I don't eee the balance issues. A couple maps do create balance issues as they are one sided. Mostly it is coming down to player skill and coordination though. I played for about six hours last night and saw more marine wins than alien wins. Both servers I played on had marines who worked together and that makes marines really hard to stop. I don't think you can say there is a balance problem if aliens are winning because marines don't work together. These are player problems, not balance problems.
I have only played pubs though. Maybe balance issues are easier to see in 6v6 scrims when both teams have skilled players and coordination.
Due to a multitude of factors (map balance, performance, and hitreg to name a few), I've noticed that aliens just have a much easier time when games are relatively even. I define even as in parity between both teams in terms of the K/D ratio. Aliens are forced to evolve some Lerks and Fades to create a stopgap for some players to save up for Onos.
The problem with this parity is that aliens can easily access their tech while marines struggle to hold their ground once 2-3 Onos start popping out at the 10+ minute mark. An even game then become heavily skewed towards the alien team until marines can muster up the proper upgrades to counter. Aliens then have several minutes to wreak havok on the marines and almost always the marines suffer heavy losses they cannot recover from. May as well recycle if aliens can push to a 3rd Hive while an Onos or two is still running around.
The alien midgame at the moment is ridiculously powerful so long as 2-3 players can evolve into Onos at roughly the same time. This problem is compounded by the fact that Alien comms can just drop Lerk/Fade eggs so players can still keep saving up for Onos while playing a more powerful lifeform.
Not to say that marines don't have their own advantages (pg, dat jetpack-shotgun), but they don't have anything similar to the Onos that early in the game (unless they manage to accumulate that much res early on, but then I doubt the teams are balanced if that were possible). You can't exactly take the Onos away at that stage of the game as it is the only viable unit aliens have once marines roll their tech barring hero Lerk/Fades. The joys of asymmetrical game balance I suppose.
Marines have to outplay the aliens to the point of delaying the Onos for a few more minutes. If that's the case, then the teams weren't really that even to begin with.
<!--quoteo(post=2045523:date=Dec 14 2012, 06:50 AM:name=Namm)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namm @ Dec 14 2012, 06:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045523"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Skulks are so mobile that making Xenocide that powerful would prevent any kind of Marine comeback (as rare as they already are). I'm more for a mutated Xenocide Drifter, fat and cumbersome and easy to intercept, only really viable against turtling Marines that never leave base.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Although it's difficult to actually prove I feel that Amb pretty well nailed it
If I get stuck on an alien team with a bunch of noobs I can still have a lot of fun, but being on marine with idiots is just nonstop pain I won't go Marine team unless I know there are people on there I can trust <i>(usually all it takes is knowing who the good Marine Comms are)</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This
To the guy saying refinery is throwing off the numbers, it can be easily won by marines. The map is terrible, I wont argue that one bit (and it's been terrible since release, lets not do anything about that UWE!) but it's very winnable.
Why? Because last time I prefer to play aliens, thats why. Oohhh yeahhh :>.
No, seriously .The pub-matches still depends on good players. It just need 2-3 no braindead marines with aiming skills to dominate aliens. I dont give a ###### to those "60%-win blabla"-stats. I see rines enough times winning the round.
<!--quoteo(post=2045254:date=Dec 14 2012, 12:41 PM:name=Bellicosity)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Bellicosity @ Dec 14 2012, 12:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045254"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dont be such a ######.
Go to ns2stats.org and just look at all the build 233 games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah.... about that, as someone already said, ns2stats doesn't run on even half the servers, probably less than one quarter, don't use ns2stats as proof. Come back with total data of all servers, then I'll take your post more seriously.
<!--quoteo(post=2045694:date=Dec 14 2012, 09:20 AM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Dec 14 2012, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah.... about that, as someone already said, ns2stats doesn't run on even half the servers, probably less than one quarter, don't use ns2stats as proof. Come back with total data of all servers, then I'll take your post more seriously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I beg to differ, you see Ns2Stats is run on almost all good community servers. Generally these servers have better hit reg due to better performance. These servers also tend to have somewhat better players because of the *modded* tag.
Overall this is a better indicator of game balance, win rates are notorious for being useless. Tf2's early stages had red wining 10% more then blue!
<!--quoteo(post=2045694:date=Dec 14 2012, 09:20 AM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Dec 14 2012, 09:20 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah.... about that, as someone already said, ns2stats doesn't run on even half the servers, probably less than one quarter, don't use ns2stats as proof. Come back with total data of all servers, then I'll take your post more seriously.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2045402:date=Dec 13 2012, 10:23 PM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Dec 13 2012, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Camo isn't op, if anything it's up. That is all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just wow. These and your thread about limiting the number of exos... Maybe you make decent posts otherwise and I just happen to stumble upon the bad ones. If that's the case I'm not happy to say it but based on these it is actually you whom I find very difficult to take seriously.
I think the hit reg problem is being blown completely out of proportion. There are much better reasons as to why Marines are losing constantly.
-I seriously question whether or not it's possible to balance Alien lifeforms with the current Alien Commander system. -The power node system allows Aliens to destroy Marine bases quickly and easily. Marines must beacon if one Onos is hitting the power node and a power node can normally not be saved when hit by 2-3 Onos. -Jetpacks are slooow and cannot be used to chase Onos to finish them off.
<!--quoteo(post=2045728:date=Dec 14 2012, 07:46 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Dec 14 2012, 07:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the hit reg problem is being blown completely out of proportion. There are much better reasons as to why Marines are losing constantly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
100% agree. The Videos made in reaction to the developers asking for "proof" of hitreg issues show that there IS a problem, but that more than 95% of bullets dont miss. So I dont think loosing 1 or 2 bullets MAX per lmg clip tips the balance significantly towards aliens...
Just select these servers, you get this: <img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QHrXYaiBL_8/UMuETHlNzeI/AAAAAAAAaRU/nI8vEQVPkxg/s1024/ns10.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> You get this as result: <img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hkrA9pibQ7A/UMuC0gxIYxI/AAAAAAAAaQ4/36qUAE4qPrY/s456/ns4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And now, just a deselect a combat server (you only see those in the name, there are more combat servers without it in the name... and indeed, the box isn't filtering these modded servers... (bug? i dunno) <img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SyS4VhbdpmI/UMuEVrldJcI/AAAAAAAAaRc/ibA6Bfrj7d0/s1024/ns11.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /> <img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4tQdG3ktxBk/UMuCz3ddx6I/AAAAAAAAaQs/t-_-JCCzPB0/s470/ns1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But, hey, ohnooo, how this is possible, almost 50%? Huh? Pls, use the numbers very well before send some conclusions into the world... ns2Stats shows the right numbers, but can't filter other maps then official/ modded servers etc. And this is just 1 example, in others, marines are winning more then aliens.
So this discussion is based on stats from combat servers and other mod-servers where aliens sometimes win 90% of the games. Also other maps are being played then the official-maps. What is this discussion worth?
Balance getting worse... i don't see it... You can't conclude this from ns2stats, sorry
<!--quoteo(post=2045758:date=Dec 14 2012, 11:42 AM:name=Paniohitus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paniohitus @ Dec 14 2012, 11:42 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Balance getting worse... i don't see it... You can't conclude this from ns2stats, sorry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
To the guy saying refinery is throwing off the numbers, it can be easily won by marines. The map is terrible, I wont argue that one bit (and it's been terrible since release, lets not do anything about that UWE!) but it's very winnable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> There's really no magic bullet. None of the maps are unwinnable. But the stats on refinery are quite in favor of aliens compared to the other maps. Currently refinery is at 65% alien win rate.
<!--quoteo(post=2045758:date=Dec 14 2012, 02:42 PM:name=Paniohitus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paniohitus @ Dec 14 2012, 02:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Balance getting worse... i don't see it... You can't conclude this from ns2stats, sorry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What do you pick then? I want to know... then we have stats. What is your source? Then we have a discussion.. i'm almost sure that most of players complaining on this forums goes to ns2stats, select all servers, select right version, look at the round, and then conclude marines loose most of the time...
but these numbers are even relevant, as eating a banana and conclude that aliens never win against marines.
Dunno what you are screenshotting, but when I look at NS2 stats with no mods, only build 233 I get 63.5% alien win rate. Including build 232, since wasn't any balance changes, and it drops to 61.7%
<!--quoteo(post=2045790:date=Dec 14 2012, 09:14 PM:name=TimMc)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TimMc @ Dec 14 2012, 09:14 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045790"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Dunno what you are screenshotting, but when I look at NS2 stats with no mods, only build 233 I get 63.5% alien win rate. Including build 232, since wasn't any balance changes, and it drops to 61.7%<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm screenshotting my screen, take the same settings. The conclusion are not in the screenshots, the conslusion is that you don't know what you see with 63,5%
What is that number 63,5%? What servers you selected, did you notice the 'no mods' box doesn't work? How you filtered the modded servers out? Did you know for sure there were no custom-maps played?
<!--quoteo(post=2045728:date=Dec 14 2012, 01:46 PM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Dec 14 2012, 01:46 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045728"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I think the hit reg problem is being blown completely out of proportion. There are much better reasons as to why Marines are losing constantly.
-I seriously question whether or not it's possible to balance Alien lifeforms with the current Alien Commander system. -The power node system allows Aliens to destroy Marine bases quickly and easily. Marines must beacon if one Onos is hitting the power node and a power node can normally not be saved when hit by 2-3 Onos. -Jetpacks are slooow and cannot be used to chase Onos to finish them off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very true as well. I still don't understand why the CC doesn't power the ip's, and the power node powers everything else. The other part of the problem is aliens don't have the things to spend p-res on like marines do, ohh and the 75 p-res marine lifeform has no chance in a 1v1 against the 75 res alien lifeform. (not saying that's how games work out of course)
<!--quoteo(post=2045714:date=Dec 15 2012, 05:19 AM:name=nailertn)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nailertn @ Dec 15 2012, 05:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045714"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just wow. These and your thread about limiting the number of exos... Maybe you make decent posts otherwise and I just happen to stumble upon the bad ones. If that's the case I'm not happy to say it but based on these it is actually you whom I find very difficult to take seriously.
My point was valid, your stats are incomplete, and my gripe with exos wasn't a problem with how they are designed, but instead with the idiots that often buy them, stupid people can easily ruin a game with them, too easily. I have no problem with the exo itself, you appear to have a problem with how camo works though. This isn't the thread to discuss that however.
The 2nd post you quoted was short because that's all I have to say on the matter, that is my opinion, and I don't HAVE to back up my opinion with fact unless I am trying to convince someone to see my point of view, which that post did not try to do, it merely expressed my opinion.
By design, marines are a bit over mediocre at everything, whereas aliens are supposed to be weak, but quick and agile, and their power should lie in numbers. What doesn't add up with the current state of things is that aliens are quick and agile, and strong, and their power grows exponentially with numbers, due to the chaos factor. Where to look for an aid for that situation, I don't know. Right now, aliens' lives don't matter - you can throw away skulks left and right and nobody will notice, and you don't need any kind of specific tech to get lifeforms, just got to be patient enough to acquire points. Whilst it's silly to compare both sides in such an asymmetrical game, it rather pisses me off that marines' pressure causes nothing but slowing down aliens on their path to victory, whereas destroying a seemingly unimportant marine structure by a lone skulk can bear fatal fruits for marines.
A solution? Make aliens more fragile, either by taking some health from them, making armor impact their health less, lowering their pres gathering rate, removing crags from the game (and I mean, seriously, kill three crags and a shade around a hive, damage the hive, retreat to the base to get ammo, come back, see the same three crags and a shade back up with the hive being of full health?), slow down their onslaught by modifying the cyst mechanic, make the marines' pressure and attacks actually matter. It's not even about marines not knowing how to play, it's about those, who know how to play, not making <b>any</b> impact on a semi-competent group of alien players' game.
Regarding pvp, and that's my personal insight filled with gross bitterness, you made the hitboxes overlap with the models, ergo harder to hit, but at the same time, designing the marines the way they are supposed to take advantage of range (lmgs, grenade launchers, miniguns, shotguns), you made the maps so clumped up, also adding vents and other ridiculous hiding spots/quick passages, that marines cannot move around easily and quickly, in groups or otherwise, whereas aliens can exploit that lack of maneuverability and just destroy them whenever and wherever. A base skulk health is 100hp, sure, not enough, but it takes 10 hits from an lmg to kill one, whereas if the skulk gets to you, you are a dead meat. Even though this is just all written on paper (screen), it actually appears to be how the games are played out. I can't blame you for assuming there is another way of playing them out, but at the same time, I remember you saying the game should be easy to pick up by anyone, and right now, it's rather unintuitive. Even if not for me, I'm forced to play with a lot of unexperienced gamers on a daily basis, and as an old-timer, it makes my blood boil. Let marines run around like aliens do while letting aliens soft-punish them for that, but also let marines punish aliens for being lone pests against their bases and you will see marines move out against aliens big time.
<!--quoteo(post=2045810:date=Dec 14 2012, 03:37 PM:name=yakcyll)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (yakcyll @ Dec 14 2012, 03:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045810"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->A solution? Make aliens more fragile, either by taking some health from them<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2045758:date=Dec 14 2012, 04:42 PM:name=Paniohitus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Paniohitus @ Dec 14 2012, 04:42 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045758"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oke, numbers and proove, here a simple example: .... Balance getting worse... i don't see it... You can't conclude this from ns2stats, sorry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not if you are going to artificially attempt to twist the results to further your own agenda. Swing and a miss.
Go to NS2stats, open the filters, deselect any server that has combat in the title. Now on the 'mods' side, deselect any CO_ map or 'combat' mod.
Now look at the stats. 65% alien wins.
So I give you a FAIL for trying to BS your way into this thread, but a 10 out of 10 for the trolling effort.
the main reasons are simply over and over the same.
Playing Marines is harder than playing aliens. Yes it is that simple.
The soldiers require teamplay to work or they die in horrible ways.
Commanding marines is way harder than commanding aliens.
A single skulk can ninja a phasegate in under 30 seconds...
A single gorge can destroy an entire base in under a minute.
Exos are too weak. 3-2 skulks can take out an exo that is alone if they got the average human ape brain and know not to charge at it directly.
An Onos doesnt even need stomp to kill 3 marines with assault rifles/shotguns. With stomp it can probably kill the entire team if theyre clustered together.
<!--quoteo(post=2046015:date=Dec 15 2012, 12:47 AM:name=TripleZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TripleZero @ Dec 15 2012, 12:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Exos are too weak. 3-2 skulks can take out an exo that is alone if they got the average human ape brain and know not to charge at it directly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Actually a single skulk can solo kill an EXO in just 7 seconds if all his bites connect for the full amount. By comparison it takes an Onos 6 seconds to kill an EXO. So for all intents and purposes a skulk is just as deadly as an Onos with respect to EXOs.
<!--quoteo(post=2046019:date=Dec 15 2012, 05:04 AM:name=Savant)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Savant @ Dec 15 2012, 05:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046019"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Actually a single skulk can solo kill an EXO in just 7 seconds if all his bites connect for the full amount. By comparison it takes an Onos 6 seconds to kill an EXO. So for all intents and purposes a skulk is just as deadly as an Onos with respect to EXOs.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah i was talking in terms of average players ;-)
I killed my share of lone exos alone as a skulk but those players were really bad.
<!--quoteo(post=2046015:date=Dec 14 2012, 07:47 PM:name=TripleZero)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (TripleZero @ Dec 14 2012, 07:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2046015"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->the main reasons are simply over and over the same.
Playing Marines is harder than playing aliens. Yes it is that simple.
The soldiers require teamplay to work or they die in horrible ways.
Commanding marines is way harder than commanding aliens.
A single skulk can ninja a phasegate in under 30 seconds...
A single gorge can destroy an entire base in under a minute.
Exos are too weak. 3-2 skulks can take out an exo that is alone if they got the average human ape brain and know not to charge at it directly.
An Onos doesnt even need stomp to kill 3 marines with assault rifles/shotguns. With stomp it can probably kill the entire team if theyre clustered together.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> For the LAST TIME. BAD PERFORMANCE! It's really that simple! Sheesh. And the hit registration. Enough with this balance nonsense and what's harder and who players better.
Comments
I have only played pubs though. Maybe balance issues are easier to see in 6v6 scrims when both teams have skilled players and coordination.
The problem with this parity is that aliens can easily access their tech while marines struggle to hold their ground once 2-3 Onos start popping out at the 10+ minute mark. An even game then become heavily skewed towards the alien team until marines can muster up the proper upgrades to counter. Aliens then have several minutes to wreak havok on the marines and almost always the marines suffer heavy losses they cannot recover from. May as well recycle if aliens can push to a 3rd Hive while an Onos or two is still running around.
The alien midgame at the moment is ridiculously powerful so long as 2-3 players can evolve into Onos at roughly the same time. This problem is compounded by the fact that Alien comms can just drop Lerk/Fade eggs so players can still keep saving up for Onos while playing a more powerful lifeform.
Not to say that marines don't have their own advantages (pg, dat jetpack-shotgun), but they don't have anything similar to the Onos that early in the game (unless they manage to accumulate that much res early on, but then I doubt the teams are balanced if that were possible). You can't exactly take the Onos away at that stage of the game as it is the only viable unit aliens have once marines roll their tech barring hero Lerk/Fades. The joys of asymmetrical game balance I suppose.
Marines have to outplay the aliens to the point of delaying the Onos for a few more minutes. If that's the case, then the teams weren't really that even to begin with.
Babblers?
Although it's difficult to actually prove I feel that Amb pretty well nailed it
If I get stuck on an alien team with a bunch of noobs I can still have a lot of fun, but being on marine with idiots is just nonstop pain
I won't go Marine team unless I know there are people on there I can trust <i>(usually all it takes is knowing who the good Marine Comms are)</i><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This
To the guy saying refinery is throwing off the numbers, it can be easily won by marines. The map is terrible, I wont argue that one bit (and it's been terrible since release, lets not do anything about that UWE!) but it's very winnable.
No, seriously .The pub-matches still depends on good players. It just need 2-3 no braindead marines with aiming skills to dominate aliens. I dont give a ###### to those "60%-win blabla"-stats. I see rines enough times winning the round.
Go to ns2stats.org and just look at all the build 233 games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah.... about that, as someone already said, ns2stats doesn't run on even half the servers, probably less than one quarter, don't use ns2stats as proof. Come back with total data of all servers, then I'll take your post more seriously.
I beg to differ, you see Ns2Stats is run on almost all good community servers. Generally these servers have better hit reg due to better performance. These servers also tend to have somewhat better players because of the *modded* tag.
Overall this is a better indicator of game balance, win rates are notorious for being useless. Tf2's early stages had red wining 10% more then blue!
<!--quoteo(post=2045402:date=Dec 13 2012, 10:23 PM:name=Ghosthree3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ghosthree3 @ Dec 13 2012, 10:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2045402"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Camo isn't op, if anything it's up. That is all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Just wow. These and your thread about limiting the number of exos... Maybe you make decent posts otherwise and I just happen to stumble upon the bad ones. If that's the case I'm not happy to say it but based on these it is actually you whom I find very difficult to take seriously.
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance</a>
-I seriously question whether or not it's possible to balance Alien lifeforms with the current Alien Commander system.
-The power node system allows Aliens to destroy Marine bases quickly and easily. Marines must beacon if one Onos is hitting the power node and a power node can normally not be saved when hit by 2-3 Onos.
-Jetpacks are slooow and cannot be used to chase Onos to finish them off.
100% agree.
The Videos made in reaction to the developers asking for "proof" of hitreg issues show that there IS a problem, but that more than 95% of bullets dont miss. So I dont think loosing 1 or 2 bullets MAX per lmg clip tips the balance significantly towards aliens...
Just select these servers, you get this:
<img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-QHrXYaiBL_8/UMuETHlNzeI/AAAAAAAAaRU/nI8vEQVPkxg/s1024/ns10.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
You get this as result:
<img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-hkrA9pibQ7A/UMuC0gxIYxI/AAAAAAAAaQ4/36qUAE4qPrY/s456/ns4.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
And now, just a deselect a combat server (you only see those in the name, there are more combat servers without it in the name... and indeed, the box isn't filtering these modded servers... (bug? i dunno)
<img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SyS4VhbdpmI/UMuEVrldJcI/AAAAAAAAaRc/ibA6Bfrj7d0/s1024/ns11.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
<img src="https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-4tQdG3ktxBk/UMuCz3ddx6I/AAAAAAAAaQs/t-_-JCCzPB0/s470/ns1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
But, hey, ohnooo, how this is possible, almost 50%? Huh?
Pls, use the numbers very well before send some conclusions into the world... ns2Stats shows the right numbers, but can't filter other maps then official/ modded servers etc. And this is just 1 example, in others, marines are winning more then aliens.
So this discussion is based on stats from combat servers and other mod-servers where aliens sometimes win 90% of the games. Also other maps are being played then the official-maps. What is this discussion worth?
Balance getting worse... i don't see it... You can't conclude this from ns2stats, sorry
EPIC STATISTICS FAIL
To the guy saying refinery is throwing off the numbers, it can be easily won by marines. The map is terrible, I wont argue that one bit (and it's been terrible since release, lets not do anything about that UWE!) but it's very winnable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's really no magic bullet. None of the maps are unwinnable. But the stats on refinery are quite in favor of aliens compared to the other maps. Currently refinery is at 65% alien win rate.
Cherry pick results more.
What do you pick then? I want to know... then we have stats. What is your source? Then we have a discussion.. i'm almost sure that most of players complaining on this forums goes to ns2stats, select all servers, select right version, look at the round, and then conclude marines loose most of the time...
but these numbers are even relevant, as eating a banana and conclude that aliens never win against marines.
I'm screenshotting my screen, take the same settings. The conclusion are not in the screenshots, the conslusion is that you don't know what you see with 63,5%
What is that number 63,5%? What servers you selected, did you notice the 'no mods' box doesn't work? How you filtered the modded servers out? Did you know for sure there were no custom-maps played?
-I seriously question whether or not it's possible to balance Alien lifeforms with the current Alien Commander system.
-The power node system allows Aliens to destroy Marine bases quickly and easily. Marines must beacon if one Onos is hitting the power node and a power node can normally not be saved when hit by 2-3 Onos.
-Jetpacks are slooow and cannot be used to chase Onos to finish them off.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This is very true as well. I still don't understand why the CC doesn't power the ip's, and the power node powers everything else. The other part of the problem is aliens don't have the things to spend p-res on like marines do, ohh and the 75 p-res marine lifeform has no chance in a 1v1 against the 75 res alien lifeform. (not saying that's how games work out of course)
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_%28statistics%29</a>
<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistical_significance</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
My point was valid, your stats are incomplete, and my gripe with exos wasn't a problem with how they are designed, but instead with the idiots that often buy them, stupid people can easily ruin a game with them, too easily. I have no problem with the exo itself, you appear to have a problem with how camo works though. This isn't the thread to discuss that however.
The 2nd post you quoted was short because that's all I have to say on the matter, that is my opinion, and I don't HAVE to back up my opinion with fact unless I am trying to convince someone to see my point of view, which that post did not try to do, it merely expressed my opinion.
A solution? Make aliens more fragile, either by taking some health from them, making armor impact their health less, lowering their pres gathering rate, removing crags from the game (and I mean, seriously, kill three crags and a shade around a hive, damage the hive, retreat to the base to get ammo, come back, see the same three crags and a shade back up with the hive being of full health?), slow down their onslaught by modifying the cyst mechanic, make the marines' pressure and attacks actually matter. It's not even about marines not knowing how to play, it's about those, who know how to play, not making <b>any</b> impact on a semi-competent group of alien players' game.
Regarding pvp, and that's my personal insight filled with gross bitterness, you made the hitboxes overlap with the models, ergo harder to hit, but at the same time, designing the marines the way they are supposed to take advantage of range (lmgs, grenade launchers, miniguns, shotguns), you made the maps so clumped up, also adding vents and other ridiculous hiding spots/quick passages, that marines cannot move around easily and quickly, in groups or otherwise, whereas aliens can exploit that lack of maneuverability and just destroy them whenever and wherever. A base skulk health is 100hp, sure, not enough, but it takes 10 hits from an lmg to kill one, whereas if the skulk gets to you, you are a dead meat. Even though this is just all written on paper (screen), it actually appears to be how the games are played out. I can't blame you for assuming there is another way of playing them out, but at the same time, I remember you saying the game should be easy to pick up by anyone, and right now, it's rather unintuitive. Even if not for me, I'm forced to play with a lot of unexperienced gamers on a daily basis, and as an old-timer, it makes my blood boil. Let marines run around like aliens do while letting aliens soft-punish them for that, but also let marines punish aliens for being lone pests against their bases and you will see marines move out against aliens big time.
Peace out.
wow
....
Balance getting worse... i don't see it... You can't conclude this from ns2stats, sorry<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Not if you are going to artificially attempt to twist the results to further your own agenda. Swing and a miss.
Go to NS2stats, open the filters, deselect any server that has combat in the title. Now on the 'mods' side, deselect any CO_ map or 'combat' mod.
Now look at the stats. 65% alien wins.
So I give you a FAIL for trying to BS your way into this thread, but a 10 out of 10 for the trolling effort.
Playing Marines is harder than playing aliens. Yes it is that simple.
The soldiers require teamplay to work or they die in horrible ways.
Commanding marines is way harder than commanding aliens.
A single skulk can ninja a phasegate in under 30 seconds...
A single gorge can destroy an entire base in under a minute.
Exos are too weak. 3-2 skulks can take out an exo that is alone if they got the average human ape brain and know not to charge at it directly.
An Onos doesnt even need stomp to kill 3 marines with assault rifles/shotguns. With stomp it can probably kill the entire team if theyre clustered together.
Yeah i was talking in terms of average players ;-)
I killed my share of lone exos alone as a skulk but those players were really bad.
Playing Marines is harder than playing aliens. Yes it is that simple.
The soldiers require teamplay to work or they die in horrible ways.
Commanding marines is way harder than commanding aliens.
A single skulk can ninja a phasegate in under 30 seconds...
A single gorge can destroy an entire base in under a minute.
Exos are too weak. 3-2 skulks can take out an exo that is alone if they got the average human ape brain and know not to charge at it directly.
An Onos doesnt even need stomp to kill 3 marines with assault rifles/shotguns. With stomp it can probably kill the entire team if theyre clustered together.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
For the LAST TIME. BAD PERFORMANCE! It's really that simple! Sheesh. And the hit registration. Enough with this balance nonsense and what's harder and who players better.