[Metagame] - "Art of the Bilebomb Rush" first 4 min. . .
MaximumSquid
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
Join Date: 2010-07-20 Member: 72593Members
I'd <a href="http://ns2stats.org/player/player/12331" target="_blank">seen people talk about it</a> and even try it a few times, but usually not enough people listen so the strat changes immediately
Today I got to share in a very rare treat
People on Refinery did the Bilebomb rush, marines responded with an organized counter attack, but we prevailed winning the game in the first few minutes
Here's the setup you want to use:
<u><b>Step 1:</b></u>
* Commander immediately drops the near hive to Marine base <i>(on Refinery this would be in Pipeline)</i>
<i>- Optionally the commander can also build a drifter and either send it with the main force or have it scout for a marine hive rush through middle</i>
<i>- Also optional is having comm go gorge in base to drop hydras and block a wall to slow down any counter rush while the other hive builds</i>
* Everyone runs down to pipe as skulk to clear out any rush that might be there <i>(usually 3-4 marines)</i>
<u><b>Step 2:</b></u>
* Everyone but two skulks go gorge and drop 2 hydras each and speed build the hive
<i>- If Marines are competent they will have time to mount 2 full assaults before the hive is built and they did when I played</i>
<i>- The second time they rolled in with shotguns but with hydras and gorge spit they got shutdown. . . only a few people died</i>
* Once the hive is up the commander immediately builds bilebomb and goes to join the team at the front line
<u><b>Step3:</b></u>
* At this point it's a standard balled up gorge rush where anyone who's a skulk transforms to Lerk or Gorge and you move into the marine base
* With Bilebomb the power goes out almost instantly, everyone drops their remaining hydras, and kills the chair
* You then immediately go around the map and kill all extractors; theres no need to stop, the gorges just take pot shots at the res while running by and it's toast
<i>- Also any hydras left in the Marine spawn will take care of cleanup</i>
* Have an easy time killing off the Marines at their second base <i>(they likely won't be all spawned yet)</i>
<i>- Anyone who dies during this will respawn and can easily help cover any weak rush that might be forming out of desperation</i>
<i>- Any gorge still alive though will still have Bilebomb even if rush on a hive is successful</i>
<i>- There isn't enough time to kill both hives before the gorges swing around the map</i>
---
It looked amazing on paper and I got to see it today against non-stacked team where both sides were organized
Here's a quick recap in case I forgot anything:
Once the 2nd hive is up it's almost impossible to come back from it as any forward base will get wiped out forcing marines to retreat
If you can get in their base for even 5 seconds the power is off and then hydras start going up in the dark
Any relocate gets crushed because nodes go down as gorges run past them without stopping
People who stayed skulk can assist any counter rush and will have the resources to go Lerk making cover that much easier
There's enough res left over to have a Drifter in middle to spot these rushes earlier or to spot a split rush where Marines go for both hives at the same time
Probably cliche, but I'll probably still get people telling me the strat is awful for <i>(speculative)</i> reason and what not
I'll stay positive though. . . Even the people that are sick of reading threads that I make about other commander's strats might find this one interesting
It requires the most organization of any alien strat right now, but it's quite solid due to how many bases it covers
-
Today I got to share in a very rare treat
People on Refinery did the Bilebomb rush, marines responded with an organized counter attack, but we prevailed winning the game in the first few minutes
Here's the setup you want to use:
<u><b>Step 1:</b></u>
* Commander immediately drops the near hive to Marine base <i>(on Refinery this would be in Pipeline)</i>
<i>- Optionally the commander can also build a drifter and either send it with the main force or have it scout for a marine hive rush through middle</i>
<i>- Also optional is having comm go gorge in base to drop hydras and block a wall to slow down any counter rush while the other hive builds</i>
* Everyone runs down to pipe as skulk to clear out any rush that might be there <i>(usually 3-4 marines)</i>
<u><b>Step 2:</b></u>
* Everyone but two skulks go gorge and drop 2 hydras each and speed build the hive
<i>- If Marines are competent they will have time to mount 2 full assaults before the hive is built and they did when I played</i>
<i>- The second time they rolled in with shotguns but with hydras and gorge spit they got shutdown. . . only a few people died</i>
* Once the hive is up the commander immediately builds bilebomb and goes to join the team at the front line
<u><b>Step3:</b></u>
* At this point it's a standard balled up gorge rush where anyone who's a skulk transforms to Lerk or Gorge and you move into the marine base
* With Bilebomb the power goes out almost instantly, everyone drops their remaining hydras, and kills the chair
* You then immediately go around the map and kill all extractors; theres no need to stop, the gorges just take pot shots at the res while running by and it's toast
<i>- Also any hydras left in the Marine spawn will take care of cleanup</i>
* Have an easy time killing off the Marines at their second base <i>(they likely won't be all spawned yet)</i>
<i>- Anyone who dies during this will respawn and can easily help cover any weak rush that might be forming out of desperation</i>
<i>- Any gorge still alive though will still have Bilebomb even if rush on a hive is successful</i>
<i>- There isn't enough time to kill both hives before the gorges swing around the map</i>
---
It looked amazing on paper and I got to see it today against non-stacked team where both sides were organized
Here's a quick recap in case I forgot anything:
Once the 2nd hive is up it's almost impossible to come back from it as any forward base will get wiped out forcing marines to retreat
If you can get in their base for even 5 seconds the power is off and then hydras start going up in the dark
Any relocate gets crushed because nodes go down as gorges run past them without stopping
People who stayed skulk can assist any counter rush and will have the resources to go Lerk making cover that much easier
There's enough res left over to have a Drifter in middle to spot these rushes earlier or to spot a split rush where Marines go for both hives at the same time
Probably cliche, but I'll probably still get people telling me the strat is awful for <i>(speculative)</i> reason and what not
I'll stay positive though. . . Even the people that are sick of reading threads that I make about other commander's strats might find this one interesting
It requires the most organization of any alien strat right now, but it's quite solid due to how many bases it covers
-
Comments
KKG games are mostly stacked when Squid and a few other regulars/admins decide to go on one team. Other players follow suit.
It's a pretty darn OP strategy if your team can get behind it and stay clustered enough for multiple heal-spray's. What are the Marines going to do to stop it? Carapace and Adrenaline would push it to unreal effectiveness, and even if it fails each player is out 10-20 P.Res while you've probably gutted the Marines infrastructure.
Bile bomb stays useful the whole game, and nothing about this strategy keeps the alien commander from continuing to drop hives and harvesters while upgrading further life form abilities in case the strategy does fall apart. If anything, it ensures a late-game victory by keeping the Marines in their base fixing all those high-cost structures you just destroyed. (Or if you got their CC, which isn't difficult with a whole team of bile bomb, they just lose outright.)
It illustrates that the most powerful thing the aliens can do is to fight structures for an easy win. It's true for both teams, but possibly more effective for the Aliens team since the Gorge's power curve mutiplies for every Gorge you have with each ability while remaining the lowest cost advanced life form. Bile Bomb stacks, heal spray stacks, and without a team full of shotguns I don't see the Marines pushing off such a rush without a good bit of luck or forewarning.
a gamble based on the stupidity and the complete lack of skill of the ennemy team isn't a metagame.
BallofGorge gets no love but the rare occasions it comes out it's beautiful.
a gamble based on the stupidity and the complete lack of skill of the ennemy team isn't a metagame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hmm...I don't think this relies on the stupidity of the other team at all. In fact, I think this would be equally effective in even a high-skill game. Bile bomb from around a corner with a shift with your whole team, lure in some fools, heal spray them to death, rinse-wash-repeat. You probably don't even need to fire from around a corner, although if you did I can't see an effective counter to it without grenade launchers or shotguns. With GL's being a non-priority early mid-game for most Marines, you can expect shotguns to be the most likely counter to be fielded and that's a close assault weapon. A mass of spitting gorges doesn't leave a marine much chance of closing to use it either.
If it's a smart team versus a smart team, I'd put money on the Gorge rush hands down. There is no denying this strategy requires a smart aliens team though, as there is no way a new player team could pull it off unless you're lucky and got an entire noob team that listens.
a gamble based on the stupidity and the complete lack of skill of the ennemy team isn't a metagame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah. Marines being organised would just kill the gorges with shotguns. Only time this should work is if they leave the base and you hydras and bile before they can react.
If it's a smart team versus a smart team, I'd put money on the Gorge rush hands down. There is no denying this strategy requires a smart aliens team though, as there is no way a new player team could pull it off unless you're lucky and got an entire noob team that listens.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah right. LMG > shotgun against gorges.
The counter to a gorge bilebomb rush is one 0-0 marine sitting in base with a LMG.
Bilebomb rushing is a painful strategy to face, it absolutely rapes your base if the gorge is good, and can sometime lead to your loss if you can't counter it in time.
If we're going into theorycrafting and aliens are working together, then let's bring the marine counter into the mix. You see a 2 Gorges healing each other while throwing some bile into the mix? I see 2 marines focus firing 1 Gorge at a time to destroy it. May have to dip into Shotgun research prematurely, but that takes care of both the Gorges and any supporting Skulks easily if the marines are good, which I'm assuming they are considering the teams are even. Welders are of course a must, but that's a given response to any rush.
I don't see how this is any more effective than the 0:01 second skulk rush. Half the alien team camp somewhere near marine base and hide themselves (may as well go Shade with camo first), other half plays delaying tactics but not kill a single marine, and then the assault force goes straight for the power node when Marines have pushed 2 rooms down. 3-4 skulks chewing on that node and it's curtains for the marine team unless they have a beacon or the comm gets out and drills those skulks fast enough. Even if it fails, the power node is seriously damaged with no welders and the other half can move in and finish it off. If going for the power node is boring, chew on the IP if there's only 1 of it around. Marines have power, but they can't respawn. Start picking off the Marines, chew on the power node, or the chair while the rest of the Marine team double back. There game ends in less than a minute...boring, but highly effective.
For the hell of it add a a drifter or two to the mix to ensure that those structures melt even faster while providing a rudimentary meat shield to the mix.
Bilebomb rushing is a painful strategy to face, it absolutely rapes your base if the gorge is good, and can sometime lead to your loss if you can't counter it in time.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah, sure. If you get caught completely off guard, fail to scout anything, and the commander fails to beacon. This is hardly a competent strategy, though. It's worse than a simple skulk rush, far later, and costs far more when it inevitably fails.
When the counter to your strategy is 0 pres basic marines then it isn't a very good strategy. This strat is akin to the FLAMETHROWER RUSH... because, you know, flamethrowers kill hives so fast they must be so good to rush. Same logic being applied to this idea of a bilebomb rush.
This would never work against any experienced team and would fail in a huge majority of novice pubs.
Two weeks ago on the Friday Night Showmatch, Clan MILK gorge rushed our base with simply hydras, spit and healspray. We were caught off guard by the sheer silliness of it, but it worked just the same.
it doesn't matter if it's 5 gorges or 5 skulks or 5 lerks...
OMG MARINES RUSH IMBALANCED WINNING GAMES 12/12 YESTERDAY OP STRAT HERE!!!!oneoneoneoneone
Then you have this scenario.
1) there are a lot of gorges and only a few skulks, so the 5 man marine team can easily take care of the skulks pulling back from the second hive (and the dead marines will simply phase back in).
2) the whole team is gorges and are far too slow to get back to the first hive in time.
3) the whole team is skulks, in which case the rines would probably still be rushing the unbuilt hive (as there are no gorges to build/heal it)
I see way too many issues with this strat, but if you can get to the point where you have bilebomb i think it can be effective with a drifter. 5 gorges with a drifter is very powerful assuming the comm doesn't pick up a big red blob on the map from the obs and beacon everyone.
The strategy relies on surprise and lets be honest - an inept commander.
Will probably work in some cases with average teams, but in high level play I think it is too easy to counter.
I didn't bother reading whatever crap lol lets have 2000 gorges with bile bomb in 20 seconds cos it will be epic pro is probably useless unless you go to lolkg and superstax like idiots.
If you wanna do a double hive rush your probably better getting cele-cara-leap skulks in the first 5 mins than bile bomb, then you can actually defend your hive and maybe even super build up a second (3rd hive) and have an 8-9 min onos
Two weeks ago on the Friday Night Showmatch, Clan MILK gorge rushed our base with simply hydras, spit and healspray. We were caught off guard by the sheer silliness of it, but it worked just the same.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You lost the game way before that, they totally res locked you with skulks by winning practically all the skirmishes everywhere on the map. The gorge rush was just for the show.
OK I've only had a chance to try this with Bitey and me on the same team in a pub, but I'm pretty sure it's a game changer.
dual exosuit is really strong!! mows down hives rather quickly. excellent at countering [Metagame] Camouflage Openings because WHO CARES IF THEY'RE INVISIBLE WHEN YOU HAVE TWO MINIGUNS :F
perhaps the [Metagame] Camouflage will shift back to [Metagame] Carapace to compensate for this strategy????
CONS
maybe it will be countered by [Metagame] Bilebomb Rush? I'm suffocating underneath all this strategic depth here.
... What on earth are you talking about? We never engaged or countered a single skulk that round.
The only time they Gorge rushed was on Mineshaft and they snuck past all of us in the vent above.
The only time they Gorge rushed was on Mineshaft and they snuck past all of us in the vent above.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i guess that was another match with another gorge rush i saw then, one commented by wasabione
i never remember names anyway
<a href="http://www.twitch.tv/naturalselection2/b/344293814" target="_blank">http://www.twitch.tv/naturalselection2/b/344293814</a>
47:30
<!--quoteo(post=2042151:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:05 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Dec 8 2012, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b> lure in some fools,</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2042151:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:05 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Dec 8 2012, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b> high-skill game</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2042151:date=Dec 8 2012, 02:05 PM:name=SpaceJew)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SpaceJew @ Dec 8 2012, 02:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2042151"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><b>heal spray them to death</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
KKG stacking is not evidence of a strategy being viable against a coordinated team or not.