player matchmaking, commander confusion, ARC you serious?

lorenfisher

Hi there,

I just wanted to bring a few things to the discussion table today.

<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->1. Player Matchmaking
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<b>Players of vastly different skill are being matched against one another</b>
- This leads to highly imbalanced and not enjoyable games. Sometimes you join a server and your team mates are all new to the game and your commander has never even commanded before and it is a very unenjoyable experience. Other times, the other team is a premade team of pros that wipe the floor with you despite the fact that your team is playing reasonably well. Again, not a very enjoyable experience.
- A pro player can join a server supposedly flagged as 'rookie friendly' and slaughter the other team, making it impossible for players who are just trying to learn the game to have a real chance to learn. Not fun at all.

<b>What should unknown worlds do about it? </b>
- Player stats and match win/loss ratios are recorded. It's time to DO SOMETHING with those stats other than just look at them.
- Based on your tracked player performance (kills/deaths, average points per game, match win/loss ratio, etc), you will be placed into a league (Ex. Bronze, Silver, Gold, Platinum). This will be tracked separately for your performance as an alien versus your performance as a marine. So a player could be a platinum league marine, but simultaneously only be a bronze league alien.
- If you were commander a majority of a game, you will additionally be placed into a commander league (Ex. Bronze Commander, Silver Commander, Gold Commander, Platinum Commander) based on your win/loss ratio in games where you commanded. Again, marine commanding is tracked separately versus alien commanding.
- To quickly recap, players can earn a total of 4 badges: alien player, alien commander, marine player, marine commander

- Clicking the auto join feature now intelligently matchmake you into a server where the other players are the same league as you (or as close as possible)
- Clicking auto join will automatically put you into one of your favorited servers, if a spot is available.

- Server operators can set up a modded 'rookie friendly' server that only allows bronze/silver players onto the server.
- Server operators can set up a modded 'pros only' server that only lets gold/platinum players onto the server. Or anything between.

<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->2. Commander confusion
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The process of selecting a commander is not ideal. Sometimes no one goes commander because everyone else assumes someone else will do it. It's like a group of people all standing around a wrecked car assuming everyone else will call 911. There is a diffusion of responsibility. Other times, multiple people all want to command and run to the chair meaning the team is disorganized and not operating at full strength out in the field, which is crucial during the early game stage.

<b>What should unknown worlds do about it?</b>
- At any time, including before the game starts, all players will be able to <u>volunteer to command</u> or <u>indicate a preference not to command</u>
If a player volunteers to command before the game starts, in the TAB menu, beside the players name, a 'volunteered to command' icon will be a green checkmark
If a player indicates they do not want to command before the game starts, In the TAB menu, beside the players name, a 'volunteered to command' icon will be a red X.
- Your preference can be saved if desired so if you never want to command, you can passively make that information visible to all other players.
- You can set up separate preferences for Alien commanding versus Marine commanding. (So you can choose to passively opt-out of marine commanding while simultaneously passively always opt-in to command as alien)
- In the players list (TAB) the badge icons next to each players name will indicate: what league they are in for alien, what league they are in for marine, what commander league they are in for marine commanding, what league they are in for alien commanding. This, combined with the new volunteering system, will make it easy to work out who is going to command before the match starts

<!--sizeo:4--><span style="font-size:14pt;line-height:100%"><!--/sizeo-->3. ARC you serious?<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->

- I know marines are in need of some love right now game balance wise, because aliens are winning almost 60% of games right now (ns2stats.org Dec 1 - Dec 17 all games played) but that doesn't mean the developers have a green light to just ignore feedback about the ARC being cheeze
- On certain maps only, ARCS placed in certain positions will be within firing range of the hive, when you scan the hive.
- I'm all for players coming up with new strategies over time, including using units in ways that the developers could not have possibly intended... but this goes too far. It's very cheesy way to win games
- It is also boring for marines to just sit there and camp outside in some hallway turtling and defending the ARC's...
- Scouting what your opponent is building and countering that is a part of the game, but an Alien commander shouldn't have to deal with having their hive sniped from an ARC that can fire through walls while it sits in a highly defensible position. That's just silly.
- This is especially true on NS2 docking where there are three times as many great spots to park your ARC as there are on other maps
- Personally, I would suggest remove the ability for ARC to fire through walls entirely. ARC should only fire on things that are within direct line of sight of the ARC
- ARC would need to receive buffs to compensate for having to get closer to the enemy structures and being put in positions that are less defensible. Perhaps give them the ability to fire on units only in rover mode, and structures only in siege mode, and buff their armor and health overall. Would need lots of playtesting. Other idea would be to make the ARC something the marine can get inside of and drive. Again, two modes, siege mode attacks structures only, rover mode is basically a tank for the marine, allowing the marine a direct counter to Onos.

pendelum5

Matchmaking takes a long time to develop, implement, and debug. Players would have to wait in queues and have to deal with rage-quitters and troll commanders, which have more consequence when players are trying to maintain their rank. I'm fine with the server browser; it worked for NS1, and it can work for NS2.

I agree that too many games start without a willing commander, which may contribute to the high loss rate for marines. I'd like to see some sort of pre-game ready system, but that may come in the form of a community mod sooner than a UWE patch.

I think ARCs are fine as they are. Having them shoot through walls means aliens can't just turtle in their crag/whip farms the entire game. ARCs take extra damage when deployed. Scout them before they arrive at your doorstep and you will have a better chance at bile bombing them or forcing a beacon. They also force marines to guard them instead of extractors, so use that time to harass some resource nodes if you don't think you can break the ARC siege.

SpaceJew

I agree with most of your post, except for the ARC section. It would be nice to have a window to choose a commander before the game starts for both teams, and a serious imbalance in skill can make some matches very frustrating. However, splitting the game into variously skilled subcommunities might be a bad idea. Not saying that it is, since a lot of 'major' games have some type of ranking to enforce 'newb' servers. Even then though, there are people who will smurf just for giggles so I'm not sure how big of a difference it makes.

<!--quoteo(post=2047322:date=Dec 17 2012, 05:53 PM:name=lorenfisher)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lorenfisher @ Dec 17 2012, 05:53 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047322"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I know marines are in need of some love right now game balance wise, because aliens are winning almost 60% of games right now (ns2stats.org Dec 1 - Dec 17 all games played) but that doesn't mean the developers have a green light to just ignore feedback about the ARC being cheeze<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Consider the source, and consider that 'all games' includes Early Onos, tons of unofficial maps, and Combat game mode. That actually accounts for over 25% of an already limited statistic aggregate.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- On certain maps only, ARCS placed in certain positions will be within firing range of the hive, when you scan the hive.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm unclear if you want more seige or less, but juding from the rest of your post I guess less. Frankly, some maps need more and some maps need less. There is a definate map imbalance in useful ARC's, but that could be considered a good thing or a bad thing.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- I'm all for players coming up with new strategies over time, including using units in ways that the developers could not have possibly intended... but this goes too far. It's very cheesy way to win games<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not really, it's completely legitimate and not unfair. You can negate ARC's easily unless you only have one hive, or your team is consistently being outplayed by the defenders by a significant margin.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- It is also boring for marines to just sit there and camp outside in some hallway turtling and defending the ARC's...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Eh, maybe or maybe not. I'd tend to agree with you here, but nothing is technically stopping the team from charging into the hive to clear out aliens, eggs, and shoot the hive themselves.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Scouting what your opponent is building and countering that is a part of the game, but an Alien commander shouldn't have to deal with having their hive sniped from an ARC that can fire through walls while it sits in a highly defensible position. That's just silly.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If there's a nearby room the Marines like to siege from, like Bar or Central Drilling, put a drifter there. Good drifter placement helps <i>a lot</i> to make ARC's a lot more vulnerable to hits from your team.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- This is especially true on NS2 docking where there are three times as many great spots to park your ARC as there are on other maps<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Heh, yeah. It can be mean on Docking, but that map is a cluster f*** no matter what strategy gets used. Every room has so many entrances it gets silly fast.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- Personally, I would suggest remove the ability for ARC to fire through walls entirely. ARC should only fire on things that are within direct line of sight of the ARC<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
If you do that, why have them? You can already build turret batteries and sentry turrets.

Dwavenhobble

1) Its up to server admins / mods to maintain balance on their server. If they refuse to then simply refuse to play that server or organise a mass leave. I had an organised clan do this on my first day on the game. When I pointed it out all I got was abuse and "Get good stupid noob", so I said in chat.
"One slight problem, you guys need us here to play, we leave you have no-one to vs so either stop stacking teams or enjoy the result"
The reply way
"Hah what will you noobs do to us"
I suggested to my team we all leave the server.
The rest of my team left and the enemy team in the lobby was all
"wait where'd everyone go ? we can't play matches now"
I basically left the server after laughing at them for a bit and pointing out they brought it on themselves.

2) On the Arc subject. On certain maps there are issues. Personally I think cutting the arc range would remove these issues and get them to be the siege machines they are meant to be and still keep the ability to fire from cover near the hive, without them having the ability to fire it from easily defended non siege positions that are a far distance of normal non vent travel away from the hive.

Azaral

If arc's could not fire through walls they would be pointless to get. You have to get them so close already to hit the hive that if you could walk them into the hive that close, then you have already defeat defenses and can just kill the hive with marines.

Dwavenhobble

<!--quoteo(post=2047418:date=Dec 18 2012, 03:37 AM:name=Azaral)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Azaral @ Dec 18 2012, 03:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If arc's could not fire through walls they would be pointless to get. You have to get them so close already to hit the hive that if you could walk them into the hive that close, then you have already defeat defenses and can just kill the hive with marines.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Well its either less range or add new code to limit them to being able to shoot through only 1 wall / only X thickness of wall to stop some of the present tricks

Champlo0

<!--quoteo(post=2047454:date=Dec 17 2012, 10:20 PM:name=Dwavenhobble)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dwavenhobble @ Dec 17 2012, 10:20 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047454"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Well its either less range or add new code to limit them to being able to shoot through only 1 wall / only X thickness of wall to stop some of the present tricks<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'd love to see your reaction to NS1 siege.

SpaceJew

The only legitimacy I can give to this is that there should <i>perhaps</i> be a limit to how many ARC's you can have on the map at any one time. The current non-limit is probably a left over from when ARC's had a <i>horrible</i> refire rate.

At the same time, if you managed to build and hold 10 or 15 ARC's into an area, by God you should <i>own</i> that area's structures. It represents a 100+ T.Res investment, after all.

WildChicken

Maps are designed for ARCs (apart from Docking, that place is a nightmare). Look at the effective siege spots on Summit, there's only 2 or 3. Tram is better designed for ARCs, with a few crucial spots and some decent siege spots.

Omega_K2

1. Your matchmaking is flawed. KDR or points don't accuratly indicate how useful a player is. You can easily have a good/outstanding KDR without being very useful.
Point system is already flawed as it is.
It is almost impossible to implement properly though points; it requires very extensive work.

Same thing goes for com, simple W/L ratio is balls. Have you even played the game? If so, tell me how you can win with a team that completly sucks and gets outkilled and outsmarted by the enemy. You don't stand a chance from the very beginning of the game. Even more so, having an extremly good team can also win you the game, even if you do NOTHING at all. I've seen it happening multiple times, a decent marine team rushing into the hives, killing skulks and eggs and ending the game in 2 minutes. Same can happen as alien, well-executed skulk rush by the players, taking down the ip and cc before marines can do anything about it.

That is the extremes, and there is something inbetween there, but it is rather flawed. W/L doesn't make a com a good com just like a good KDR doesn't make a player a good player.

2. I somewhat agree, though it should be "60 sec wait time with opt-in option to vote for com". Seen this implementation, works great.

3. ARCs don't need a nerf. They have rather limited usefulness as it is.