Marine Comm: Outlying res nodes
Gorgenapper
Join Date: 2012-09-05 Member: 157916Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Join Date: 2012-09-05 Member: 157916Members, Reinforced - Shadow
<div class="IPBDescription">How to defend them??</div>So, how do people like to defend their outlying res nodes as a marine comm? I have seen four methods so far:
- sprint to defend them
- mines
- sentries
- PG and forward base (usually reserved for double)
If the alien team is on their game, there will always be a skulk or two biting those extractors in between the marine bases. Other than telling marines to 'run and save' the RT, is there any other way? I've seen sentries used as a deterrent, but that's 25 res that I cannot afford in early game. I could research mines, but a good lerk will just spike them. Even a skulk can parasite a mine several times and kill it.
- sprint to defend them
- mines
- sentries
- PG and forward base (usually reserved for double)
If the alien team is on their game, there will always be a skulk or two biting those extractors in between the marine bases. Other than telling marines to 'run and save' the RT, is there any other way? I've seen sentries used as a deterrent, but that's 25 res that I cannot afford in early game. I could research mines, but a good lerk will just spike them. Even a skulk can parasite a mine several times and kill it.
Comments
I understand that... but, for example on ns_veil, skylights and topo keep going down. When is it worth building some turrets to deter and defend them? Never? If so, then how can they be defended in a cost-effective manner other than having a marine sprint from main base and (hopefully) save it?
just standing around defending an RT as a marine; essentially waiting for the aliens to come to you - is probably the worst thing you can do... unless you have enough marines to sucessfully defend every RT on the map.
the reason it's such a problem in pubs is that people generally fail at map awareness and only seem to use it for finding the 'furthest forward marine player/structure' then stand around with their gun pointing toward alien hive without actually doing anything. the aliens then think "lol marine noobs, i'll just skip you and kill skylights again - see ya". in which case marines lose yet another RT and don't actually make any progress because they're all 'scared' that there are 20 aliens hidden around the corner in the next room.
Locations that maximize your abilities to...
Defend, Scout, Attack.
Usually these locations are good for building a phase gate anyway.
Here are a couple examples of such rooms.
NS_Tram - Tram Hub: protects repair room, elevator transfer, mezzanine, shipping, observation, ore processing.
NS_Summit - Crossroads: protects Data Core, Computer Lab, Flight Control, Summit Reception.
Mines also help a lot.
Unfortunately in a public game, its usually impossible or frustrating to get players to organize well enough to hold a position.
Most people are just too trigger happy and looking for a fight. Its almost always better to let aliens come to you. The only exceptions to this rule include harvester harassing, upgrade chamber harassing, hive rushing.
Just try your best as commander to get people to hold positions and stop rushing into alien hives or into rooms where they will most likely die. have them hold positions near the res node they just captured and try to capture res nodes in strategically viable locations.
Also, keep an eye on outlying extractors and be prepared to recycle them the very instant you realize that it can't be saved.
Have a phase gate in overlook or nano grid and an obs that can detect incoming aliens, before they attack overlook or nano grid or skylights.
Same for Topo.
have a phase gate in C12 or The Neck or Nanogrid and an obs that can detect incoming aliens before they attack C12 or Nanogrid or Topographical.
The positioning of these obs should maximize the time you have to react to an attack and should also be hidden if possible, since obs are very weak structures.
Add 3 mines or so per extractor, and you've got a solid defense.
A Phase gate is nano grid, give you easy access to cargo, a phase gate at The Neck give you easy access to Pipeline and a Phase gate at Overlook gives you easy access to Sub Sector. An obs at any of these locations, or all. Will give you warning of any and all extractors being attacked behind it.
....But everything in this game is situational of course.
I figured out how to deal with this after a dozen games: Don't build them. Don't build topo and skylights. Just get nano and a 2nd tech point and you're golden. 4 rt's is plenty. If your marines don't have anything to do after that, tell 'em to go rambo.
Disclaimer: 4 rt's is especially fine in veil because if you have nano and 2nd tech point, it means aliens don't have shait. Aliens will have like 2 rt's. You've plenty of time to churn all your upgrades with the 4 you've got.
On the other hand, if you've played as an alien trying to assault a fairly well-established marine base (as in, more than just an RT in the room), it's nearly suicide and starts to feel pointless. In one game I played recently, our strategy was to get just enough resources to start establishing a base in one of the rooms we had advanced to (armory, phase gate, mainly). This made it VERY difficult for aliens to stop that amount of expansion. What's more, if this expansion is in the direction of their hive, they have no choice but to do what they can to stop this base; which, if you have enough marines behind it, is usually not so much.
If establishing such a base is difficult with constant attacks, consider expanding in a different direction. On many maps the center nodes (ie, Crossroads in Summit I think) go ignored for a while. I think one of my few games as commander, the turning point was when we built a phase gate in there. At the marine respawn rate, phase gates are the main thing that make bases indestructible.
One thing to watch out for is that as marines, you will NOT be able to claim and hold the majority of the map's worth of resource nodes, at least not until very late game. You may even waste too many resources futilely rebuilding them. In the end, you might even have fewer resource nodes early on (just by knowing what you can and can't hold onto), but given the marines' strong ability to make group pushes against inadequate alien defense, you can very much claim back that advantage.
Disclaimer: 4 rt's is especially fine in veil because if you have nano and 2nd tech point, it means aliens don't have shait. Aliens will have like 2 rt's. You've plenty of time to churn all your upgrades with the 4 you've got.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually, that's not a bad idea.
But it makes early game tough, you either win Nano or you don't.
Not an all-in but certainly risky.
if they are chewing on a node and you hve someone nearby then save it
if not then recycle and rebuild at a later date
as long as you are also presuring their res nodes then its all good
also its very demotivating as a skulk when a comm recycles everything that you att and its all rebuilt by the time you come around again lol
But it makes early game tough, you either win Nano or you don't.
Not an all-in but certainly risky.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is one of the bits of asymmetry to think about though.
When aliens push out, they really need to consider where the marines are, and go in the opposite direction. They are just NOT head-on fighters. They are super-fast and stealthy, and can maneuver the enemy enough to split them up and finish them off. But when it comes to "base vs base"? Let's just say if the game consisted of one room fighting another room with a few simple corridors in the middle, marines would win most of the time.
tl;dr - I see marines as being much better at attacking in groups, holding an established, defended area, etc. So theoretically, spots like Nano Grid should be where the marines have a big advantage. I know as Aliens, when I see they have a phase gate in there, I really can't form any good plans to take it back.
If there is a good enough distraction the outlying nodes will never get touched
I usually try to setup good coverage where I have 3 phase gates and a 2nd chair with IPs in a room without a phase
This makes it so people will be able to get to either every room instantly or be 1 room away from anything being attacked
A Tech point without a phase or chair almost always gets sentries
Easiest way to keep aliens off them is to keep up offensive pressure. That way, the aliens either don't spend the time to attack them, or they suffer inferior numbers at the front line.
Disclaimer: 4 rt's is especially fine in veil because if you have nano and 2nd tech point, it means aliens don't have shait. Aliens will have like 2 rt's. You've plenty of time to churn all your upgrades with the 4 you've got.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i'm not a fan of this idea...
even if they're constantly getting killed - the fact that you have RT's up there to 'tie up' the aliens means that there are less skulks to defend their own RT's. if you have the majority of the map, then the alien RT's are far more valuable than your RT's - ergo it's a marine win.
the only situation where this does not work, is when the marine players are not applying pressure and therefore not punishing the 'free roaming' aliens.
If there is a good enough distraction the outlying nodes will never get touched
I usually try to setup good coverage where I have 3 phase gates and a 2nd chair with IPs in a room without a phase
This makes it so people will be able to get to either every room instantly or be 1 room away from anything being attacked
A Tech point without a phase or chair almost always gets sentries<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Oh, so... like drop Pipeline chair with two IPs, but put the PG in the Neck? So that you can phase in and save pipeline, or run to C12? And then (obviously) have an obs in Pipeline for bacon?
Don't put mines on RTs, unless you have too many extras, it's too costly. Don't use Sentries, it doesn't work, they almost always have a blind spot and they are very expensive for the goal you're trying to accomplish. Don't put phase gates in non-techpoint positions (generally), too many phase gates slow marine reaction time, confuse marines, and cost a lot (you can use a phase gate in a weird place for aggression, but it's bad for defense). Just have phasegates at your tech points and make marines run from the closet tech point to the node under attack or taken down. Don't make it more complicated than that.