<!--quoteo(post=2022130:date=Nov 13 2012, 10:31 AM:name=Techercizer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Techercizer @ Nov 13 2012, 10:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022130"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've asked UWE about this a few times and received a response. They are interested in it but were unable to get it working for 1.0. We should see it as an addition down the line.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Sweet. Would love to see this in the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2022541:date=Nov 13 2012, 05:09 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Nov 13 2012, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as aslong as you can't turn while crouched (or at least turn REALLLY slowly) this would be awesome.
the tactic would be, you can crouch to become a shield (grenades bounce off, bullets ricochet off etc) But you it only activates from the front where you bones are, so that any marine(s) can still strafe around you, or fly above/behind you - and you'd have to give up your crouched position in order to turn to either block or attack them.
this would be great for shielding a hidden army of skulks behind you from an exo or turrets or even normal rines.
and it means that jetpacks would be a better counter to onos.
EDIT - also a crouching boneshielding onos, should take more damage from melee - so that those who dare can get up close with an Axe or Exo claw to attack from melee :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. I think bone shield should just be bullet invulnerability on the face. Effectively allowing you to tank exosuits in corridors. Flamers, grenades and flanking should be your fear. Grenades explode and will still affect the other parts of the onos, so I cannot see him being invulnerable from them.
<!--quoteo(post=2022605:date=Nov 14 2012, 01:01 AM:name=Zek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zek @ Nov 14 2012, 01:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022605"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Locational damage wouldn't change anything about that, it just creates more black/white engagements that are either hopeless for the marines(not fun) or hopeless for the Onos(not fun) depending entirely on what room the fight happens to be in. It creates silly behavior like the Onos strafing/backpedaling all over the place and spinning to face every marine. It's not a factor you can strategize around in advance, so it doesn't affect lifeform variety at all, it just changes how the engagements play out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You paint it black and white and than say that it has too much black. Please read the post completely and look at the picture. The onos is never completely invulnerable. You just need to aim at the upper front legs. I haven't found a picture of a crouching onos yet, but I know the spots just get smaller. They don't disappear. Also you create situations that you can't be sure of working. Fast spinning should help to block all bullets? Maybe it does not? Maybe you catch even more? I can understand your fears, that it would destroy the onos as a viable life form. But this can be countered by balancing. Or are you seriously saying, that this skill-less onos play-style we got now is benefiting the game?
I really dislike this idea, an exo who knows how to aim will have a really fun day killing one onos after another and will only raise the skill level for the exo user who can kill the most onos, it would just make onos useless.
Leave the Onos as it is, it's one of the only units that are actually balanced.
Since I can't head and neckshot marines with a skulk I'm going to go ahead and say that it doesn't fit into the current game, but it could be seen down the road
<!--quoteo(post=2023203:date=Nov 14 2012, 11:13 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Nov 14 2012, 11:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023203"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You paint it black and white and than say that it has too much black. Please read the post completely and look at the picture. The onos is never completely invulnerable. You just need to aim at the upper front legs. I haven't found a picture of a crouching onos yet, but I know the spots just get smaller. They don't disappear. Also you create situations that you can't be sure of working. Fast spinning should help to block all bullets? Maybe it does not? Maybe you catch even more? I can understand your fears, that it would destroy the onos as a viable life form. But this can be countered by balancing. Or are you seriously saying, that this skill-less onos play-style we got now is benefiting the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> So now the Onos is actually vulnerable from all sides? People will just learn to always shoot his legs and now he's screwed because his HP was cut in half to compensate for the face-shield. Reminds me of NS 1.0 where the Onos had a small hitbox and half the bullets wouldn't hit, until people figured out to always aim for his center of mass and then he became gimped. I just don't see any gameplay benefit other than "it just makes sense, look at all those bones on his face". There's nothing the Onos can do to stop marines from shooting at his legs so it doesn't add any skill for him.
I'm personally fine with how the Onos plays now, though I wouldn't object to giving him another active ability that's a bit more skill-dependent. Playing an Onos puts a lot of emphasis on tactics and picking your fights properly since it's so difficult for him to escape from a bad engagement.
The Onos is too good and the other aliens are too terrible. We don't need to further improve the utility of the onos, rather we should focus on making skulks scale properly so that a single higher life form death does not completely nullify the alien player's effectiveness for the next 15 minutes.
<!--quoteo(post=2023252:date=Nov 14 2012, 10:06 AM:name=mR.Waffles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mR.Waffles @ Nov 14 2012, 10:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2023252"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The Onos is too good and the other aliens are too terrible. We don't need to further improve the utility of the onos, rather we should focus on making skulks scale properly so that a single higher life form death does not completely nullify the alien player's effectiveness for the next 15 minutes.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> The nice thing about Bone Shield is that it opens the door for the Onos to be nerfed in HP and Armor, allowing skilled Oni to excel at their new roles but terrible ones to be much less effective.
This has been discussed elsewhere in the thread already.
The onos already blocks most of the incoming fire for all other lifeforms, the only issue is with grenades or a ninja marine who runs past the onos (which the onos never expects, to be charged by a single marine) who then snipes the gorge.
I'm not sure what will really change though if you increase damage reduction to the front as you'll need to offset it with some other nerf as it's already the most powerful and destructive force in the game. Once the onos gets into the base the marines tend to spread out and shoot his arse to pieces so what you're suggesting seems pretty redundant because A) he already blocks incoming fire (and fairly effectively as he can still run ammuck in a base after taking a face full of flak), and B) aliens have always been better off stealthing or charging into the base whilst the marines aren't looking.
You're either changing the onos to be less consistent in base assaults or out right buffing the already most powerful unit in the game.
So we want to switch a lot of stuff around to try to achieve the same result we have now only different.
Sounds legit.
In all seriousness, this is silly. Positional mechanics don't make sense in NS. If you want to add them, I'm fine with it, but if Onos is tough from the front and weak in the back then skulks should be able to head-shot Marines in two hits with A3. Or something else to make the rest of the Aliens team far less dependent on late-game Onos to win the game. I'm all for diversification, but this sounds like a change that will result in super-frustrating play as Onos versus a team that is <i>at all</i> accurate.
Right now, the Onos is the only unit that can negate the Marines 'aim' benefit and it does it with raw HP and redonkulously high damage. If you change that to a positional benefit, the only real thing you're doing is buffing the Marines.
Even if your changed Onos performed at the same level it does now from the front, a weak rear means that Onos would no longer be viable with 'hit and run' tactics. So what then? Suicide charge? That sounds like <i>so much fun</i>.
Bone shield sounds like a great potential counter to the exosuit instead of devour, if at any point it is decided there needs to be an onos based counter in such a way. It would be more of an emphasis on the need to use flamethrowers, grenades, and jetpacks to overcome the onos because an exo would likely lose in a strait up clash with an onos due to it's shielding.
Comments
Sweet. Would love to see this in the game.
<!--quoteo(post=2022541:date=Nov 13 2012, 05:09 PM:name=schkorpio)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (schkorpio @ Nov 13 2012, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2022541"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as aslong as you can't turn while crouched (or at least turn REALLLY slowly) this would be awesome.
the tactic would be, you can crouch to become a shield (grenades bounce off, bullets ricochet off etc) But you it only activates from the front where you bones are, so that any marine(s) can still strafe around you, or fly above/behind you - and you'd have to give up your crouched position in order to turn to either block or attack them.
this would be great for shielding a hidden army of skulks behind you from an exo or turrets or even normal rines.
and it means that jetpacks would be a better counter to onos.
EDIT - also a crouching boneshielding onos, should take more damage from melee - so that those who dare can get up close with an Axe or Exo claw to attack from melee :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I disagree. I think bone shield should just be bullet invulnerability on the face. Effectively allowing you to tank exosuits in corridors. Flamers, grenades and flanking should be your fear. Grenades explode and will still affect the other parts of the onos, so I cannot see him being invulnerable from them.
You paint it black and white and than say that it has too much black. Please read the post completely and look at the picture. The onos is never completely invulnerable. You just need to aim at the upper front legs. I haven't found a picture of a crouching onos yet, but I know the spots just get smaller. They don't disappear.
Also you create situations that you can't be sure of working. Fast spinning should help to block all bullets? Maybe it does not? Maybe you catch even more?
I can understand your fears, that it would destroy the onos as a viable life form. But this can be countered by balancing. Or are you seriously saying, that this skill-less onos play-style we got now is benefiting the game?
Leave the Onos as it is, it's one of the only units that are actually balanced.
<i>2-3 years maybe?</i>
Also you create situations that you can't be sure of working. Fast spinning should help to block all bullets? Maybe it does not? Maybe you catch even more?
I can understand your fears, that it would destroy the onos as a viable life form. But this can be countered by balancing. Or are you seriously saying, that this skill-less onos play-style we got now is benefiting the game?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So now the Onos is actually vulnerable from all sides? People will just learn to always shoot his legs and now he's screwed because his HP was cut in half to compensate for the face-shield. Reminds me of NS 1.0 where the Onos had a small hitbox and half the bullets wouldn't hit, until people figured out to always aim for his center of mass and then he became gimped. I just don't see any gameplay benefit other than "it just makes sense, look at all those bones on his face". There's nothing the Onos can do to stop marines from shooting at his legs so it doesn't add any skill for him.
I'm personally fine with how the Onos plays now, though I wouldn't object to giving him another active ability that's a bit more skill-dependent. Playing an Onos puts a lot of emphasis on tactics and picking your fights properly since it's so difficult for him to escape from a bad engagement.
The nice thing about Bone Shield is that it opens the door for the Onos to be nerfed in HP and Armor, allowing skilled Oni to excel at their new roles but terrible ones to be much less effective.
This has been discussed elsewhere in the thread already.
I'm not sure what will really change though if you increase damage reduction to the front as you'll need to offset it with some other nerf as it's already the most powerful and destructive force in the game. Once the onos gets into the base the marines tend to spread out and shoot his arse to pieces so what you're suggesting seems pretty redundant because A) he already blocks incoming fire (and fairly effectively as he can still run ammuck in a base after taking a face full of flak), and B) aliens have always been better off stealthing or charging into the base whilst the marines aren't looking.
You're either changing the onos to be less consistent in base assaults or out right buffing the already most powerful unit in the game.
Sounds legit.
In all seriousness, this is silly. Positional mechanics don't make sense in NS. If you want to add them, I'm fine with it, but if Onos is tough from the front and weak in the back then skulks should be able to head-shot Marines in two hits with A3. Or something else to make the rest of the Aliens team far less dependent on late-game Onos to win the game. I'm all for diversification, but this sounds like a change that will result in super-frustrating play as Onos versus a team that is <i>at all</i> accurate.
Right now, the Onos is the only unit that can negate the Marines 'aim' benefit and it does it with raw HP and redonkulously high damage. If you change that to a positional benefit, the only real thing you're doing is buffing the Marines.
Even if your changed Onos performed at the same level it does now from the front, a weak rear means that Onos would no longer be viable with 'hit and run' tactics. So what then? Suicide charge? That sounds like <i>so much fun</i>.
It would be more of an emphasis on the need to use flamethrowers, grenades, and jetpacks to overcome the onos because an exo would likely lose in a strait up clash with an onos due to it's shielding.