Love the game, one suggestion to improve public play
EiZON
Join Date: 2008-12-07 Member: 65687Members
Join Date: 2008-12-07 Member: 65687Members
Hi all,
Long time NS1 fan, really enjoying NS2. I'm not sure what all the "NS2 dying" stuff is about, when I play I struggle to find a slot in servers in my region, and the games are mostly great.
But I really think the game, for public play at least, could really benefit from some kind of comeback mechanism. I'm thinking each team could have a one-time use ability. You would only be able to use this ability once, per team, per game.
I think something like the commander being able to beacon all players anywhere on a map and relatively easily take the tech point (maybe the beacon damages enemy structures?). The ability could only be activated under extremely disadvantageous circumstances, and would happen after say 10 seconds, giving both teams time to have their map pinged as a warning.
I think this would break the monotony of the time-wasting turtle. If the team succeeds they break out of the turtle and have a chance at taking a second tech point, if not they will likely monumentally lose, but that's better than wasting 30 minutes turtling, or recycling ips.
I understand this may not be a good mechanism for competitive play, but something like this for public play might avoid the IP-recycle or F4-fest that some public players hate.
Or perhaps it's a horrible idea. Anyway, I also wanted to say I love the game, even if I did have to wait 6 years for it
Long time NS1 fan, really enjoying NS2. I'm not sure what all the "NS2 dying" stuff is about, when I play I struggle to find a slot in servers in my region, and the games are mostly great.
But I really think the game, for public play at least, could really benefit from some kind of comeback mechanism. I'm thinking each team could have a one-time use ability. You would only be able to use this ability once, per team, per game.
I think something like the commander being able to beacon all players anywhere on a map and relatively easily take the tech point (maybe the beacon damages enemy structures?). The ability could only be activated under extremely disadvantageous circumstances, and would happen after say 10 seconds, giving both teams time to have their map pinged as a warning.
I think this would break the monotony of the time-wasting turtle. If the team succeeds they break out of the turtle and have a chance at taking a second tech point, if not they will likely monumentally lose, but that's better than wasting 30 minutes turtling, or recycling ips.
I understand this may not be a good mechanism for competitive play, but something like this for public play might avoid the IP-recycle or F4-fest that some public players hate.
Or perhaps it's a horrible idea. Anyway, I also wanted to say I love the game, even if I did have to wait 6 years for it
Comments
Why?
Because people stack teams not purely "to win" but because they expect having more fun playing in the winning team. E.g. if I join a stacked marine team I know I will probably get Jp, Exo and all the cool stuff which I can use to attack and pwn Aliens instead of fighting the normal 15 minutes of turle-loss.
If I join a stacked Alien team I know I wont be shot every time I leave the hive for 15 minutes until game ends.
So if the game most likely ends once one team is down to 1 tech point and has noch chance to recover, there is not so much point in stacking teams anymore.
It would be more desirable to play in even teams because a team which feels they have a comeback chance despite losing a Hive/CC will not just surrender and therefore all players can enjoy a longer match or at least not half of the server has to "suffer" so much.
Comebacks, on the other hand, should not be a "get out of jail free card". Comebacks are the most epic of NS2 situations imo, especially when one side has a disadvantage in mid-game. It takes a concerted team effort, exploiting the enemy's weakness, damn good timing, or a combination of these to turn a game around. I wouldn't want this dumbed down to an emergency button. If you're down to one last base and the opposition owns the entire map, your team already lost in early to mid-game and there <i>should</i> be nothing you can do to salvage the match. Like Lofung says, it all comes down to economy and territory; these are usually determined by how well your team does early on.
In order to prevent an impending disaster, comms already have beacon. They just need to be vigilant for sudden rushes. Khamms, on the other hand, really need forward drifters or map scouting for the tell-tale black blobs of death. Aliens will be receiving gorge tunnels sooner or later, so it might alleviate sudden hive rushes.
This sums it up.
Being able to beacon for free won't make a difference when you're behind on res and map control.
Being able to beacon for free won't make a difference when you're behind on res and map control.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It will, it makes the marine base nearly impossible for aliens to get into and makes marine harassment absolutely free...
Comebacks ARE possible, in certain point of the game, but once you have been bottlenecked to 1 techpoint and 2 or max 3 resourcetowers, game is prettymuch over, and i don't see anything wrong about that ?
Aliens often seem to 'play with their food' and drag out their victory - which is why people want an alternative. No one likes playing a game they know they have no chance of winning. So if one team has a significant advantage, they should finish it - and if they don't I'm totally OK with having them LOSE the game.
I've been advocating for a 10-minute 'countdown' timer that could be activated when one team is down to their last tech point and res node. (not counting anything that has been recycled) So if aliens clear the map and marines are down to their initial spawn and one res node, then let the marines trigger a 10-minute timer, and if aliens don't defeat the marines in that time they lose. If the aliens - with 3 hives and 5+ res nodes - can't win the game in 10-minutes against a marine team without advanced tech like EXOs and such, then they deserve to lose.
Aliens often seem to 'play with their food' and drag out their victory - which is why people want an alternative. No one likes playing a game they know they have no chance of winning. So if one team has a significant advantage, they should finish it - and if they don't I'm totally OK with having them LOSE the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think this is exclusive to Aliens though. I have been on the the Alien side of Marines holding them in their base/egg locking them until they are practically total Exo/JPers before finishing the hive. Not necessary. They could easily finish the hive with some focus fire but they don't. They want TOYS!
How does a <b>one time use only</b> beacon to anywhere on the map make the marine base impossible to get into for aliens, and how does it make marine harassment absolutely free?
OP is suggesting giving marines a beacon to anywhere on the map so it will allow them to take over a tech point even when they're being pushed back by aliens. I'm saying that when you're already losing big on res and unable to withstand alien pressure, taking back one tech point won't change that much. Most likely it would only prolong the inevitable.
OP is suggesting giving marines a beacon to anywhere on the map so it will allow them to take over a tech point even when they're being pushed back by aliens. I'm saying that when you're already losing big on res and unable to withstand alien pressure, taking back one tech point won't change that much. Most likely it would only prolong the inevitable.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It might also hasten it.
If the team is so bad they are cornered in their base, beaconing the entire team away from that base in a gamble to take a fortified area will more than likely cost you your now undefended base.
Aliens often seem to 'play with their food' and drag out their victory<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Marines always want to force aliens to drag it out you mean.
Do you have any idea how many times I've leaped into marine base, ignored everything and chomped behind the CC only to have 3 guys rush back there to shoot me?
A huge portion of this comes down to map location, server size and organization (can they field a wall of onii that will actually charge in, or is it 8 disorganized players?) and whether or not the marines have A3/W3 and access to grenade launchers. It's not hard to pound marines down to one location, it can be very, very hard to get them OUT of that location when that's where their entire team is spawning, they still have most of their tech, and anyone who dies leaves his gear on the floor. Trying to dig marines out of Sub on Veil, for example (with it's nice long shooting gallery entrances and the power located all the way to the rear) is an exercise in grinding.
Aliens often seem to 'play with their food' and drag out their victory - which is why people want an alternative. No one likes playing a game they know they have no chance of winning. So if one team has a significant advantage, they should finish it - and if they don't I'm totally OK with having them LOSE the game.
I've been advocating for a 10-minute 'countdown' timer that could be activated when one team is down to their last tech point and res node. (not counting anything that has been recycled) So if aliens clear the map and marines are down to their initial spawn and one res node, then let the marines trigger a 10-minute timer, and if aliens don't defeat the marines in that time they lose. If the aliens - with 3 hives and 5+ res nodes - can't win the game in 10-minutes against a marine team without advanced tech like EXOs and such, then they deserve to lose.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
yeah, it's called marine "laststand", where you think it's very easy to penetrate marine base with those infinite resources, think again. It needs a lot teamplay from public games to pull it off, 2 onoses is not enough, 2 onoses and 3 skulks is not enough, hell, if they managed to get insane def in their laststand even 4 onos and 4 skulk is not enough ( yeah, i've managed to turtle 20mins in my lastbase and we killed countless of onoses with advanced armories blocking enterances and ARCS destroying nearby alien structures. )
usually the only time well made laststand is broken is when aliens discover lerk umbra, full team of marines with a3 w3 can EASILY kill 2-3 onoses that rush together.
so, instead of blaming the aliens for not finishing up, blame marines for not surrendering, there is no shame to f4 when the game is CLEARLY over, and it's over at the point where marine's can't advantage further than their 1 techpoint, and it doesn't matter how long the game has gone, whatever it's 5min or 50mins.
I keep saying this is part of the meta game commanders haven't developed yet and the use of Echo shifts could mean you can have 1 hive and keep all the evolution upgrades, only losing the ability upgrades like Bile Bomb does really damage the Aliens defence but focusing whips can also help with defences
Aliens often seem to 'play with their food' and drag out their victory - which is why people want an alternative. No one likes playing a game they know they have no chance of winning. So if one team has a significant advantage, they should finish it - and if they don't I'm totally OK with having them LOSE the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have seen marines do the same, particularly if they are achieving this with little to no exos.
This is why I will lave a server if I think a game is lost. Not because we lost, but because a 15 minute cycle of spawning to lowest life form or AR marine due to no res and dying with out accomplishing anything except maintaining turtle mode is boring. I like the timer idea but I think the alien side at least needs a new siege power that only becomes available when they have fully matured hives on all the tech points bar the marines last single tech point.
Speaking on multiplayer games in general, dominance should ideally slingshot back and forth with the stakes raising as the game progresses. This happens within most multiplayer shooters and it already happens to a degree within NS2. As each team goes up their tech tree, they become more effective and there is the potential for each team to dominate in turn as they each tech up. We've all played those games where one team has the upper hand and then suddenly, Onos, ARCs, a ninja rush on a hive etc.. But a decent portion of NS2 games don't play like that. As I mentioned above, one team gets early map control and then 20 minutes later they win.
It would be awesome if both teams had some notable resource - apart from player skill - that wasn't so closely tied to map control. Indeed, it would inevitably still be more effective with player skill and with map control. Bit I'd love to see a resource or tactical option that was still vaguely effective without either.
Mmm hump that power.
such horsecrap
trying to end the game as alien means bile bombing and waiting for people to onos since you have no ranged attacks, while marines are just sitting on a mountain of range spam attacks
Ending games as marines is certainly alot easier with arcs and JPs than it is with gorgies... but... gorge tunnels!
Speaking on multiplayer games in general, dominance should ideally slingshot back and forth with the stakes raising as the game progresses. </b>This happens within most multiplayer shooters and it already happens to a degree within NS2. As each team goes up their tech tree, they become more effective and there is the potential for each team to dominate in turn as they each tech up. We've all played those games where one team has the upper hand and then suddenly, Onos, ARCs, a ninja rush on a hive etc.. But a decent portion of NS2 games don't play like that. As I mentioned above, one team gets early map control and then 20 minutes later they win.
It would be awesome if both teams had some notable resource - apart from player skill - that wasn't so closely tied to map control. Indeed, it would inevitably still be more effective with player skill and with map control. Bit I'd love to see a resource or tactical option that was still vaguely effective without either.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
From what I can recall, I've seen more tug of war style matches in NS1 than in NS2. Maybe part of that problem is the speed in which one gains resources? I think Flayra wanted the average game time for NS2 to be around 20 min, no? And so the game is designed to be able to tech up and finish off matches in that time frame, no? That also means being behind on res nodes for a few minutes will be more decisive, and more easily snowball, leaving little opportunity to take back territory and turn the tide. If one would change the res gathering rate and/or increase the upgrade costs, games would probably last longer, but also leave more room (larger time frames) for both teams to make succesful comebacks when behind.
Aslong as the Proto itself isn't allowed without a 2nd TP that might work, might.
how about getting free onos eggs for every alienplayer in team when falling back to 1 hive ?... should be enough to rush all power nodes on the map to comeback to the game...