<!--quoteo(post=2042051:date=Dec 8 2012, 11:45 AM:name=Canucck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canucck @ Dec 8 2012, 11:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.0, with 600dpi (14"/360). Everything Karnaj said is spot on.
You want to be moving your mouse with your arm instead of your wrist. It's more comfortable/natural, allows you to be more accurate with your mouse movements (it's easier to "feel out" 5" for a 180 turn than it is 5mm, and harder to screw it up), and can be moved just as fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must have some fairly odd bone structure if you are capable of more precise movements with your forearm than with your wrist / fingers. While a palm grip has its advantages over fingertip grip, precision is not one of them.
<!--quoteo(post=2042078:date=Dec 8 2012, 03:53 PM:name=nailertn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nailertn @ Dec 8 2012, 03:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You must have some fairly odd bone structure if you are capable of more precise movements with your forearm than with your wrist / fingers. While a palm grip has its advantages over fingertip grip, precision is not one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Compare a 12"/360 to 1.2cm/360. You want to do a 180 turn. If you "miss" and move 5"/5mm or 7"/7mm instead of 6"/6mm you end up either at 210 or 150. Obviously it's a lot easier to be off by a small margin than it is a large margin, making any minor movement errors pretty much negligible with lower sensitivity. With less room for error it's a lot easier to consistently track moving targets. The time difference between the 6" and 6mm movement is also negligible.
Also keep in mind that even if a target is only 10m away from you, you'll likely only move your mouse by <120 degrees in any direction anyway.
<!--quoteo(post=2041969:date=Dec 8 2012, 09:06 AM:name=Viajero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Viajero @ Dec 8 2012, 09:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2041969"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->No, no. I meant indeed bunnyhopping. In this case to get speed obviously and become a more difficult target (thats when I found marines cant BH but skulks can, as long as they use the walls no?). The "up and down" and erratic effect would have been just a plus.
Thanks for the rest of the advice!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I've never heard of bunnyhopping as a marine to help you aim better with your guns.... Bunnyhopping as a marine in NS1 had some map speed advantages, and occasionally you could use it for a nice retreat, but it was pretty much never something you could use to help you hit aliens, it was more the opposite, you had to choose between shooting accurately and moving elegantly, part of being good at the game was making the right choice at the right time.
You can still do the backwards strafe dodge, although there's no airspeed gain from it.
<!--quoteo(post=2042078:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:53 PM:name=nailertn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nailertn @ Dec 8 2012, 02:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042078"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You must have some fairly odd bone structure if you are capable of more precise movements with your forearm than with your wrist / fingers. While a palm grip has its advantages over fingertip grip, precision is not one of them.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Exactly, that's why your arm movement is for big movements, and your finger and wrist movement is for small movements. If your sensitivity is set up such that you primarily use your fingers and wrist for the wide large sweeping motions, then you won't have the sensitivity to perform the micro-accuracy maneuvers.
<!--quoteo(post=2042036:date=Dec 8 2012, 07:55 PM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 8 2012, 07:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042036"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->5-7, but I tend to aim using bigger movements with my arm instead of micro movement with my hand. It also stops RSI issues, well I've never had any so it must be true right? :P<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Offtopic: How can you see what sensitivity you have? Doesn't show numbers in games options and can't find config file. My sensitivity is almost at minimum but I compensate it with playing with 3200 DPI mouse.
<!--quoteo(post=2042140:date=Dec 8 2012, 05:52 PM:name=Zenu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Zenu @ Dec 8 2012, 05:52 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042140"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Offtopic: How can you see what sensitivity you have? Doesn't show numbers in games options and can't find config file. My sensitivity is almost at minimum but I compensate it with playing with 3200 DPI mouse.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i_sensitivity in console to see what it is, or look in ../steam/userdata/<id>/4920/remote/options.xml
i_sensitivity # in console to set it to something specific
You'll tend to find skulks have 3 main bite strats.
1) Run around in a circle.
This is actually easy to counter as you can just strafe kite with them, leading them into your LMG shots. Start to strafe in one direction, then when they get into range suddenly switch and it'll totally throw off their positioning. Or if you're lucky you can take them out before they even get into range. If they're running right at you, sudden movements by them can cause you to miss a lot of shots, if you strafe to the side they have to adjust to come at you and you force them to come at you in a way you can track.
2) running from left to right, taking glancing hits.
This is also easy to counter as long as you notice it. I don't know whether this is easy for me as i enjoy playing skulk more than any other evolution and know the bite patterns, but you can get their biting pattern down after their second leap and just shoot where they land. Generally you'll be strafing left into the inside of their jump and then alternate to strafing right as they turn. If they fall to the left of you, when they turn to face you strafe towards them. Generally they'll over compensate and fly right past you on their following leap.
3) Frenzied jumping
This is actually almost impossible to counter except for exploiting a corner forcing them to take a linear path at you as they'll have to turn that corner to chase you and you can anticipate that move. The plus side is they'll usually miss you and exhuast their energy and mostly get glancing hits. If there are 2 skulks doing this however you're basically ######.
Jumping doesn't do much but leap you out of the FoV of aliens who bite your ankles. It fools the scrubs, but not really anyone else.
If you want to practice your twitch aiming with whatever gun is your choice, one way is to set up a bunch of cysts for target practice. I think it works fairly well in explore mode to give you some practice with jetpack shotgunning. You can run a section of course with cysts setup here and there and they are small enough to be challenging while your flying with the jetpack as long as you are moving quickly.
You should hide some around the side of crates etc so that you have to rotate to turn and hit it. You can then fly back checking how many you hit in case you didn't see the numbers popping up while attacking.
"I can aim better with a dead cat than with a sniper rifle. Just make sure the target is ten times bigger." I am not saying people with palm grip have worse accuracy, I am saying that <b>all other things being equal</b> you are more precise with a fingertip grip. Sensitivity can be set to low regardless of how you hold your mouse.
<!--quoteo(post=2042113:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:00 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 8 2012, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly, that's why your arm movement is for big movements, and your finger and wrist movement is for small movements. If your sensitivity is set up such that you primarily use your fingers and wrist for the wide large sweeping motions, then you won't have the sensitivity to perform the micro-accuracy maneuvers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Low sensitivity -> palm grip -> forearm for broad movements, wrist for finer adjustments. High sensitivity -> hybrid or fingertip grip -> wrist for broad, fingers for fine movement
That doesn't mean your fingers are glued to the mouse with palm grip and can't use them at all nor that your forearm is cast in stone with fingertip grip, it just shows where most of the work is being done.
While there is no bad choice per se and having to move the mouse 30+ cm for a 360 turn is perfectly normal for a sniper, in NS2 that involves frequent frantic melee with lots of spinning around? It just seems overkill. But each to his own.
<!--quoteo(post=2042211:date=Dec 8 2012, 07:10 PM:name=nailertn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nailertn @ Dec 8 2012, 07:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042211"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"I can aim better with a dead cat than with a sniper rifle. Just make sure the target is ten times bigger." I am not saying people with palm grip have worse accuracy, I am saying that <b>all other things being equal</b> you are more precise with a fingertip grip. Sensitivity can be set to low regardless of how you hold your mouse.
Low sensitivity -> palm grip -> forearm for broad movements, wrist for finer adjustments. High sensitivity -> hybrid or fingertip grip -> wrist for broad, fingers for fine movement
That doesn't mean your fingers are glued to the mouse with palm grip and can't use them at all nor that your forearm is cast in stone with fingertip grip, it just shows where most of the work is being done.
While there is no bad choice per se and having to move the mouse 30+ cm for a 360 turn is perfectly normal for a sniper, in NS2 that involves frequent frantic melee with lots of spinning around? It just seems overkill. But each to his own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> You're incorrectly assuming that we're proponents of palm grip because we're saying that a majority of your movements in NS2 should be arm movements. They SHOULD be arm movements, but they should be arm movements from the claw grip. You often need to perform micro moves in ns, which is why you have your fingers and wrist, but you also more often need to suddenly react to a skulk biting your butt, or track a marine you just headbutted into at 60 miles per hour. There is no sensitivity setting that both allows you to do those things with only your wrist and fingertips, AND do the micro movements (picking off a parasite, pistol whipping a naughty skulk) accurately and efficiently.
<!--quoteo(post=2042051:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:45 PM:name=Canucck)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Canucck @ Dec 8 2012, 02:45 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042051"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->2.0, with 600dpi (14"/360). Everything Karnaj said is spot on.
You want to be moving your mouse with your arm instead of your wrist. It's more comfortable/natural, allows you to be more accurate with your mouse movements (it's easier to "feel out" 5" for a 180 turn than it is 5mm, and harder to screw it up), and can be moved just as fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Low sens on a big mousepad does allow for more precise aiming, but I wouldn't say the reaction speed is as fast as fingertip/high sens. Not having to lift your arm and drag your mouse around has it's advantages. :)
<!--quoteo(post=2042219:date=Dec 8 2012, 07:32 PM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Dec 8 2012, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042219"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Low sens on a big mousepad does allow for more precise aiming, but I wouldn't say the reaction speed is as fast as fingertip/high sens. Not having to lift your arm and drag your mouse around has it's advantages. :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Precision tends to be more important and harder to adapt than reaction timing. It doesn't matter if you react to the target in 150ms instead of 200ms if your mouse move puts you off the target entirely.
This is ESPECIALLY important for NS2, because the most vital aiming technique is mouse tracking, not twitch. Anything that gets in the way of your ability to track needs to go out the window.
Tip 1 - Find the sensitivity that fits your aiming style. Some people play low sens, some high. Nothing wrong or incorrect about either. Tip 2 - Try to focus on your crosshair Tip 3 - Dont focus on trying to aim, your only going to make yourself worse. Instead focus on your movement.
<!--quoteo(post=2042289:date=Dec 9 2012, 01:26 AM:name=xDragon)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (xDragon @ Dec 9 2012, 01:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042289"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Tip 1 - Find the sensitivity that fits your aiming style. Some people play low sens, some high. Nothing wrong or incorrect about either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The prior is obviously superior, but the second is much easier to perform. Other than that, try playing without a crosshair. Helps your aim when you turn it back on.
Also, the best measure of sensitivity is how far it takes you, in distance units (cenimters or inches), to perform a 180, and a 360.
Having a lightweight mouse is my personal preference, but the shape is what matters the most to me. I like the shape of the deathadder, which is my current mouse.
<!--quoteo(post=2042225:date=Dec 8 2012, 08:44 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 8 2012, 08:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042225"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Precision tends to be more important and harder to adapt than reaction timing. It doesn't matter if you react to the target in 150ms instead of 200ms if your mouse move puts you off the target entirely.
This is ESPECIALLY important for NS2, because the most vital aiming technique is mouse tracking, not twitch. Anything that gets in the way of your ability to track needs to go out the window.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I'm not so sure, twitch reactions are quite important as well. In any case, I've been using fingertip/high sens since the first time I started playing shooters. It felt the most natural to me at the time, and it's too late to change now. Which is also why suggesting drastic sensitivity changes is not the way to help someone improve his aim imo.
The mouse movement in the game vastly needs improving. It feels unlike any other game out there right now, it's not fluid and it's not smooth. I hope it get fixed, until then, anyone else helping you won't do much but tell you how they cope.
<!--quoteo(post=2042336:date=Dec 9 2012, 06:29 AM:name=Neoken)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Neoken @ Dec 9 2012, 06:29 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042336"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not so sure, twitch reactions are quite important as well. In any case, I've been using fingertip/high sens since the first time I started playing shooters. It felt the most natural to me at the time, and it's too late to change now. Which is also why suggesting drastic sensitivity changes is not the way to help someone improve his aim imo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It takes 1-2 days to get used to at most. It's not nearly as big of a deal as you make it out to be, and it's the best suggestion anyone could give
Comments
You want to be moving your mouse with your arm instead of your wrist. It's more comfortable/natural, allows you to be more accurate with your mouse movements (it's easier to "feel out" 5" for a 180 turn than it is 5mm, and harder to screw it up), and can be moved just as fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You must have some fairly odd bone structure if you are capable of more precise movements with your forearm than with your wrist / fingers. While a palm grip has its advantages over fingertip grip, precision is not one of them.
Compare a 12"/360 to 1.2cm/360. You want to do a 180 turn. If you "miss" and move 5"/5mm or 7"/7mm instead of 6"/6mm you end up either at 210 or 150. Obviously it's a lot easier to be off by a small margin than it is a large margin, making any minor movement errors pretty much negligible with lower sensitivity. With less room for error it's a lot easier to consistently track moving targets. The time difference between the 6" and 6mm movement is also negligible.
Also keep in mind that even if a target is only 10m away from you, you'll likely only move your mouse by <120 degrees in any direction anyway.
Thanks for the rest of the advice!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I've never heard of bunnyhopping as a marine to help you aim better with your guns.... Bunnyhopping as a marine in NS1 had some map speed advantages, and occasionally you could use it for a nice retreat, but it was pretty much never something you could use to help you hit aliens, it was more the opposite, you had to choose between shooting accurately and moving elegantly, part of being good at the game was making the right choice at the right time.
You can still do the backwards strafe dodge, although there's no airspeed gain from it.
Exactly, that's why your arm movement is for big movements, and your finger and wrist movement is for small movements. If your sensitivity is set up such that you primarily use your fingers and wrist for the wide large sweeping motions, then you won't have the sensitivity to perform the micro-accuracy maneuvers.
Offtopic: How can you see what sensitivity you have? Doesn't show numbers in games options and can't find config file. My sensitivity is almost at minimum but I compensate it with playing with 3200 DPI mouse.
i_sensitivity in console to see what it is, or look in ../steam/userdata/<id>/4920/remote/options.xml
i_sensitivity # in console to set it to something specific
1) Run around in a circle.
This is actually easy to counter as you can just strafe kite with them, leading them into your LMG shots. Start to strafe in one direction, then when they get into range suddenly switch and it'll totally throw off their positioning. Or if you're lucky you can take them out before they even get into range. If they're running right at you, sudden movements by them can cause you to miss a lot of shots, if you strafe to the side they have to adjust to come at you and you force them to come at you in a way you can track.
2) running from left to right, taking glancing hits.
This is also easy to counter as long as you notice it. I don't know whether this is easy for me as i enjoy playing skulk more than any other evolution and know the bite patterns, but you can get their biting pattern down after their second leap and just shoot where they land. Generally you'll be strafing left into the inside of their jump and then alternate to strafing right as they turn. If they fall to the left of you, when they turn to face you strafe towards them. Generally they'll over compensate and fly right past you on their following leap.
3) Frenzied jumping
This is actually almost impossible to counter except for exploiting a corner forcing them to take a linear path at you as they'll have to turn that corner to chase you and you can anticipate that move. The plus side is they'll usually miss you and exhuast their energy and mostly get glancing hits. If there are 2 skulks doing this however you're basically ######.
Jumping doesn't do much but leap you out of the FoV of aliens who bite your ankles. It fools the scrubs, but not really anyone else.
You should hide some around the side of crates etc so that you have to rotate to turn and hit it. You can then fly back checking how many you hit in case you didn't see the numbers popping up while attacking.
"disregorge my aimbot" or maybe "gorge damn im good". just some things to think about.
<!--quoteo(post=2042113:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:00 PM:name=Swiftspear)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Swiftspear @ Dec 8 2012, 02:00 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042113"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exactly, that's why your arm movement is for big movements, and your finger and wrist movement is for small movements. If your sensitivity is set up such that you primarily use your fingers and wrist for the wide large sweeping motions, then you won't have the sensitivity to perform the micro-accuracy maneuvers.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Low sensitivity -> palm grip -> forearm for broad movements, wrist for finer adjustments.
High sensitivity -> hybrid or fingertip grip -> wrist for broad, fingers for fine movement
That doesn't mean your fingers are glued to the mouse with palm grip and can't use them at all nor that your forearm is cast in stone with fingertip grip, it just shows where most of the work is being done.
While there is no bad choice per se and having to move the mouse 30+ cm for a 360 turn is perfectly normal for a sniper, in NS2 that involves frequent frantic melee with lots of spinning around? It just seems overkill. But each to his own.
Low sensitivity -> palm grip -> forearm for broad movements, wrist for finer adjustments.
High sensitivity -> hybrid or fingertip grip -> wrist for broad, fingers for fine movement
That doesn't mean your fingers are glued to the mouse with palm grip and can't use them at all nor that your forearm is cast in stone with fingertip grip, it just shows where most of the work is being done.
While there is no bad choice per se and having to move the mouse 30+ cm for a 360 turn is perfectly normal for a sniper, in NS2 that involves frequent frantic melee with lots of spinning around? It just seems overkill. But each to his own.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're incorrectly assuming that we're proponents of palm grip because we're saying that a majority of your movements in NS2 should be arm movements. They SHOULD be arm movements, but they should be arm movements from the claw grip. You often need to perform micro moves in ns, which is why you have your fingers and wrist, but you also more often need to suddenly react to a skulk biting your butt, or track a marine you just headbutted into at 60 miles per hour. There is no sensitivity setting that both allows you to do those things with only your wrist and fingertips, AND do the micro movements (picking off a parasite, pistol whipping a naughty skulk) accurately and efficiently.
You want to be moving your mouse with your arm instead of your wrist. It's more comfortable/natural, allows you to be more accurate with your mouse movements (it's easier to "feel out" 5" for a 180 turn than it is 5mm, and harder to screw it up), and can be moved just as fast.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Low sens on a big mousepad does allow for more precise aiming, but I wouldn't say the reaction speed is as fast as fingertip/high sens. Not having to lift your arm and drag your mouse around has it's advantages. :)
Precision tends to be more important and harder to adapt than reaction timing. It doesn't matter if you react to the target in 150ms instead of 200ms if your mouse move puts you off the target entirely.
This is ESPECIALLY important for NS2, because the most vital aiming technique is mouse tracking, not twitch. Anything that gets in the way of your ability to track needs to go out the window.
Tip 1 - Find the sensitivity that fits your aiming style. Some people play low sens, some high. Nothing wrong or incorrect about either.
Tip 2 - Try to focus on your crosshair
Tip 3 - Dont focus on trying to aim, your only going to make yourself worse. Instead focus on your movement.
This is wrong and incorrect
Aim where they are
Wait for them to get where you're aiming at
The prior is obviously superior, but the second is much easier to perform. Other than that, try playing without a crosshair. Helps your aim when you turn it back on.
Also, the best measure of sensitivity is how far it takes you, in distance units (cenimters or inches), to perform a 180, and a 360.
Having a lightweight mouse is my personal preference, but the shape is what matters the most to me. I like the shape of the deathadder, which is my current mouse.
This is ESPECIALLY important for NS2, because the most vital aiming technique is mouse tracking, not twitch. Anything that gets in the way of your ability to track needs to go out the window.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not so sure, twitch reactions are quite important as well. In any case, I've been using fingertip/high sens since the first time I started playing shooters. It felt the most natural to me at the time, and it's too late to change now. Which is also why suggesting drastic sensitivity changes is not the way to help someone improve his aim imo.
It takes 1-2 days to get used to at most. It's not nearly as big of a deal as you make it out to be, and it's the best suggestion anyone could give
Just stop being stubborn and do it :P