Cysts Appear on Scans
SpaceJew
Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
Join Date: 2012-09-03 Member: 157584Members
<div class="IPBDescription">This is a bad thing.</div>I just wanted to create a topic on this, not because it's super broken or OP but rather because it doesn't make sense.
I can see why it was added, because it's useful to know when the Aliens commander is cysting one of your bases. Ok, that's legitimate enough.
Having Cysts appear on active scans makes scanning a hive too cluttered to be useful. It produces a wave of blue circles everywhere on your HUD, but most of those circles are eggs, cysts, whips, etc. and determining which of those circles is something you should be paying attention to is difficult if not impossible. Certainly the <i>moving</i> circles are probably aliens, but which one of the stationary circles is a skulk waiting to ambush and which of them is a cyst?
Mostly a L2P issue, I would agree, but it makes scanning to highlight targets for Marines less effective. It makes things harder on good players too, since it clutters the HUD unnecessarily, while not helping new players in any concrete way outside of scanning for cloaked alien players. This is especially true if the alien commander over-cysts by a significant margin.
TL;DR:
Too many blue circles with scanning now.
I can see why it was added, because it's useful to know when the Aliens commander is cysting one of your bases. Ok, that's legitimate enough.
Having Cysts appear on active scans makes scanning a hive too cluttered to be useful. It produces a wave of blue circles everywhere on your HUD, but most of those circles are eggs, cysts, whips, etc. and determining which of those circles is something you should be paying attention to is difficult if not impossible. Certainly the <i>moving</i> circles are probably aliens, but which one of the stationary circles is a skulk waiting to ambush and which of them is a cyst?
Mostly a L2P issue, I would agree, but it makes scanning to highlight targets for Marines less effective. It makes things harder on good players too, since it clutters the HUD unnecessarily, while not helping new players in any concrete way outside of scanning for cloaked alien players. This is especially true if the alien commander over-cysts by a significant margin.
TL;DR:
Too many blue circles with scanning now.
Comments
too many circles
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109711986" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=109711986</a>
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=110832356" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=110832356</a>
ofcourse the minimap will still show all the red blips so you will know there are structures there.
EDIT: Gliss thanks you! that should make my life much easier!
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=109711986" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=109711986</a>
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=110832356" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...s/?id=110832356</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Are those blocked by consistency checks?
<!--quoteo(post=2049443:date=Dec 21 2012, 03:13 PM:name=mushookees)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (mushookees @ Dec 21 2012, 03:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2049443"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a simple solution would be to only have motion tracking work on players and not structures
ofcourse the minimap will still show all the red blips so you will know there are structures there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I think this is the most logical fix, to be honest.
maybe because people are interested in good gameplay mechanics and fundamentals, not "YOU ARE GETTING PUNISHED WITH CIRCLES ON YOUR SCREEN BECAUSE YOUR COMMANDER SCANNED HUEHUE THIS IS SO INDEPTH AND STRATEGIC"
Playing with low resolution is really bad now.
I don't know how it is in higher resolutions, but I think this circle needs to be smaller.
Making them fade out depending on the distance will help too.
It's a bad mechanic. I prefer aliens team, don't get me wrong, but it's absurd for scan to reveal stationary targets with little if any strategic value. I don't mind if it reveals targets like crags and whips, but cysts is just silly.
It also makes things like hallucinations completely pointless. Why use a hallucination when you can use a cyst?
(And yes, I think hallucinations were pointless even before cysts showing up on scans. I didn't think it was possible to make them <i>less</i> useful, but there it is.)
So instantly granted white target spots on aliens isnt detracting from good gameplay and fundamentals? How much of a handicap do you need to listen, look around, and pay attention to shoot something? If aliens cannot even hide in their own infested areas whats the point of even trying to set up ambushes. If anything this encourages some depth. You aren't even considering that this is a buff to aliens, this addition helps aliens on their own controlled areas and yes, actually makes the game more interesting. Marines have enough advantage with motion tracking as it is its pretty disgusting.
listen to yourself
how does being punished for scanning make any sense
it detracts from good gameplay because it discourages scanning <i>simply due to a single texture file being too large</i>. how does this NOT detract from good gameplay and point towards bad UI design?
if you wanted to implement some kind of mechanic where you want aliens to have an advantage on infestation, there are much more exciting ways to do it that revolve around actual gameplay instead of a silly graphics design choice that people can simply just replace the .dds file for.
also I'm not that type of person who modifies game files to get an advantage in a competitive setting, so I can't speak towards that.
It actually makes it <i>worse</i> as a cloaking counter in alien territory as well.
I honestly wonder if this was even an intended change or the result of tweaking something else. It just feels...wrong. I notice that part of the change log was fixing the cyst issue with cloaking, and I think this might be a side effect of that change rather than something intentional. Perhaps it just must be this way to fix the other problem. I don't know, but this is not a good fix.
I know it's not called motion tracking anymore, but it doesn't 'track' anything. It just seems to highlight <i>everything</i> the aliens build instead of valuable targets. I mean, when you 'ping' something are you really checking for cysts, or are you looking for something valuable to kill? I guess that's the real question. (Plus, you could see the infestation with a scan anyway. It doesn't <i>need</i> to be highlighted since it's fully visible as a bright green background.)
Why is every complaint on these forums objectively viewed from the marine side, and not for the strategy aspect of the game as a whole from both, cyst bluffing a base is awesome now and distracting.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
maybe because people are interested in good gameplay mechanics and fundamentals, not "YOU ARE GETTING PUNISHED WITH CIRCLES ON YOUR SCREEN BECAUSE YOUR COMMANDER SCANNED HUEHUE THIS IS SO INDEPTH AND STRATEGIC"
<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
The marines are punished because the alien commander decided to spam cysts in order to strengthen the area. The cysts are now distorting the scan's feedback, which is a good thing balance & strategy wise if you ask me. Don't make scan OP.
The marines are punished because the alien commander decided to spam cysts in order to strengthen the area. The cysts are now distorting the scan's feedback, which is a good thing balance & strategy wise if you ask me. Don't make scan OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That implies that scanning before was OP. If it was, I think commanders wouldn't be bellyaching like they are over the 3 T.Res cost of a scan.
Cyst spam shouldn't create a blue-circle overlay that blinds the player when scan is utilized. You could <i>already</i> skew results with drifters, crags, whips, and structures that cost more than 1 T.Res.
Again, this isn't an OP thing just a minor gripe. Keeping the UI minimal is good, and you shouldn't be blinded by your own abilities. (Flashlights come to mind though, lol. At least you can turn off atmospherics to make them usable, can't disable anything to get rid of tacky blue circles everywhere.)
The marines are punished because the alien commander decided to spam cysts in order to strengthen the area. The cysts are now distorting the scan's feedback, which is a good thing balance & strategy wise if you ask me. Don't make scan OP.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
you are defending a bad UI and converting it to a gameplay balance decision.
regardless of whether or not the balance decision is a) intended or b) works, the root issue is that the UI is poor. if you wanted cyst spam to be effective there are better ways of implementing it without hurting the game's UI.
the only good thing about mechanics like scan is that they are reliable. it's not even related to cyst spamming, either. scanning <i>at all</i> with <i>any</i> amount of aliens creates obscuring vision circles that make it an annoyance to track. why is this being defended as a balance choice when it's an obvious UI fix?
regardless of whether or not the balance decision is a) intended or b) works, the root issue is that the UI is poor. if you wanted cyst spam to be effective there are better ways of implementing it without hurting the game's UI.
the only good thing about mechanics like scan is that they are reliable. it's not even related to cyst spamming, either. scanning <i>at all</i> with <i>any</i> amount of aliens creates obscuring vision circles that make it an annoyance to track. why is this being defended as a balance choice when it's an obvious UI fix?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yep, I'm totally with you on this one. I don't think it has a darn thing to do with balance. It's cluttered, ugly, and restricts your vision field through taking an action that's supposed to help the player. I don't think you'll find <i>anyone</i> that seriously thought scan was broken before.
That's pretty much why I suspect the changes to cysts to fix the cloaking glitch as the culprit in this instance.
This was a very hilarious way to say something that makes sense.
Too many circles +1