The Fear of Death in this game ?
Dwavenhobble
Join Date: 2012-12-14 Member: 175044Members
Join Date: 2012-12-14 Member: 175044Members
<div class="IPBDescription">What's with it ?</div>OK I get it late game if you're a higher life form or a Marine with some good tech but I've see a lot of Marines in standard kit and skulks simply waiting round when the enemy is about, no-one wanting to go in first. I know people don't want to sit out the respawn time but when there's 5 people sitting there and 3 enemies in the next room I really don't get people waiting for someone else to go first.
Normally I end up going first even and if my team mates are good chances are I won't actually die as either Marine or skulk as I get to distract the enemy and hopefully escape.
The funny thing is its often the people who follow me in who are more likely to die than me.
So why does everyone hate going first and leading the charge ?
Normally I end up going first even and if my team mates are good chances are I won't actually die as either Marine or skulk as I get to distract the enemy and hopefully escape.
The funny thing is its often the people who follow me in who are more likely to die than me.
So why does everyone hate going first and leading the charge ?
Comments
Sadly, the ones that typically do this are the ones considered veterans. The ones who are too scared to get a negative KPD. The ones that would probably do the most damage at the front of the charge.
Normally I end up going first even and if my team mates are good chances are I won't actually die as either Marine or skulk as I get to distract the enemy and hopefully escape.
The funny thing is its often the people who follow me in who are more likely to die than me.
So why does everyone hate going first and leading the charge ?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
well as marine if you're in a group like that you shouldn't go first and lead the charge. You should ask for a scan then go in as a team, People are far more likely to go in as a team when they know where the aliens are.
As alien I've never really seen the problem of people not charging into a room. Probably because retreating if going in wasn't such a good idea is far easier as alien. So no advice there.
As to people fearing death. They should, if you tend to die a lot in a game I would like you to look at something next time you play. Look at how much Pres you have after dying a bit and not spending your pres yet, then compare it to someone that hasn't died a lot and hasn't spent Pres yet as well. you'll notice they can be upwards of 10 res more than you and yet neither of you have spent any yet. Dieing denies you resources.
As alien I've never really seen the problem of people not charging into a room. Probably because retreating if going in wasn't such a good idea is far easier as alien. So no advice there.
As to people fearing death. They should, if you tend to die a lot in a game I would like you to look at something next time you play. Look at how much Pres you have after dying a bit and not spending your pres yet, then compare it to someone that hasn't died a lot and hasn't spent Pres yet as well. you'll notice they can be upwards of 10 res more than you and yet neither of you have spent any yet. Dieing denies you resources.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Actually I normally have terrible death numbers but on alien teams I'm normally 1st or 2nd to have the Pres for Onos and On Marine teams at end game I've normally got enough for a dual Exo or a number of spawns running of jetpack and grenade launcher.
Sadly, the ones that typically do this are the ones considered veterans. The ones who are too scared to get a negative KPD. The ones that would probably do the most damage at the front of the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Aren't you considered a veteran as well?
I personally do not have a problem with dying as long as it's actually worth it.
Especially marines still tend to play too defensively. It's ok to sit back for a moment and secure a forward position, but they tend to babysit the place afterwards and keep spamming away at a choke point without actually rushing through or attacking different parts of the map.
It's just that the act of dying in games "scares" some people enough so they behave "cowardly" like this. Maybe they are easily immersed in the game.
Sir, you, for sure, are a cynical persona.
I follow my team most of the time when they are going somewhere. As a pack you can even overcome superior forces!
As commander I even had to encourage 2 skulks and one lerk to attack ONE rine. 3 on 1 and they were sneaking around.
That is very frustrating.
I think the key is to use voice chat. typing takes too long and if you say something like "okey guys. we got this. let's attack. Everyone together. GO GO GO!
EDIT: I think people are too afraid to die due to the current PRES system, too.
I am suggesting a solution to that problem HERE: <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=126210" target="_blank">http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/in...howtopic=126210</a>
As marines though, I don't give a ######. I pile into any room that needs to be assaulted. The most annoying thing is when you find 3 marines standing in front of some clogs and hydras, too scared to run behind it and kill the gorge. Who cares if there are 10 skulks waiting for you. You aren't getting a damn thing done standing here.
It's even worse when they do follow you in and <i>don't</i> attack the gorge.. although you get that cutesy look from the gorge like "yeah your team sucks" and it's all worth it.
Sadly, the ones that typically do this are the ones considered veterans. The ones who are too scared to get a negative KPD. The ones that would probably do the most damage at the front of the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Hm well I would say a real veteran whose trying to win the game knows that his team is full of ######s and he has to go in first screaming GO on the mic to get his team to do anything. On the other hand though maybe thats why I usually have one of the highest death counts to go along with my highest kills.
Sadly, the ones that typically do this are the ones considered veterans. The ones who are too scared to get a negative KPD. The ones that would probably do the most damage at the front of the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2049174:date=Dec 21 2012, 07:04 AM:name=YMICrazy502)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (YMICrazy502 @ Dec 21 2012, 07:04 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049174"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Gotta pad that non important K/D ratio. I imagine if they implement stats it is going to suck HARD when everyone and their mother camps waiting for easy kills. I hope they never do a system like that but it looks like they might and it will ruin the game further.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much.
This is so when they lose the round they can point to the score board and say "Look at my KDR! I did my part, my team sux!"
It absolutely infuriates me. We can be a pack of skulks waiting to ambush, we say go, and no one moves. Everyone one wants someone else to "be the bait". Often times I find myself being the bait only to find no one ran in with me.
I don't mind being the bait. I don't mind dying without a kill in an attack, as long as we took the objective.
Sadly, the ones that typically do this are the ones considered veterans. The ones who are too scared to get a negative KPD. The ones that would probably do the most damage at the front of the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Amen.
I found out it works pretty well to have a microphone and yell "ATTACK! AFTER ME!!! FOR HONOUR AND GLORY!!"
Usually works ;-)
When it doesnt.... well its awkward really.
I dont give a damn about dieing as a skulk tho, i try to avoid it naturaly but not by retreating or camping.
People arn't being stupid =/. They're just immersed enough to play the game like they would in real life, where dying is generally avoided at all cost.
Don't you think you're being a bit harsh on people who've only just bought the game?
yeah, 0res is a lot of risk in this game, you're right \o/
now really, biggest reason why marine's lose is because they fear death and negative KDR, i remember in NS1 this was so huge problem that they blackened everyones scores and peace restored into the game.
now really, biggest reason why marine's lose is because they fear death and negative KDR, i remember in NS1 this was so huge problem that they blackened everyones scores and peace restored into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It's not 0 res, as you lose the pres you would have earned if alive. Also, it's one less egg for the team if you die. With that said, I still rush in trying to goad my teammates into action - I'm almost ALWAYS the first to pile into every encounter, and it doesn't seem to do my KDR too much harm tbh :)
Roo
Roo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As in, you don't gain personal res while you're dead - BUT you should not think so shortsightedly, since saccing yourself can often mean the team gains an rt or two, meaning IN THE END you've gained more pres.
Yes, marines for the past months and currently ARE TOO PASSIVE. It should be pointed time and time again that <b>THERE ARE NO ATTACKING OR DEFENDING SIDES. BOTH DO BOTH. SO IF ALIENS ARE PUSHING YOUR RESOURCE TOWERS, AND YOU'RE NOT PUSHING THEIRS - THE ALIENS ARE WINNING.</b>
I'm quite vocal on the voice chat though giving at least the minimum map awareness and the occasional moral boosters when attacking as a team. The thing is, just yelling and running in first and then expecting newbies to follow you is not something that works very often... Chaos is not a supporting environment in which newbies actually listen or do stuff that is remotely useful.
The thing is, we as "veteran" players in our public game adventures simply need to step back and explain some things or just show that squad leader stuff. So we can set up an attack/rush/ambush and make it obvious as to why were doing it as such. I'm not saying this is a 100% success rate, because most of the time it ends up in disaster, but at least they have this feeling of being part of something instead of just randomly seeing your team and yourself die...
The thing is "teamplay FPS games" aren't all the common these days, this is also the biggest hurdle for some players to get across...
I'm glad to explain and give advice.
<!--quoteo(post=2049243:date=Dec 21 2012, 09:50 AM:name=Kouji_San)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kouji_San @ Dec 21 2012, 09:50 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049243"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The thing is "teamplay FPS games" aren't all the common these days, this is also the biggest hurdle for some players to get across...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think it is more the teamplay than anything else. I run into enough people who's attitude is "I paid for this game, I'll do what I want". Aside from the steep learning curve, learning to rely on your team and learning that those other pixels on the screen are actual people is a pretty huge hurdle too. This isn't a problem specific to NS2, but team based multiplayer games as a whole.
I'll spend hours helping someone who wants to learn; I have no time for people that can't grasp that they are part of a team and need to act accordingly to win.
This so hard. People see a clogged up area and assume there is an entire fortress behind it so lets just sit here and wait until they get a bunch of Onos and then f4 and leave to mess up another game. Usually it is a lone gorge and all it takes is you to remove a clog and rush the defenseless thing. But they just watch. Or when you rush an enemy hive totally undefended and hope they will follow but they just stay behind and watch. And this is without a stat system. Marine lives are cheap.
Don't have a proper tactic for doing the same on marine side, though, since aliens don't have the need to reload or can really get distracted.
Don't have a proper tactic for doing the same on marine side, though, since aliens don't have the need to reload or can really get distracted.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I find myself doing that so much that I spend all the game dead and it isn't any fun.
It's annoying having to choose between playing properly and enjoying the game.
Sadly, the ones that typically do this are the ones considered veterans. The ones who are too scared to get a negative KPD. The ones that would probably do the most damage at the front of the charge.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Don't really think anyone considers overly cautious players veterans. The people at the top of the scoreboard often have a relatively high death count, but lots of building/unit kills too. Those players are contributing to their team far more than some low-scoreboard high-KD player.
Suppose I should re-phrase: I don't think anyone who understands how the game is played considers overly cautious players veterans.
Score / Hour is the best measure of skill we have currently, as it measures player performance/effectiveness better than anything else. It could stand to be improved (I'm pretty sure NS2 doesn't award assist score based on damage contribution, for example; and it would have to be smart enough not to count Ready Room time as Time Played) but as it stands Score is still reasonably good (certainly far better than any other stat the game or that stats website display.)
now really, biggest reason why marine's lose is because they fear death and negative KDR, i remember in NS1 this was so huge problem that they blackened everyones scores and peace restored into the game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I wasn't talking about losing pres, but losing ground and/or rts. Camping the alien spawn entrances often makes more sense than going in there dying.
It depends much on the map, map control and current tech. When marines are in a good position (like 5 rts) but don't have pg's yet, why would I risk to die at in the hive, giving the aliens the chance to take at least 1 rt down? Especially when I know that a lot of aliens just died and are likely to respawn the moment I walk in. I'd wait at the hive room entrance and just let the aliens come to me untill we might get a pg up. Camping their entrance means that the aliens <b>have</b> to deal with you instead of biting marine rts.
The other group of marines are more likely to kill an rt on the other side of the map when you pulled all the aliens to you.
Pub marines don't just lose because they don't kill alien rts, but also because they have no rts themselves.
HOWEVER- Too many people are afraid of pushing. They think that as long as they can hold the enemy, everything will be fine. Wrong. On either team, if you can coordinate an attack then you can win. This means TALKING WITH YOUR TEAM. It is usually never a good idea to go in alone unless you are absolutely sure of your skill and matchup. What people need to learn though, is you have to take chances to get anything done.