Team balance issues.

grazr

<div class="IPBDescription">auto balance alternatives</div>public games can go really one sided when you're dealing with teams of 6vs6 to 8vs8, smaller teams than your average FPS, the liability of a single player makes a huge impact and the lack of one even more so. A second problem is the lack of a match making system allowing noobs to all jump into their marine comfort zone even though they're terrible at it because really (and subtly), marine play is harder.

I have a real issue with the auto-balance feature. First off it doesn't seem to descriminate against score. Several times i've been arbitrarily prevented from spawning for an extended period whilst second on the score board. Secondly and almost in contradiction to the first point, people don't seem to give a crap about waiting out to avoid changing teams.

I rarely see anyone actually make the change to even teams and it's a real shame to see a team stacked for an extended period of time and even more so if you happen to be matched with 3-4 green players taking up half the team. Players waiting are far more prone to waiting until someone joins the server so they can respawn and continue playing a stacked game that went from 8vs6 to 8vs7.

I know some people will probably disagree and that's fine, but i'd really like to see at least an option to install on a server the ability to force a player from the bottom half of the scoreboard over to the other side for the sake of not frustrating players and nipping the problem in the bud and allowing players to move on with the game.

Despite the fact that players are often not willing to change because of the progress they made with their player advantage, it's not fun winning a game because you had more players, all the same as losing a game because you were a player down or two.

EDIT: I also wouldn't hesitate to put part of the problem on the fact that aliens have an early game advantage of mobility and lack of team responsibility (the com builds all the stuff solo). Players seem to be more likely to stack aliens because it's an easy game, it'll garauntee a nice score and the marines get stomped in small population servers as a result. This is why i much prefer playing in 8vs8 servers, because this affect is reduced; 6vs5 is much less difficult to overcome than 8vs7

lwf

You were not arbitrarily prevented from spawning. You were prevented from spawning because you died on the team with too many players and as a result placed in a spawning queue. Skipping the queue based on score of all things, now that would be as arbitrary as it could get.

When no one even wants to switch manually when the alternative is not playing, how is forcing a player to change going to be less frustrating?

grazr

<!--quoteo(post=2040683:date=Dec 6 2012, 01:15 AM:name=lwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lwf @ Dec 6 2012, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When no one even wants to switch manually when the alternative is not playing, how is forcing a player to change going to be less frustrating?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Because a player at the bottom of the score board is less likely to lose a ton of progress; which is exactly why no one wants to change in the first place even though the game will be skewed for a while. Who's more likely to be frustrated at being switched teams, the player who contributed to controlling an entire flank of a map only to be switched to a losing team or a player who just recently joined, contributing almost nothing to the teams progress.

If the teams are uneven, throw that person to the other team, teams are even ASAP, noone gets spawn locked and no significant damage is done. The game is allowed to progress with fluidity.

<!--quoteo(post=2040683:date=Dec 6 2012, 01:15 AM:name=lwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lwf @ Dec 6 2012, 01:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2040683"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You were not arbitrarily prevented from spawning. You were prevented from spawning because you died on the team with too many players and as a result placed in a spawning queue. Skipping the queue based on score of all things, now that would be as arbitrary as it could get.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

I never said anything about skipping the queue, maybe you should re-read the OP.

It is arbitrary because it could pick any player. That is the definition of arbitrary. It's random. Without bias. Teams are stacked so the game occasionally arbitrarily spawn locks key players sometimes over new players. Arbitrary. People don't like random factors dictating a teams performance, this is why "critical hit" systems are usually disabled in competitive leagues in games that use such features. Having one player spawn locked doesn't make any sense to this alternative that keeps everyone in the game.

As for the alternative being not arbitrary, it's the standard system in place for most FPS games. Counter Strike, TF2, Day of Defeat, BattleField, CoD. It's an industry standard for a reason. It works and it's efficient.

current1yold

Personally I want to do away with this auto balance feature. All it does is slow games down that should have already been decided. It drags games out pointlessly and past doing it for a 8vs6 situation (when some one actually leaves the server) it is useless!

Removing it will also teach people when to F4 which is not done enough on aliens in particular in my opinion.