League looking for potential custom maps

swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013 in Mapping
<div class="IPBDescription">To be tried out in a nightcup and then possibly be in regular seasons</div>Hey mappers!

ENSL is looking for custom maps for NSL as we feel 3 maps (summit, tram, veil) is a bit few maps.
To decide which maps should be incorperated into the season, we are planning a nightcup to take place after the season in febuary.

To have your map in the cup, your map needs to have occlusion culling, be fully textured, no major bugs(areas with no powernode assigned etc.) and have melee vs ranged in mind.

Currently we are considering these maps, we still need to test some of them internally, and others are trying to make the deadline in febuary:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113658" target="_blank">ns2_triad</a> by [=Alex=]
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115214" target="_blank">ns2_turtle</a> by evilbob with edit by Koruyo
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=109962" target="_blank">ns2_icarus</a> by Lazer
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116611" target="_blank">ns2_tengu</a> by hookeyed
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119182" target="_blank">ns2_jambi</a> by Remedy, Schkorpio, Braw, xtc, Alex, 3del, Yuuki, Martin K, Boobs!, Wayne and Joseph
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119994" target="_blank">ns2_honorguard</a> by [AwE]Sentinel
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120900" target="_blank">ns2_drydosity</a> by Mouse


If you think you have a decent map that could have competetive potential, and be ready for gameplay testing(ie. not bugtesting) in febuary, I encourage you to post here!

With this initiative, our goal is not just to get new maps for the league.
We will also try to be in dialogue with the mappers, and give them a good flow of useful feedback for their maps. And encourage the league players to do the same, so the maps can become better for competetive play and in general, even if they don't make it through the needle hole into the season play the first time around.
Cause in the end, it's the players that decide which maps they feel are worth competeting on in the season play.

Should your map not make it into the season play from this first cup, there will be a new cup just like this one after the next season. Where your map can be given a second chance, especially if it got improved in the meantime!

We are keeping a good eye on the map developments on these forums, and we have our eyes set on a few more maps than these listed above.
Some of these maps are in development, others are on stand-by. But judging from current stage of development, it didn't seem to us like any of these would be ready for febuary, so we didn't put them on our to-play list.
Here is the watch-list, we hope to see these maps make it to the point where we can test them out, and hopefully pick them up for season play:
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=112027" target="_blank">ns2_plant</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124399" target="_blank">ns2_caged</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=121506" target="_blank">ns2_entropy</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=117981" target="_blank">ns2_nancy</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=116097" target="_blank">ns2_tanith</a> (waiting for FMPONE's remake, since it seems like ssjyoda gave up further development)
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=115735" target="_blank">ns2_metal</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=120259" target="_blank">ns2_hera</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=125977" target="_blank">ns2_origin</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=110015" target="_blank">ns2_esoteric</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=124399" target="_blank">ns2_weather</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=111726" target="_blank">ns2_skyfalls</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=114064" target="_blank">ns2_rigging</a>
<a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=113762" target="_blank">ns2_serva</a>

We hope all these maps get to a playable state, as they all seem like they have great potential!
If you're the mapper of any of these maps, and expect to have a textured and well playable version for febuary, please let us know!
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Comments

  • xtcmenxtcmen Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
    Add ns2 Jambi to that list. Everything is done and it should be on the workshop in a few days after we continue smoothing out the performance.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    Do you have a thread on these forums with it?
    For feedback.
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  • FlaterectomyFlaterectomy Netherlandistan Join Date: 2005-02-03 Member: 39643Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, NS2 Community Developer, Pistachionauts
    Jambi is the community map.

    Link: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=119182" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=119182</a>
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  • JanosJanos Join Date: 2002-08-02 Member: 1050Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    It's name just so happens to be related to an awesome Tool song so it gets the thumbs up from me straight away.
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  • xtcmenxtcmen Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
    Swalk- release page and bugs page should be up in next few days

    Janos-one of the reasons why we chose the name was because of the song/meaning of word.
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  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    When is this cup? I didn't quite understand the schedule.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2047934:date=Dec 19 2012, 07:12 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Dec 19 2012, 07:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047934"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->When is this cup? I didn't quite understand the schedule.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <!--quoteo(post=2047735:date=Dec 18 2012, 11:01 PM:name=swalk)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (swalk @ Dec 18 2012, 11:01 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->To decide which maps should be incorperated into the season, we are planning a nightcup to take place after the season in <b>febuary</b>.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    :)
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  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    Alright Swalk. Its the "after the season" which confused me. Sounds good :)
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2047949:date=Dec 19 2012, 08:37 AM:name=Evil_bOb1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Evil_bOb1 @ Dec 19 2012, 08:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2047949"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Alright Swalk. Its the "after the season" which confused me. Sounds good :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Do you expect to have a new version of turtle at that point? Now I'm getting curious =)
    Could someone also give me the complete list of mappers for jambi so I can credit them for their efforts? :)
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  • xtcmenxtcmen Join Date: 2004-04-20 Member: 28040Members, Squad Five Blue
    Remedy
    Schkorpio
    Braw
    nc | xtc
    Alex
    3del
    Yuuki
    Martin K
    Boobs!
    Wayne
    Joseph
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  • Evil_bOb1Evil_bOb1 Join Date: 2002-07-13 Member: 938Members, Squad Five Blue
    I'm on a break so I've been mapping a bit lately and I definitely want to update turtle to 1.0 playability. Also bring something a little new to the table layout wise keeping turtle's spirit, a mix between an asymmetric 2fort map on the whole, the feeling of a starcraft map for the commander and the feeling of CS maps for fps players in a spaceship of natural selection. So like before it might break a little of NS2's gameplay guidelines and I don't really know how this is going to work :p But I hope to get this version set up during my break and it would be very cool to see what you guys have to say about balance, strategy and fun. I want to get this out how I see it first then hear what people will have to say if it needs some tweaks. :)

    But it still needs a lot of work!

    <img src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/42877240/tv1.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    Looks like Hub got more life :D
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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    Out of the maps in the "short list", jambi looks like the only one with potential.

    Turtle could also work, but the alien starting hive, and areas around that hive, would need to be redesigned from scratch.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050190:date=Dec 23 2012, 01:23 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 23 2012, 01:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050190"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Out of the maps in the "short list", jambi looks like the only one with potential.

    Turtle could also work, but the alien starting hive, and areas around that hive, would need to be redesigned from scratch.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I wouldn't discount ns2_triad, ns2_icarus, ns2_tengu and ns2_plant.

    We are thinking about fixing spawn locations for season 2 as well, we will likely make a poll on ENSL about that.
    The current idea is to revert summit and tram to fixed spawns, and maybe have aliens spawn randomly in warehouse/server room on tram.
    The goal with this is to remove the cheesy close spawns that disrupts the "normal" flow of the game, and generally leaves large parts of the map uncontested for the most part.

    triad would have spawning locations static as well, we are currently thinking about having aliens in the north and marines in the south, as those locations seems most appropiate for the teams, while not being close spawns. Both the eastern and western techpoints are too marine unfriendly to have them viable for spawns.

    icarus seems like it could have a good gameflow, and definitely one we should test out, currently it have some power bugs that Lazer is trying to fix in time for febuary.

    I've already playtested(pcw vs exertus) plant myself in the past, and if they have it textured for febuary, it's definitely one to give a chance as well, I think it can bring some interesting play.

    tengu's layout is pretty interesting as well. Though judging from screens, and walkarounds, I would say that it is currently marine biased, and more cover for aliens is needed. Adding geometry, props, vents, or simply downsizing some rooms can help with that.

    All the mappers need good feedback on their maps, so they have a chance of making them good for competetive play.
    That is why we are trying out the maps, so the mappers can see the problems for themselves, and hopefully fix them so the maps will be viable as season maps later on.
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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    Triad: Composed almost entirely of long open corridors and huge open rooms. Nope.

    Tengu: See above.

    Plant: Both alien and marine starting tech points have another tech point right next to it; making it almost impossible to deny second hive or second cs. I really don't think I need to say anything more than this. This looks like a joke map for pub servers. Also appears to have a nasty arc spot from crew quarters to railway station, but that is trivial problem compared to the tech point locations.

    Icarus: Will retract my statement regarding this one. I initially only looked at the overview picture in the first page of its thread, which made it look like a tiny, almost combat mod sized map. Later pictures show that it's gotten larger, so it might have potential.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050256:date=Dec 23 2012, 04:40 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 23 2012, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050256"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Triad: Composed almost entirely of long open corridors and huge open rooms. Nope.

    Tengu: See above.

    Plant: Both alien and marine starting tech points have another tech point right next to it; making it almost impossible to deny second hive or second cs. I really don't think I need to say anything more than this. This looks like a joke map for pub servers. Also appears to have a nasty arc spot from crew quarters to railway station, but that is trivial problem compared to the tech point locations.

    Icarus: Will retract my statement regarding this one. I initially only looked at the overview picture in the first page of its thread, which made it look like a tiny, almost combat mod sized map. Later pictures show that it's gotten larger, so it might have potential.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Triad generally have lots of good ambush spots to counter the longer lines of sight. I wouldn't say that this is too big of a problem on triad from the times I've played it.
    I agree that tengu is probably the least viable of the maps in the list because of line of sight problems. However, I feel that it deserves a proper gameplaytest as many of the rooms are very interesting and seems to have potential, even if LOS needs to be adressed in other rooms. The screenshots in the thread doesn't really show this though.
    The "close" techpoints on plant are far from impossible to deny, the games we had on it showed that, and that it have potential to be a great map. However, more broad gameplaytesting could prove that point wrong.

    The reason for us to play these maps in the cup is to get feedback on these sorts of problems for the mappers. Hopefully with footage to prove it, through shoutcasting. All this combined together can hopefully motivate the mappers to improve all the maps to make them viable for season play.
    The cup is not dictating which maps are going into the seasons, it's there to get some stats and feedback on the custom maps. They are made by community members, they need all the help they can get so they can make the maps better, and hopefully viable for season play.
    We will only pick up the maps that the players are happy with for the future seasons.

    Any thoughts on the spawning locations?
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  • killer monkeykiller monkey Join Date: 2010-02-26 Member: 70743Members, Reinforced - Shadow
    Does it matter if it has some greybox in it? By Febuary ns_origin should be about 90% done with textures and props.
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  • hookeyedhookeyed Join Date: 2007-08-26 Member: 62011Members, Squad Five Blue
    This is good criticism, and I'm glad I read this thread. I'm gunna go back and revise my designs with this in mind. I've been looking for a reason to redesign my corridors an I guess I should add more things to hide behind in the more open rooms. +1 for constructive critique
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  • JanosJanos Join Date: 2002-08-02 Member: 1050Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    I've completely stopped Serva and are focusing all of my energy on Hera, if I do pick up Serva in the distant future then I'll likely remake it, I wasn't comfortable with how it was starting to turn out.
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  • alibialibi Join Date: 2009-11-20 Member: 69445Members
    ^ I can say the same about esoteric. My time is much better spent with Hera :)
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2050282:date=Dec 23 2012, 05:54 PM:name=killer monkey)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (killer monkey @ Dec 23 2012, 05:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050282"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does it matter if it has some greybox in it? By Febuary ns_origin should be about 90% done with textures and props.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, your map have to be fully textured and be without any major bugs before the cup. There is always next season, no need to rush it!

    <!--quoteo(post=2050499:date=Dec 24 2012, 04:44 AM:name=Janos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Janos @ Dec 24 2012, 04:44 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050499"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've completely stopped Serva and are focusing all of my energy on Hera, if I do pick up Serva in the distant future then I'll likely remake it, I wasn't comfortable with how it was starting to turn out.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=2050504:date=Dec 24 2012, 04:55 AM:name=alibi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (alibi @ Dec 24 2012, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2050504"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->^ I can say the same about esoteric. My time is much better spent with Hera :)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah I noticed that those projects were put on hold, so I just put them on our watch-list.
    But I do hope you pick them up once you're done with hera. All your work looks brilliant. :)

    And merry christmas everyone!
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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    I don't really see why the map has to be fully textured? The important question is whether or not it plays well. One greywalled room wont break anything.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2051060:date=Dec 25 2012, 07:28 PM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 25 2012, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051060"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't really see why the map has to be fully textured? The important question is whether or not it plays well. One greywalled room wont break anything.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I see your point, but the cup is to test potential maps for the next season.
    Where would the border be for how much of the map that can be greyboxed, while still be in the cup? One room, or can the entire map be greyboxed? I think it's important to have a limit somewhere. Would you really want maps with greybox in the season play?

    I think that greyboxed maps are generally frowned upon in competetive play as it makes the maps quite similar to a whitewall hack that applies to everyone, and makes the aliens stand out more clearly. And could potentially affect how good some ambush spots are, and thereby the balance of the maps in some way.

    Maybe we could include them in the cup just to see how the gameflow is, even though were not gonna pick up maps with greybox in the seasons.
    On the other hand I think that could take some focus away from the other maps that <i>are</i> textured, we already have a decent amount of maps to playtest for the next season. I don't think it makes too much sense from the leagues point of view to playtest maps that are not ready, but it could benefit the mappers greatly.

    Generally I think it's best to wait until the maps are ready, before we playtest them for the league.
    But that's just my opinion. I think it needs further discussion.
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  • fanaticfanatic This post has been edited. Join Date: 2003-07-23 Member: 18377Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    Oh no doubt, I agree with you that entirely greyboxed maps should be out of the question. I don't think there need to be any other rigid rules than that, however. Just evaluate each map individually; how much of it is greyboxed will be a factor in that evaluation.

    In this particular case, the map in question was a remake of origin, which could be amazing. IMO that deserves a proper evaluation, not just a flat denial.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited December 2012
    <!--quoteo(post=2051156:date=Dec 26 2012, 01:35 AM:name=fanatic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (fanatic @ Dec 26 2012, 01:35 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051156"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh no doubt, I agree with you that entirely greyboxed maps should be out of the question. I don't think there need to be any other rigid rules than that, however. Just evaluate each map individually; how much of it is greyboxed will be a factor in that evaluation.

    In this particular case, the map in question was a remake of origin, which could be amazing. IMO that deserves a proper evaluation, not just a flat denial.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yeah, I looked at the map progress in his thread, evaluated from that, and what he told me in this thread.
    We will keep the map pool open until maybe a few days or a week before the cup begins.
    So nothing final on ns2_origin's(or any other maps) participation yet.
    Sorry if it seemed like origin had no chance of participation.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    Removed ns2_plant from the to-play list as Varathar told me they won't be ready in time.
    Hopefully we can get some other map in there to replace it.
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  • LazerLazer Join Date: 2003-03-11 Member: 14406Members, Contributor, Constellation, NS2 Playtester
    Just popping in to mention I've been working on Icarus again. Currently focused on improving the eastern side of the map and fixing any map bugs. Feel free to leave feedback in my thread or msg on steam.
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    <!--quoteo(post=2062925:date=Jan 19 2013, 12:47 AM:name=Lazer)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Lazer @ Jan 19 2013, 12:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062925"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Just popping in to mention I've been working on Icarus again. Currently focused on improving the eastern side of the map and fixing any map bugs. Feel free to leave feedback in my thread or msg on steam.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That is awesome Lazer!
    Hoping you can resolve the powerbugs before early-mid febuary, where we will hold the cup =)
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  • [AwE]Sentinel[AwE]Sentinel Join Date: 2012-06-05 Member: 152949Members
    Ns2_Honorguard is now in the workshop and I would be "honored" if you consider it for the cup. I had no chance to test it in a big group or balance it around feedback. But I am sure it could provide some interesting rounds with five very different starting points on random. And changes are still possible. Also the low prop count makes the map fast performance wise. I would also advertise Ns2_Yakushima, but I fear that the map is a bit too overloaded for competitive play :P
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  • swalkswalk Say hello to my little friend. Join Date: 2011-01-20 Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
    edited January 2013
    <!--quoteo(post=2064735:date=Jan 22 2013, 10:41 AM:name=[AwE]Sentinel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE ([AwE]Sentinel @ Jan 22 2013, 10:41 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064735"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->
    Ns2_Honorguard<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That map seems really good judging from the layout and the screenshots :) Way better than your previous map!
    However, I think completely random spawns would leave too much of the map unconstested in too many cases.
    My suggestion is to have the south-western techpoint for marine start, and the 3 north tech points for random alien starts.
    The last techpoint at south-east could be an expantion point for both teams, but I don't think it's good if any of the teams can start there.

    Some of the areas seem really dark which can have some negative gameplay effects. I can't really comment on how to improve your lighting other than creating some more lights. Try asking some mappers for advice on this, FMPONE or Mendasp would be my immediate recommendation.

    Is it 100% textured? I see some screenshots in your thread that are missing textures. Also mentioning about missing occlusion culling geometry. If you have that ready for mid-feb it could have very good chances of participation I think!
    At the moment it seems the cup will be the 16th-17th of febuary.
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