Want to fix the 'fist' EXO? Easy, just take away the fist and give it a welder. All of a sudden that EXO becomes useful, while still not being OP in terms of firepower. Let that EXO with the reduced firepower build buildings and repair. Give it a role to play. Right now it's just a waste of res unless the team is desperate.
<!--quoteo(post=2040041:date=Dec 4 2012, 10:05 PM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 4 2012, 10:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040041"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Want to fix the 'fist' EXO? Easy, just take away the fist and give it a welder. All of a sudden that EXO becomes useful, while still not being OP in terms of firepower. Let that EXO with the reduced firepower build buildings and repair. Give it a role to play. Right now it's just a waste of res unless the team is desperate.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Or just let players buy the fists-only base Exoskeleton for 25 res (and let the commander drop it for 25 res as well) and then have the marine buy the weapons for it at the Prototype Lab while he is in the Exo.
If the player really wanted, he could go for a melee-only Exo that is slow but punches the ###### out of Skulks for 25 res that way. Otherwise he could add weapon upgrades as he desires: <ul><li>5 res - Welder</li><li>20 res - Shotgun</li><li>25 res - Flamethrower</li><li>25 res - Grenade Launcher</li><li>25 res - Minigun</li><li>30 res - Railgun</li></ul>
The commander would have to research dual wielding for the Exo at the same price as the current Dual Minigun Exo for the player to buy two attachments, otherwise one remains the fist.
And I think the list above would be pretty balanced in terms of combinations and cost. It allows Exos to wield powerful weapons like the Grenade Launcher while also having his other powerful secondary weapon available when it comes to a close counter attack, as opposed to the basic marine GL. Of course he would still have to deal with his low agility and couldn't escape grenades that got knocked back from Whips as easily. Or Exo with Minigun + Flamethrower to fend of Skulks in close combat while having less fire power against ranged attacks from Gorges. Or a double Shotgun Exo. Probably devastating at close range but completely lacks long range power. Seems acceptable for 65 res and can still be taken out by a coordinated alien team. A double Welder Exo would be ridiculously defenseless but would be the ultimate support unit for other Exos at the cost of 35 res.
And of course would the player be able to actually leave an Exo suit, so the commander doesn't drop an Exo for a player who can't afford any of the weapons.
Ellen RipleyJoin Date: 2012-11-06Member: 167803Members
<!--quoteo(post=2040174:date=Dec 4 2012, 08:48 PM:name=Jarl Ballin')--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jarl Ballin' @ Dec 4 2012, 08:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040174"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To drop dual exo's should cost 100 res since they can't be destroyed when uninhabited and Onos Eggs can.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't compensate for bugs with convoluted balance adjustments, just fix the bugs. Give dropped exos proper collision/hitboxes and make them destructable.
arguments like this can be annoying sometimes Some of us arent elite tactical geniuses and we arent all super dooper skulks either. The tactics you are talking about are all revolving around highly skilled people working as a team.
Most games I play in are played with average players with average skills not league matches. I rack up damage in an exo and generally like playing them. I also JP and weld too when the needs arise. Just because some people dont like the idea of exos doesnt mean comms shouldnt have the ability to drop them.
Does anyone know how much energy EMP depletes? If MACs wouldn't die in 3 seconds to skill bomb then an EMP exo squad might be decent.
@ CrushaK, to me it seems like you've been playing Nod C&C3...Avatars much? I like the idea tbh. Exos starting out at 25 res, although I would limit it to 2 weapon slots and one utility slot.
Example - Flamethrower/Minigun/Welder. Welder auto repairs the exo but at a slower rate than an active marine welding. Other utility slots could be an EMP pulse, mobile observatory, mini ARC, charge boost, mini armory but only restores health and ammo, overdrive that boosts movement speed temporarily, short range phaser - select nearby location on map to teleport but takes 5 seconds to fully teleport at which you cannot attack.
Would like to see more done with the exos, they just feel to weak atm on everything other than DPS.
They realy should think about the Exosuits again. About how fragile they are.
IDk.... always when i see an Exo this remembers me at Alien2 ...that Loader Mech tooks some realy hard beats from the Alienqueen and didnt explode or had a malfunction o.O
<!--quoteo(post=2040384:date=Dec 5 2012, 11:07 AM:name=Ghostshell)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghostshell @ Dec 5 2012, 11:07 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040384"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exos should called a Plastic Mech <.<
They realy should think about the Exosuits again. About how fragile they are.
IDk.... always when i see an Exo this remembers me at Alien2 ...that Loader Mech tooks some realy hard beats from the Alienqueen and didnt explode or had a malfunction o.O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It's not really that Exo's are fragile that's the problem. If you conceptionally imagine an entire marine team equipped with dual exos, there is nothing the aliens have that can actually kill that... The issue is that the Exo's also can't kill the aliens, because as soon as they leave marine start their base disappears. It's a hard balance between how silly powerful exo's already are in a position the aliens don't want them to be, and how vulnerable that number of exo's in that position leaves everything else the marines control on the map. You never want the situation where the marine team just has 1 exo in every location they want to defend or take and immediately the aliens don't have any options left... but if you pump up exo health much more than it is you very quickly start getting into those types of situations.
^ One major problem is that - during a push - these Exos actually stop and fall back when the going gets tough, because they're afraid of losing their mechs. If you're doing an exo push and the way isn't filled with onoses, whips and other crap... have welders backing the exos up, make the push and KEEP GOING. Lead the way with overwhelming firepower - flamethrowers, gls, miniguns blazing. Kill anything that can hurt you first before shooting any passive structures like the hive/upgrades/RTs/cysts (yes, I've seen exos shoot cysts during a hive push).
Looking at it from the alien point of view, if I see 3 - 5 (or more) exos walking towards me without stopping/falling back, with dual miniguns blazing, and grenades raining from the sky.... I'm NOT throwing myself at them even if I'm an Onos.
<!--quoteo(post=2040371:date=Dec 5 2012, 04:16 PM:name=RaZDaZ)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RaZDaZ @ Dec 5 2012, 04:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040371"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->@ CrushaK, to me it seems like you've been playing Nod C&C3...Avatars much? I like the idea tbh. Exos starting out at 25 res, although I would limit it to 2 weapon slots and one utility slot.
Example - Flamethrower/Minigun/Welder. Welder auto repairs the exo but at a slower rate than an active marine welding. Other utility slots could be an EMP pulse, mobile observatory, mini ARC, charge boost, mini armory but only restores health and ammo, overdrive that boosts movement speed temporarily, short range phaser - select nearby location on map to teleport but takes 5 seconds to fully teleport at which you cannot attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that would simply seem overpowered (if you could use those utilities as bonus without having to give up firepower for it).
A mobile observatory would completely negate any stealth or ambush attempt aliens could go for. A portable armory into the alien base would be OP as well. Like the mobile observatory would you give up a task that is usually the commander's job and is supposed to cost tres with every use to players who spent some pres on their Exo for an infinite supply of that task. The EMP pulse is another thing that you would take away from the commander's responsibility and which could make a bunch of Exos, who can use it whenever they feel they need it without having to wait for commander micromamangement, a bit too strong on the defence. You also wouldn't want a player-controlled version of the ARC because it takes away from the logistic effort that it is to get a proper armada of siege weaponry like ARCs into a tactical position. And having a player-controlled weapon that shoots through walls would probably open too much room for wall-hacking accusations and random "luck" shots.
However, maybe it would be possible to buy different armor-upgrades for the Exo: <ul><li>Heavy Armor - Adds 100 HP and 15% better damage resistance against Bile Bombs at the cost of a slightly reduced walking and turning speed of the Exo.</li><li>Lightweight Design - Reduces default health by 80 HP but increases speed (about the level of a normal walking/non-sprinting marine) and allows the Exo to fly a bit higher with his thrusters.</li><li>Charge Pack - Adds a (very slowly) recharging energy pack to the Exo that allows him to sprint forward for a short duration but reduces sidewards movement controls while doing so, similar to an Onos charge.</li></ul>
Comments
Ooo, I LIKE THAT!
Or just let players buy the fists-only base Exoskeleton for 25 res (and let the commander drop it for 25 res as well) and then have the marine buy the weapons for it at the Prototype Lab while he is in the Exo.
If the player really wanted, he could go for a melee-only Exo that is slow but punches the ###### out of Skulks for 25 res that way.
Otherwise he could add weapon upgrades as he desires:
<ul><li>5 res - Welder</li><li>20 res - Shotgun</li><li>25 res - Flamethrower</li><li>25 res - Grenade Launcher</li><li>25 res - Minigun</li><li>30 res - Railgun</li></ul>
The commander would have to research dual wielding for the Exo at the same price as the current Dual Minigun Exo for the player to buy two attachments, otherwise one remains the fist.
And I think the list above would be pretty balanced in terms of combinations and cost.
It allows Exos to wield powerful weapons like the Grenade Launcher while also having his other powerful secondary weapon available when it comes to a close counter attack, as opposed to the basic marine GL. Of course he would still have to deal with his low agility and couldn't escape grenades that got knocked back from Whips as easily.
Or Exo with Minigun + Flamethrower to fend of Skulks in close combat while having less fire power against ranged attacks from Gorges.
Or a double Shotgun Exo. Probably devastating at close range but completely lacks long range power. Seems acceptable for 65 res and can still be taken out by a coordinated alien team.
A double Welder Exo would be ridiculously defenseless but would be the ultimate support unit for other Exos at the cost of 35 res.
And of course would the player be able to actually leave an Exo suit, so the commander doesn't drop an Exo for a player who can't afford any of the weapons.
Don't compensate for bugs with convoluted balance adjustments, just fix the bugs. Give dropped exos proper collision/hitboxes and make them destructable.
Most games I play in are played with average players with average skills not league matches. I rack up damage in an exo and generally like playing them. I also JP and weld too when the needs arise. Just because some people dont like the idea of exos doesnt mean comms shouldnt have the ability to drop them.
edit:
Whilst flame thrower exo sounds great, GL exo sounds like fail-in-a-bag though.
@ CrushaK, to me it seems like you've been playing Nod C&C3...Avatars much? I like the idea tbh. Exos starting out at 25 res, although I would limit it to 2 weapon slots and one utility slot.
Example - Flamethrower/Minigun/Welder. Welder auto repairs the exo but at a slower rate than an active marine welding. Other utility slots could be an EMP pulse, mobile observatory, mini ARC, charge boost, mini armory but only restores health and ammo, overdrive that boosts movement speed temporarily, short range phaser - select nearby location on map to teleport but takes 5 seconds to fully teleport at which you cannot attack.
Would like to see more done with the exos, they just feel to weak atm on everything other than DPS.
They realy should think about the Exosuits again. About how fragile they are.
IDk.... always when i see an Exo this remembers me at Alien2 ...that Loader Mech tooks some realy hard beats from the Alienqueen and didnt explode or had a malfunction o.O
- Left-mouse click performs robotic punches at high speed FOTNS style, with a chance to make alien brains explode
- Right-mouse click can grab an alien lifeform and suplex it for 250dmg (heavy damage) and 5 seconds of stun
(but seriously, I like the idea of letting fist exos weld stuff, we would have something akin to the welder HA trains of NS1).
They realy should think about the Exosuits again. About how fragile they are.
IDk.... always when i see an Exo this remembers me at Alien2 ...that Loader Mech tooks some realy hard beats from the Alienqueen and didnt explode or had a malfunction o.O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not really that Exo's are fragile that's the problem. If you conceptionally imagine an entire marine team equipped with dual exos, there is nothing the aliens have that can actually kill that... The issue is that the Exo's also can't kill the aliens, because as soon as they leave marine start their base disappears. It's a hard balance between how silly powerful exo's already are in a position the aliens don't want them to be, and how vulnerable that number of exo's in that position leaves everything else the marines control on the map. You never want the situation where the marine team just has 1 exo in every location they want to defend or take and immediately the aliens don't have any options left... but if you pump up exo health much more than it is you very quickly start getting into those types of situations.
One major problem is that - during a push - these Exos actually stop and fall back when the going gets tough, because they're afraid of losing their mechs. If you're doing an exo push and the way isn't filled with onoses, whips and other crap... have welders backing the exos up, make the push and KEEP GOING. Lead the way with overwhelming firepower - flamethrowers, gls, miniguns blazing. Kill anything that can hurt you first before shooting any passive structures like the hive/upgrades/RTs/cysts (yes, I've seen exos shoot cysts during a hive push).
Looking at it from the alien point of view, if I see 3 - 5 (or more) exos walking towards me without stopping/falling back, with dual miniguns blazing, and grenades raining from the sky.... I'm NOT throwing myself at them even if I'm an Onos.
Example - Flamethrower/Minigun/Welder. Welder auto repairs the exo but at a slower rate than an active marine welding. Other utility slots could be an EMP pulse, mobile observatory, mini ARC, charge boost, mini armory but only restores health and ammo, overdrive that boosts movement speed temporarily, short range phaser - select nearby location on map to teleport but takes 5 seconds to fully teleport at which you cannot attack.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Now that would simply seem overpowered (if you could use those utilities as bonus without having to give up firepower for it).
A mobile observatory would completely negate any stealth or ambush attempt aliens could go for. A portable armory into the alien base would be OP as well.
Like the mobile observatory would you give up a task that is usually the commander's job and is supposed to cost tres with every use to players who spent some pres on their Exo for an infinite supply of that task.
The EMP pulse is another thing that you would take away from the commander's responsibility and which could make a bunch of Exos, who can use it whenever they feel they need it without having to wait for commander micromamangement, a bit too strong on the defence.
You also wouldn't want a player-controlled version of the ARC because it takes away from the logistic effort that it is to get a proper armada of siege weaponry like ARCs into a tactical position. And having a player-controlled weapon that shoots through walls would probably open too much room for wall-hacking accusations and random "luck" shots.
However, maybe it would be possible to buy different armor-upgrades for the Exo:
<ul><li>Heavy Armor - Adds 100 HP and 15% better damage resistance against Bile Bombs at the cost of a slightly reduced walking and turning speed of the Exo.</li><li>Lightweight Design - Reduces default health by 80 HP but increases speed (about the level of a normal walking/non-sprinting marine) and allows the Exo to fly a bit higher with his thrusters.</li><li>Charge Pack - Adds a (very slowly) recharging energy pack to the Exo that allows him to sprint forward for a short duration but reduces sidewards movement controls while doing so, similar to an Onos charge.</li></ul>