, and just how much you <b>must do</b> before you can switch weapons. They knew if it was doing a jig, or some sort of ballet, nobody would play. At the same time, they don't want to just have these multi-firing aliens that blink and spit and bite all over the place like a swarm of rabid, crazed, starting weasels. So... we end up with this odd piece of technology to 'stop scripting' that's causing as much debate and argument and conversation as any other piece of technology released for Half-Life to date, in a shorter amount of time.
<!--QuoteBegin--Agent Buckshot Moose+Nov 19 2002, 10:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Agent Buckshot Moose @ Nov 19 2002, 10:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and the anti-script thing will kill you instantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> im pretty sure it doesn't kill you anymore in 1.02, just doesn't let you execute it.
Is Last Used Weapon going to start working again? I was seriously considering trying to bind leap to my fifth mouse button, simply because I don't feel like juggling configs (I can hit numbers fine, but going between 1 and 3 over and over is a bit obnoxious to me) when going between marine and kharaa. Last Used Weapon was more then fast enough for me though. If everyone really thinks that is cheating, perhaps I won't though...
Do you people also think me binding impulse 7 to MOUSE4 (chuckling for kharaa, follow me for marines) is also cheating?
<!--QuoteBegin--wlibaers+Nov 20 2002, 07:17 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (wlibaers @ Nov 20 2002, 07:17 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--coil+Nov 20 2002, 01:58 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 20 2002, 01:58 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Flayra *could* have made the aliens like the AvP aliens, where each attack has its own individual button, and there is no weapon switching; however, his design decision was to make them all discreet weapons that must be "enabled" to be fired.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that just a side effect of using the HL weapons system that only allows primary and secondary fire, and then using the right mouse button for the menu so any convenient secondary fire is lost? Of course, some mods do have extra binds (e.g. for grenades, but that's a separate weapon in NS).
I'd like to have separate keys for stuff like blink though, that's not even a real weapon, more an ability like jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> www.planethalflife.com/ssh
Has Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary fire.
The Rocket Crowbar version 2 beta has four fire keys, but it has been discontinued.
Code is now opensource. www.planethalflife.com/rocketcrowbar Go to Forums -> General -> General -> Beta Testing to find code.
Scripting itself is neither "good" or "bad." What determines whether or not a specific script is "good" or "bad" is its potential for positive use as well as its potential for abuse.
<!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Nov 20 2002, 04:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Nov 20 2002, 04:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--TikiTorchBob+Nov 20 2002, 03:23 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (TikiTorchBob @ Nov 20 2002, 03:23 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->It wasn't technically a weapon bind? I can accomplish the exact same thing using last inv as with specific weapon scripts. It's a moot point, **obscenity**. I realize that is your opinion, but it's retarted to call people lamers simply because you don't believe in scripting. If you don't want to argue over it, why bring it up? Just keep your mouth shut(metaphorically speaking).<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Because HL was my favorite game before the jumping-bean-tau-nade-missile launching chumps surfaced and made people think weapon binds and switch scripts were a good thing...
YES not all scripts are bad, but nuclear power isnt bad ither, and we all know where that went.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> rofl this guy is a comic!
Weapon switch scripts are cheating? So you'd be playing regular HL DM and when somebody else could press 1 key to switch between 2 weapons you'd call him a cheat?
lmao
Your obviously ignorant of where gaming has come from, and what it is today. the HL engine is based on the Q1 engine, which supported scripting (it was the only way to play a mod like TF) and everybody who played learned and used it. Now of course, there were certain types of scripts that simply had too much power and were considered then, as they are today, exploiting the purpose of scripts.
However, you should notice that every major game engine allows scripting. Q1, Q2, Q3, HL, UT, and UT2K3 ALL support scripting BUILT INTO their engine. They allow you to create custom config files and script your own alieses. If your saying that a feature built into all the most popular engines is a cheat...your just ignorant. (also think of all the games built on those engines, RtCW/MoH/JKII/Deus Ex etc).
Your trying to say that the biggest and best developers of our time are wrong, and that's like trying to fight city hall (if you were a tiny ant and city hall is an Eva).
<!--QuoteBegin--Harry S. Truman+Nov 22 2002, 03:44 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Harry S. Truman @ Nov 22 2002, 03:44 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Scripting is cheating because I don't know how to do it!
Oh my........
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> omg harry! long time no see! you trolled the DoDmod.com boards with me correct?
<!--QuoteBegin--Acheron+Nov 24 2002, 02:32 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Acheron @ Nov 24 2002, 02:32 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><i>*Acheron promptly discards as useless the <u>satirical</u> works of More, Pope and Swift.</i>
Thanks again, Spamurai!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> omg, that made my day man, roflmao
<!--QuoteBegin--Spamurai+Nov 24 2002, 06:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Spamurai @ Nov 24 2002, 06:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--> I'm sorry if some of you take offence to the idea of a "handicap" in needing to bind several actions to trigger automatically at a single keypress rather then pressing keys individually.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> And i'm sorry you care to ignore tools put there for you to use. As a gamer i would never flaunt my physical talants. Gaming is not about the manipulation of your fingers. If you want a dexterity test go play tennis or ping pong.
Gaming is about reaction, decision, and tactics. Should i walk down this hallway to the left? Go for the sheild? Wait for the enemy here? Go back the way i came? Aim for his head? Follow that guy there? Hide behind that box?
I pride mental prowess much more than physical dexterity when it comes to games. The easier you make a game to control, the more fun you can have playing it.
Disregaurding Acheron's excellent points just because he was making them in a satirical manor is an incredibly ignorant thing to do. He was making a legitimate point. Many of the best arguments in history have been written satirically (sp?) and it is a well established genre of literiture.
Why should we have to do all these complicated button tapping to simply switch weapons? Because it was built in as the default? By that logic anybody deriving from the wasd format is a confirmed cheater! Scripting is the ability to customize your controls the way you like it. Why should we limit customization?
<!--QuoteBegin--Nimbus+Nov 24 2002, 09:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nimbus @ Nov 24 2002, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, I'd love to have a script like coil described. 1 button for each attack would be very nice. I've tried making a script to do this but it never works completely right (ie: it doesn't work if you hold the button down, the first time you press the button it only switches but doesn't attack, etc.)
Could anyone help me out with this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hud_fastswitch 1 alias +wep1 "slot1;+attack" alias -wep1 "-attack" bind x +wep1
alias +wep2 "slot2;+attack" alias -wep2 "-attack" bind y +wep2
etc.
This will bind a different attack to each key, simply press the key to use that attack. You need hud_fastswitch 1 on for it to work. If you hold down the key, it will continue to attack. Be carful not to press 2 attack keys next to each other or you'll get killed by the anti-script.
coilAmateur pirate. Professional monkey. All pance.Join Date: 2002-04-12Member: 424Members, NS1 Playtester, Contributor
<!--QuoteBegin--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> </td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Regardless of the base commands I'm given in a mod, I try to operate based on what I know the mod/game engine allows me to do.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
In response to Acheron and Bridger:
I realize the Half-life engine allows scripting of multiple commands to a single keypress, and that this can be used to great effect (e.g. rocket/conc-jumping scripts, etc). It could also, theoretically, be used to create a "leap" key.
However, step back for a minute and pretend that Flayra is not a mod-maker, but a game developer. Quake 3 supports dual processors; however, when Lucasarts licensed the engine for Jedi Knight 2, they disabled dual processor support (because it made the AI too good!). Here we have Flayra, using the Half-Life engine to make his total conversion (about as close as you can get to licensing an engine to develop a game)... and he has decided to disable the ability of players to bind multiple weapon commands to a single key.
Think of it this way: The Half-life engine may have supported scripting of this nature, but NATURAL SELECTION DOES NOT. It was a design decision by Flayra, it is part of the code, and I'd wager that if scripting weren't supported in Halflife we would not be having this argument at all.
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Nov 25 2002, 11:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 25 2002, 11:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->and I'd wager that if scripting weren't supported in Halflife we would not be having this argument at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Isn't that a given? How could we argue about something that isn't even present?
You misunderstand me, coil. I'm aware of the limitations enforced on NS by Flayra, and I protest them as frequently as I can <!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo-->
For example, the mod doesn't allow me to have a leap key, so I don't try and make one. However, this doesn't stop me from trying to make the process of leaping less awkward. So when I speak of, "What the mod/game engine allows me to do," I have these enforced limitations in mind. We're not here to cheat or to subvert Flayra as scripters.
Umm, i've made myself a primitive leaping script, it works fine,and it doesn't kill me or anything. Actually what restrictions/punishments are there for scripting?
<!--QuoteBegin--coil+Nov 25 2002, 08:28 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (coil @ Nov 25 2002, 08:28 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Think of it this way: The Half-life engine may have supported scripting of this nature, but NATURAL SELECTION DOES NOT. It was a design decision by Flayra, it is part of the code, and I'd wager that if scripting weren't supported in Halflife we would not be having this argument at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're right, we wouldn't be having this discussion out in the open like this. It would be a 'problem' that could be swept under the rug and farmed out to 'hardware incompatabilities' with buzzword bingo to cover one's rump.
The fact is, disabling multi-processor support to make the game beatable is far different from trying to disable scripting. The former is equivilant to simply slowing down the game with a delay loop in places, the latter is changing the basic functionality of the game itself.
And if Half-Life didn't support scripting under Natural Selection or in general... nobody that didn't own a game controller or keyboard or software utility that could do it for them would know scripting was even possible... and therefore nobody but these elite few would have this capability.
If it was a 'design decision' by Flayra, it was one made for the right reasons, but at the wrong time. It's going against an entire industry that has sprung up around highly programmable, customizable, high-end, performance gaming controllers and hardware. Much like a faster CPU, or a better video card, or even a larger monitor can improve one's visible skill greatly, so can one's configuration, or one's choice of controller.
How is scripting any different in capabilities than, say, comparing someone running Half-Life on a 11" screen with only a keyboard and speakers to someone running Half-Life on a 21" screen with a studio headset, and $500 video card, with a pair of form-fit gaming controllers that have better scripting capabilities than Half-Life ever could?
If you can show me how scripting is different in it's ability to change one's performance from the afore-mentioned gaming rig comparison, please enlighten me. I'd love to see the difference. But is there one, functionally? There is one difference... scripting is free, costing only time and knowledge to perform. All that hardware costs several thousand dollars, making it far out of the reach of many players, while the scripting, and all tools for it, are mature and well-developed already... and available for free.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin--Sahaqiel+Nov 25 2002, 12:52 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Sahaqiel @ Nov 25 2002, 12:52 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Umm, i've made myself a primitive leaping script, it works fine,and it doesn't kill me or anything. Actually what restrictions/punishments are there for scripting?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Their aren't any at the moment I believe. In the previous version if you dared press the weapon switch buttons too fast manually you got automatically killed.
Minstrel_KnightThe truth and nothing but the truth...Join Date: 2002-11-21Member: 9562Banned
<!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Nov 25 2002, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Nov 25 2002, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cant belive this crappy thread is still up..... eww.......<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you for bumping it.
<!--QuoteBegin--Minstrel Knight+Nov 25 2002, 06:40 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Minstrel Knight @ Nov 25 2002, 06:40 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--GreyPaws+Nov 25 2002, 06:25 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (GreyPaws @ Nov 25 2002, 06:25 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->I cant belive this crappy thread is still up..... eww.......<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Thank you for bumping it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> NP glad to help... with 6 pages I doubt I did much to change things <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
<!--QuoteBegin--Bridger+Nov 25 2002, 11:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bridger @ Nov 25 2002, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Nimbus+Nov 24 2002, 09:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nimbus @ Nov 24 2002, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, I'd love to have a script like coil described. 1 button for each attack would be very nice. I've tried making a script to do this but it never works completely right (ie: it doesn't work if you hold the button down, the first time you press the button it only switches but doesn't attack, etc.)
Could anyone help me out with this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hud_fastswitch 1 alias +wep1 "slot1;+attack" alias -wep1 "-attack" bind x +wep1
alias +wep2 "slot2;+attack" alias -wep2 "-attack" bind y +wep2
etc.
This will bind a different attack to each key, simply press the key to use that attack. You need hud_fastswitch 1 on for it to work. If you hold down the key, it will continue to attack. Be carful not to press 2 attack keys next to each other or you'll get killed by the anti-script.
Hope that helps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, I tried this and it wouldn't let me attack at all with any weapon. Everytime I tried it nothing would happen and it said in the console: "unknown command -wep1" (or -wep2,3,4)
It also deleted the alias's after I left the game and opened the config, but the [bind "key" "+wep1"] things were still there.
<!--QuoteBegin--Nimbus+Nov 25 2002, 08:18 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nimbus @ Nov 25 2002, 08:18 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Bridger+Nov 25 2002, 11:27 AM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bridger @ Nov 25 2002, 11:27 AM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin--><!--QuoteBegin--Nimbus+Nov 24 2002, 09:59 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Nimbus @ Nov 24 2002, 09:59 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->Anyways, I'd love to have a script like coil described. 1 button for each attack would be very nice. I've tried making a script to do this but it never works completely right (ie: it doesn't work if you hold the button down, the first time you press the button it only switches but doesn't attack, etc.)
Could anyone help me out with this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> hud_fastswitch 1 alias +wep1 "slot1;+attack" alias -wep1 "-attack" bind x +wep1
alias +wep2 "slot2;+attack" alias -wep2 "-attack" bind y +wep2
etc.
This will bind a different attack to each key, simply press the key to use that attack. You need hud_fastswitch 1 on for it to work. If you hold down the key, it will continue to attack. Be carful not to press 2 attack keys next to each other or you'll get killed by the anti-script.
Hope that helps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> Hmm, I tried this and it wouldn't let me attack at all with any weapon. Everytime I tried it nothing would happen and it said in the console: "unknown command -wep1" (or -wep2,3,4)
It also deleted the alias's after I left the game and opened the config, but the [bind "key" "+wep1"] things were still there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> i think you need them in a seperate config that you exec when your in the game.
<!--QuoteBegin--Bridger+Nov 25 2002, 09:26 PM--></span><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td><b>QUOTE</b> (Bridger @ Nov 25 2002, 09:26 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'><!--QuoteEBegin-->i think you need them in a seperate config that you exec when your in the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd--> How do I do that?
put them in a different file in the same directory, e.g. killmenow.cfg or thiswontwork.cfg, then do "exec killmenow.cfg" from console, or bind it to a key in autoexec.
Yay, it works great! all I have to do is press f8 in game to start it and press f8 again when I exit NS to revert it back to the original cfg (otherwise it overwrites a bunch of stuff). Thanks guys!
Comments
Why did I mention Tribes? To comunicate the above fact, that being that in a game community that can pretty much alter and create functions that actually ARE pretty much impossible to do without the aid of scripts reflects little and yet I still very much enjoyed the game and still played it. In fact, aside from these 3 posts on the subject, I do not publicize my opinions over where my personal respect lyes when it comes to talent and skill. I certainly do not ride around in game and do not find the need to remind people of my opinion of this. I'm just as happy playing on and succeeding as you are at "owning" players attempting to pad their skills through scripts (benign or not).
When its all said and done, the only thing that matters is ones own confidence their personal ability. You are confident in yours and I in mine. We'll both continue to enjoy the game so, scripted or not, I don't see much in continuing this thread.
Perhaps Spamurai will find himself in your company on a server one day, perhaps not. Either way...
Spamurai.
<-out>
I agree, Spamurai, that physical dexterity is commendable, especially in a game. However, I think you fail to realize a key point here: dexterity is only commendable relative to both its effectiveness and to the game engine.
Ie: you get props for how well you do (compared to everyone else) and how fast you are (compared to the game engine's conceivable limits).
That said, I believe it clears some of the waters muddied by scripting. Regardless of the base commands I'm given in a mod, I try to operate based on what I know the mod/game engine allows me to do. So if the game engine lets me use keyboard shortcuts (a la Starcraft) for my menus as a commander (even though realizing this idea requires a complex script) - well, props to me if I'm that much faster for it. Face it, no one is sitting there videotaping your hands while you play, and no one cares if you can perform the same move as me in a much more awkward way. The only "caring" going on here is our concern over your apparent masochism. We're gamers: we come to game, not to treat our keyboards like baroque harpsichords.
So I agree - big props to those who can handle their keyboard. But it's the use of <i>their own</i> keyboard I praise, not the most basic one given to us by the modders/programmers.
And with this post, we see the 'derogatory term of the game' come to life. No longer is being called a cheater, or being called a hacker an insult, but being called for using a 'script' is the 'offense of choice' for the Natural Selection crowd.
The <i>script</i> you complain so much about is called making your mouse-wheel up or down another 'Primary Attack' bind, and rolling your finger across it with the pistol. Instantly-empty clip.
Or for that matter, if they have any of a number of auto-fire game controllers made specifically for PC FPS usage, like the Nostromo or Microsoft Dual FX, they just turned on rapid fire on their controller.
Things like this, are why I question the reasoning for even making anti-script code. Game developers on console system's can't stop these, even Metal Gear Solid's 'anti-rapid-fire' for the 'defeat the torture device' was unsuccessful entirely. And consoles have far, Far more limited variations than a PC does, with all manner of drivers and extra utilities loaded.
But even the orignal NES and Atari 2600's had controllers with auto-fire, and with the advent of multi-button controllers very quickly came controllers that could have sequences programmed into them.
If you don't want certain weapon combo's used, then encode limits between those weapon combo's, or just admit you can't fix it, and are being arbitrary and penalizing people because of a moral high ground you like to stand on, while those with very high levels of skill, or even a cheap computer with an accessability utility commonly sold for the Blind are sometimes caught by mistake.
All this anti-script does, is make the 'scripting' something that only the truly devoted do, <b>widening</b> the margin between the haves and the have-not's because the have-not's have to go through extensive steps to gain these features, while the have's don't really put any extra effort into things, most likely already using these utilities.
It's a bit like trying to detect pop-up-add blockers, all it does is cause a short-lived arms race that is as one-sided as an Ono vs an undefended Infantry Portal. To be honest, the only reason I don't post links to where these freeware utilities can be gotten, or more information about these game controllers, is because I don't want to find myself banned from the forums for perpetrating what the developers or moderators consider a cheat.
At the same time, they post all the 'known cheats and bugs' in the bug forum, which is both a blessing and a curse as those that know the engine can help sift through the bugs and try to improve on the bug reports some put up, but everyone knows about any given bug and how to use it until the next patch comes out.
I've not yet been tagged by the anti-script code in v1.02, but I've been finding myself playing far more cautionary regardless, I've found little if any real use for Leap or Blink except for movement, used to shuttle to the nearest movement chamber to get to the nearest hive and get me places quicker than Celerity, so most of my time is spent biting kneecaps off. :-) Though as a note, I do play with hud_fastswitch. And with the problems with Leap and Blink have with being stuck in things... they're both too risky to use in a combat situation.
To be blunt... why the heck is hud_fastswitch not hard-coded on, if the developers went to all the trouble of making each weapon a seperate slot? If they wanted us to have to 'pick' weapons manually, you'd have piled them all up into one slot, so we have to take the time to pull out the right weapon, instead of being able to have the 'luxery' of picking the right weapon immediately, with or without an extra mouse-click to taste.
But nobody would stand for that, and I think everyone will acknowledge that fact.
So instead... we have this somewhat dubious stance (in many player's eyes) about weapon switching, and just how much you <b>must do</b> before you can switch weapons. They knew if it was doing a jig, or some sort of ballet, nobody would play. At the same time, they don't want to just have these multi-firing aliens that blink and spit and bite all over the place like a swarm of rabid, crazed, starting weasels. So... we end up with this odd piece of technology to 'stop scripting' that's causing as much debate and argument and conversation as any other piece of technology released for Half-Life to date, in a shorter amount of time.
im pretty sure it doesn't kill you anymore in 1.02, just doesn't let you execute it.
Do you people also think me binding impulse 7 to MOUSE4 (chuckling for kharaa, follow me for marines) is also cheating?
Isn't that just a side effect of using the HL weapons system that only allows primary and secondary fire, and then using the right mouse button for the menu so any convenient secondary fire is lost?
Of course, some mods do have extra binds (e.g. for grenades, but that's a separate weapon in NS).
I'd like to have separate keys for stuff like blink though, that's not even a real weapon, more an ability like jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
www.planethalflife.com/ssh
Has Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary fire.
The Rocket Crowbar version 2 beta has four fire keys, but it has been discontinued.
Code is now opensource.
www.planethalflife.com/rocketcrowbar
Go to Forums -> General -> General -> Beta Testing to find code.
There is no such limitation in Halflife.
Because HL was my favorite game before the jumping-bean-tau-nade-missile launching chumps surfaced and made people think weapon binds and switch scripts were a good thing...
YES not all scripts are bad, but nuclear power isnt bad ither, and we all know where that went.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
rofl this guy is a comic!
Weapon switch scripts are cheating? So you'd be playing regular HL DM and when somebody else could press 1 key to switch between 2 weapons you'd call him a cheat?
lmao
Your obviously ignorant of where gaming has come from, and what it is today. the HL engine is based on the Q1 engine, which supported scripting (it was the only way to play a mod like TF) and everybody who played learned and used it. Now of course, there were certain types of scripts that simply had too much power and were considered then, as they are today, exploiting the purpose of scripts.
However, you should notice that every major game engine allows scripting. Q1, Q2, Q3, HL, UT, and UT2K3 ALL support scripting BUILT INTO their engine. They allow you to create custom config files and script your own alieses. If your saying that a feature built into all the most popular engines is a cheat...your just ignorant. (also think of all the games built on those engines, RtCW/MoH/JKII/Deus Ex etc).
Your trying to say that the biggest and best developers of our time are wrong, and that's like trying to fight city hall (if you were a tiny ant and city hall is an Eva).
Oh my........
<!--emo&:D--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/biggrin.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='biggrin.gif'><!--endemo--><!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg harry! long time no see! you trolled the DoDmod.com boards with me correct?
Thanks again, Spamurai!<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
omg, that made my day man, roflmao
I'm sorry if some of you take offence to the idea of a "handicap" in needing to bind several actions to trigger automatically at a single keypress rather then pressing keys individually.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And i'm sorry you care to ignore tools put there for you to use. As a gamer i would never flaunt my physical talants. Gaming is not about the manipulation of your fingers. If you want a dexterity test go play tennis or ping pong.
Gaming is about reaction, decision, and tactics. Should i walk down this hallway to the left? Go for the sheild? Wait for the enemy here? Go back the way i came? Aim for his head? Follow that guy there? Hide behind that box?
I pride mental prowess much more than physical dexterity when it comes to games. The easier you make a game to control, the more fun you can have playing it.
Disregaurding Acheron's excellent points just because he was making them in a satirical manor is an incredibly ignorant thing to do. He was making a legitimate point. Many of the best arguments in history have been written satirically (sp?) and it is a well established genre of literiture.
Why should we have to do all these complicated button tapping to simply switch weapons? Because it was built in as the default? By that logic anybody deriving from the wasd format is a confirmed cheater! Scripting is the ability to customize your controls the way you like it. Why should we limit customization?
I've tried making a script to do this but it never works completely right (ie: it doesn't work if you hold the button down, the first time you press the button it only switches but doesn't attack, etc.)
Could anyone help me out with this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hud_fastswitch 1
alias +wep1 "slot1;+attack"
alias -wep1 "-attack"
bind x +wep1
alias +wep2 "slot2;+attack"
alias -wep2 "-attack"
bind y +wep2
etc.
This will bind a different attack to each key, simply press the key to use that attack. You need hud_fastswitch 1 on for it to work. If you hold down the key, it will continue to attack. Be carful not to press 2 attack keys next to each other or you'll get killed by the anti-script.
Hope that helps.
In response to Acheron and Bridger:
I realize the Half-life engine allows scripting of multiple commands to a single keypress, and that this can be used to great effect (e.g. rocket/conc-jumping scripts, etc). It could also, theoretically, be used to create a "leap" key.
However, step back for a minute and pretend that Flayra is not a mod-maker, but a game developer. Quake 3 supports dual processors; however, when Lucasarts licensed the engine for Jedi Knight 2, they disabled dual processor support (because it made the AI too good!). Here we have Flayra, using the Half-Life engine to make his total conversion (about as close as you can get to licensing an engine to develop a game)... and he has decided to disable the ability of players to bind multiple weapon commands to a single key.
Think of it this way: The Half-life engine may have supported scripting of this nature, but NATURAL SELECTION DOES NOT. It was a design decision by Flayra, it is part of the code, and I'd wager that if scripting weren't supported in Halflife we would not be having this argument at all.
Isn't that a given? How could we argue about something that isn't even present?
For example, the mod doesn't allow me to have a leap key, so I don't try and make one. However, this doesn't stop me from trying to make the process of leaping less awkward. So when I speak of, "What the mod/game engine allows me to do," I have these enforced limitations in mind. We're not here to cheat or to subvert Flayra as scripters.
Actually what restrictions/punishments are there for scripting?
You're right, we wouldn't be having this discussion out in the open like this. It would be a 'problem' that could be swept under the rug and farmed out to 'hardware incompatabilities' with buzzword bingo to cover one's rump.
The fact is, disabling multi-processor support to make the game beatable is far different from trying to disable scripting. The former is equivilant to simply slowing down the game with a delay loop in places, the latter is changing the basic functionality of the game itself.
And if Half-Life didn't support scripting under Natural Selection or in general... nobody that didn't own a game controller or keyboard or software utility that could do it for them would know scripting was even possible... and therefore nobody but these elite few would have this capability.
If it was a 'design decision' by Flayra, it was one made for the right reasons, but at the wrong time. It's going against an entire industry that has sprung up around highly programmable, customizable, high-end, performance gaming controllers and hardware. Much like a faster CPU, or a better video card, or even a larger monitor can improve one's visible skill greatly, so can one's configuration, or one's choice of controller.
How is scripting any different in capabilities than, say, comparing someone running Half-Life on a 11" screen with only a keyboard and speakers to someone running Half-Life on a 21" screen with a studio headset, and $500 video card, with a pair of form-fit gaming controllers that have better scripting capabilities than Half-Life ever could?
If you can show me how scripting is different in it's ability to change one's performance from the afore-mentioned gaming rig comparison, please enlighten me. I'd love to see the difference. But is there one, functionally? There is one difference... scripting is free, costing only time and knowledge to perform. All that hardware costs several thousand dollars, making it far out of the reach of many players, while the scripting, and all tools for it, are mature and well-developed already... and available for free.
Actually what restrictions/punishments are there for scripting?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Their aren't any at the moment I believe. In the previous version if you dared press the weapon switch buttons too fast manually you got automatically killed.
alias "killmeplease" "+attack; wait; wait; wait; wait; -attack"
or
alias "imadoofus" "weapon_leap; wait; +attack; wait; wait; wait; -attack; wait; weapon_bitegun"
Thx.
Thank you for bumping it.
Thank you for bumping it.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NP glad to help... with 6 pages I doubt I did much to change things <!--emo&:)--><img src='http://www.unknownworlds.com/forums/html/emoticons/smile.gif' border='0' valign='absmiddle' alt='smile.gif'><!--endemo-->
I've tried making a script to do this but it never works completely right (ie: it doesn't work if you hold the button down, the first time you press the button it only switches but doesn't attack, etc.)
Could anyone help me out with this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hud_fastswitch 1
alias +wep1 "slot1;+attack"
alias -wep1 "-attack"
bind x +wep1
alias +wep2 "slot2;+attack"
alias -wep2 "-attack"
bind y +wep2
etc.
This will bind a different attack to each key, simply press the key to use that attack. You need hud_fastswitch 1 on for it to work. If you hold down the key, it will continue to attack. Be carful not to press 2 attack keys next to each other or you'll get killed by the anti-script.
Hope that helps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I tried this and it wouldn't let me attack at all with any weapon. Everytime I tried it nothing would happen and it said in the console: "unknown command -wep1" (or -wep2,3,4)
It also deleted the alias's after I left the game and opened the config, but the [bind "key" "+wep1"] things were still there.
I've tried making a script to do this but it never works completely right (ie: it doesn't work if you hold the button down, the first time you press the button it only switches but doesn't attack, etc.)
Could anyone help me out with this?<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
hud_fastswitch 1
alias +wep1 "slot1;+attack"
alias -wep1 "-attack"
bind x +wep1
alias +wep2 "slot2;+attack"
alias -wep2 "-attack"
bind y +wep2
etc.
This will bind a different attack to each key, simply press the key to use that attack. You need hud_fastswitch 1 on for it to work. If you hold down the key, it will continue to attack. Be carful not to press 2 attack keys next to each other or you'll get killed by the anti-script.
Hope that helps.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm, I tried this and it wouldn't let me attack at all with any weapon. Everytime I tried it nothing would happen and it said in the console: "unknown command -wep1" (or -wep2,3,4)
It also deleted the alias's after I left the game and opened the config, but the [bind "key" "+wep1"] things were still there.<!--QuoteEnd--></td></tr></table><span class='postcolor'><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i think you need them in a seperate config that you exec when your in the game.
How do I do that?