<!--quoteo(post=2060578:date=Jan 14 2013, 11:12 PM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 14 2013, 11:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060578"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm both, I just bought a 15.6'' Samsung with an i5 for school, and immediately replaced the primary drive with a 120gb intel SSD. I can provide picture proof if you doubt either of these facts.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I'm not particularly interested to be honest especially to the extent of seeing proof by imagery, but the 32GB SSD that you showed me wouldn't even be sufficient to house my Steam library, regardless. Even an external SSD would be useless as it would be restricted by the speed of the USB 2.0 port data transfer speed. Your solution of buying an SSD isn't really a solution for a lot of us. You're an exception. Perhaps your wealth has brought with it ignorance.
<!--quoteo(post=2060612:date=Jan 14 2013, 06:19 PM:name=nsguy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nsguy @ Jan 14 2013, 06:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060612"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not particularly interested to be honest especially to the extent of seeing proof by imagery, but the 32GB SSD that you showed me wouldn't even be sufficient to house my Steam library, regardless. Even an external SSD would be useless as it would be restricted by the speed of the USB 2.0 port data transfer speed. Your solution of buying an SSD isn't really a solution for a lot of us. You're an exception. Perhaps your wealth has brought with it ignorance.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You're missing the point. I said get a 32GB for SSD CACHING. Not dedicated drive. You get nearly the same performance boost with no size limitations. I am by no means wealthy, and it's obvious by resorting to an ad hominem fallacy you're either trolling, or being deliberately ignorant. I offered you help, and I offered an extremely inexpensive option to gain a massive performance increase. You can choose to ignore my advice without being a child.
Vsync? Uh, I wouldn't think that would change pre-cache time at all.
Texture streaming. Now that helped load times. Before my SSD they cut pre-cache times noticeably. (After SSD, load times are ridiculously fast.) Although I still wonder if that isn't the low-hanging fruit for Load Optimization: since the game appears to pre-cache the exact same list of assets for every single map load, and theoretically it shouldn't have to pre-cache the same stuff after it's been loaded once in a session.
One of my favorite server mods caused a delay before the first round on a new map. Exactly what the game needs. That extra ~20 sec wait makes a big difference. (On servers without it (most servers) I will sometimes wait to join a team for the first round until after enough other players join and start the countdown; that way I don't contribute to an extra-fast map start. Especially for marines that can be painful.)
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
edited January 2013
anything more than one minute is not feasible. counter strike didn't suffer this issue as much due to the lack of rts/ commanders.. so give one minute warm up from first player joined, plus a requirement of two commanders. if you can't make that time hack, I don't see why everyone else should wait? typically getting two commanders takes long enough as is.
ps for those who wish to install a steam game on a separate hard drive Google symbolic links.
<!--quoteo(post=2060623:date=Jan 15 2013, 12:59 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 12:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060623"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You're missing the point. I said get a 32GB for SSD CACHING. Not dedicated drive. You get nearly the same performance boost with no size limitations. I am by no means wealthy, and it's obvious by resorting to an ad hominem fallacy you're either trolling, or being deliberately ignorant. I offered you help, and I offered an extremely inexpensive option to gain a massive performance increase. You can choose to ignore my advice without being a child.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"<i>It isn't extra hardware, it's basic hardware anyone with common sense should already own. I don't want to hear the excuse "I'm too poor for an SSD", because if you have an internet connection, food in your mouth, and a home to play and eat in, you can afford <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820171667" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820171667</a> which is $47.</i>"
That isn't advice nor is it helpful. It is in fact, and as you put it, an ad hominem fallacy; assuming that I or anyone else lacks common sense for not purchasing this extra hardware and thus is the problem. That's an attempt at insulting anyone who cannot go and purchase extra hardware. My claim of your ignorance is supported by your unjust assumption that if you can afford some goods you can afford more. By the way, we don't all live in the US where electronics are typically cheaper. In Europe we must pay twice the amount that you quoted, so it isn't as cheap a solution as you claim it to be. The cheapest of all solutions is for the developers to support their consumers, even those on the lower-hardware performance spectrum, especially considering the small size of the community.
This is even addressed as a problem (although not for the same reason but rather as causing a "slow start") in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_OS4SRKOMM" target="_blank">this video</a> at about 20 seconds.
Additionally this functionality gives people a "toilet break" between rounds, which might be appreciated.
<!--quoteo(post=2060641:date=Jan 14 2013, 07:33 PM:name=nsguy)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nsguy @ Jan 14 2013, 07:33 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060641"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->"<i>It isn't extra hardware, it's basic hardware anyone with common sense should already own. I don't want to hear the excuse "I'm too poor for an SSD", because if you have an internet connection, food in your mouth, and a home to play and eat in, you can afford <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820171667" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820171667</a> which is $47.</i>"
That isn't advice nor is it helpful. It is in fact, and as you put it, an ad hominem fallacy; assuming that I or anyone else lacks common sense for not purchasing this extra hardware and thus is the problem. That's an attempt at insulting anyone who cannot go and purchase extra hardware. My claim of your ignorance is supported by your unjust assumption that if you can afford some goods you can afford more. By the way, we don't all live in the US where electronics are typically cheaper. In Europe we must pay twice the amount that you quoted, so it isn't as cheap a solution as you claim it to be. The cheapest of all solutions is for the developers to support their consumers, even those on the lower-hardware performance spectrum, especially considering the small size of the community.
This is even addressed as a problem (although not for the same reason but rather as causing a "slow start") in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_OS4SRKOMM" target="_blank">this video</a> at about 20 seconds.
Additionally this functionality gives people a "toilet break" between rounds, which might be appreciated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Attempting to be eloquent and using italics does not make SSDs any less accessible. I was offering a solution, and you choose not to accept it. The rest of us should not have to suffer because you personally load slower. The world does not cater to you. You don't want an SSD? Fine, don't. Do not complain the game loads slower when there is an option.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Attempting to be eloquent and using italics does not make SSDs any less accessible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Italics are typically used in writing to indicate a quote. There is no attempt to do anything other than make the text easier to read, so relax.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The rest of us should not have to suffer because you personally load slower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waiting for 1 minute surely won't disturb you from your busy schedule. It will enable slow loaders to join the game from the start and it will prevent slow starts to rounds. God forbid you ever play an RTS. In those you have to wait for everyone to load the game before the round begins.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The world does not cater to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Likewise.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PS: You resorted to personal attacks again...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As did you, but I really think that you are being over sensitive since I did not intentionally personally attack you again, and in fact cannot spot where I did so.
I like the idea of "having two commanders" starts the round.
So: 1. Let everyone join the teams as normal (able to walk around, etc. in "round not yet started" mode) 2. After there is at least one player on each team, wait 10? seconds and unlock the comm chairs/hives (and indicate this to the players) 3. Wait until a commander is present on both teams 3a. A 60 second second timer could skip the commander requirement 4. Start the round normally (with the commanders staying in place)
Once they remove snowballs, we need a replacement.
I suggest adding a Dodge Ball Dispenser to the Ready Room, so you can show those aliens in the most humiliating way known to mankind who the real boss is.
I'm looking forward to the planned changes for round starting.
In the mean time, I bought myself an SSD specifically to put my games on (large enough as a boot drive with steam), because I'm able to afford it and impatient when it comes to load times. Now I, too, curse those slow loaders under my breath - we could have had this game started by now! But in all seriousness, it's not that big a deal. I have been using an SSD boot drive for several years now, and am constantly recommending them to friends and family. I like your suggestion of an SSD for caching as a lower cost solution for quicker load times.
Anyone looking to speed up their load times should seriously consider an SSD (scratch that, everyone should consider one anyway!), and bear in mind that decent speed boosts can still be obtained even if you can't afford an SSD large enough to fit NS2 (you don't need the whole of steam on it if you can't afford an SSD big enough for that!).
<!--quoteo(post=2060869:date=Jan 15 2013, 12:19 PM:name=CrushaK)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CrushaK @ Jan 15 2013, 12:19 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060869"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Once they remove snowballs, we need a replacement.
I suggest adding a Dodge Ball Dispenser to the Ready Room, so you can show those aliens in the most humiliating way known to mankind who the real boss is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"If you can dodge a [welder] you can dodge a ball."
<!--quoteo(post=2060864:date=Jan 15 2013, 05:11 PM:name=Racer1)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Racer1 @ Jan 15 2013, 05:11 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060864"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I like the idea of "having two commanders" starts the round.
So: 1. Let everyone join the teams as normal (able to walk around, etc. in "round not yet started" mode) 2. After there is at least one player on each team, wait 10? seconds and unlock the comm chairs/hives (and indicate this to the players) 3. Wait until a commander is present on both teams 3a. A 60 second second timer could skip the commander requirement 4. Start the round normally (with the commanders staying in place)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that everyone should be able to join a team and that there should be a warmup session as opposed to having to wait in the lobby. This way, those who invested in more powerful hardware get some kind of benefit out of it: guaranteeing a spot on their favoured team, although UWE isn't a hardware manufacturer so it shouldn't really bother them. If queuing were implemented in the lobby for joining teams then it would be possible to have players wait there without losing a spot on their favoured team, and would also resolve a separate issue of requiring that one run in and out of the team zone to join. However, I don't think it's necessary to wait for a commander to take the chair. For one, perhaps a team would rather all rush the opposing team's base. But generally, the problem isn't that no one wants to command, but rather people who want to command have not yet joined the team. This is likely one of the biggest causes of marine losses. If this were implemented I bet we would see marines win more frequently than they currently do (40% according to the statistics).
Comments
I'm not particularly interested to be honest especially to the extent of seeing proof by imagery, but the 32GB SSD that you showed me wouldn't even be sufficient to house my Steam library, regardless. Even an external SSD would be useless as it would be restricted by the speed of the USB 2.0 port data transfer speed. Your solution of buying an SSD isn't really a solution for a lot of us. You're an exception. Perhaps your wealth has brought with it ignorance.
You're missing the point. I said get a 32GB for SSD CACHING. Not dedicated drive. You get nearly the same performance boost with no size limitations. I am by no means wealthy, and it's obvious by resorting to an ad hominem fallacy you're either trolling, or being deliberately ignorant. I offered you help, and I offered an extremely inexpensive option to gain a massive performance increase. You can choose to ignore my advice without being a child.
Texture streaming. Now that helped load times. Before my SSD they cut pre-cache times noticeably. (After SSD, load times are ridiculously fast.) Although I still wonder if that isn't the low-hanging fruit for Load Optimization: since the game appears to pre-cache the exact same list of assets for every single map load, and theoretically it shouldn't have to pre-cache the same stuff after it's been loaded once in a session.
One of my favorite server mods caused a delay before the first round on a new map. Exactly what the game needs. That extra ~20 sec wait makes a big difference. (On servers without it (most servers) I will sometimes wait to join a team for the first round until after enough other players join and start the countdown; that way I don't contribute to an extra-fast map start. Especially for marines that can be painful.)
ps for those who wish to install a steam game on a separate hard drive Google symbolic links.
"<i>It isn't extra hardware, it's basic hardware anyone with common sense should already own. I don't want to hear the excuse "I'm too poor for an SSD", because if you have an internet connection, food in your mouth, and a home to play and eat in, you can afford <a href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820171667" target="_blank">http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx...N82E16820171667</a> which is $47.</i>"
That isn't advice nor is it helpful. It is in fact, and as you put it, an ad hominem fallacy; assuming that I or anyone else lacks common sense for not purchasing this extra hardware and thus is the problem. That's an attempt at insulting anyone who cannot go and purchase extra hardware. My claim of your ignorance is supported by your unjust assumption that if you can afford some goods you can afford more. By the way, we don't all live in the US where electronics are typically cheaper. In Europe we must pay twice the amount that you quoted, so it isn't as cheap a solution as you claim it to be. The cheapest of all solutions is for the developers to support their consumers, even those on the lower-hardware performance spectrum, especially considering the small size of the community.
This is even addressed as a problem (although not for the same reason but rather as causing a "slow start") in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_OS4SRKOMM" target="_blank">this video</a> at about 20 seconds.
Additionally this functionality gives people a "toilet break" between rounds, which might be appreciated.
That isn't advice nor is it helpful. It is in fact, and as you put it, an ad hominem fallacy; assuming that I or anyone else lacks common sense for not purchasing this extra hardware and thus is the problem. That's an attempt at insulting anyone who cannot go and purchase extra hardware. My claim of your ignorance is supported by your unjust assumption that if you can afford some goods you can afford more. By the way, we don't all live in the US where electronics are typically cheaper. In Europe we must pay twice the amount that you quoted, so it isn't as cheap a solution as you claim it to be. The cheapest of all solutions is for the developers to support their consumers, even those on the lower-hardware performance spectrum, especially considering the small size of the community.
This is even addressed as a problem (although not for the same reason but rather as causing a "slow start") in <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_OS4SRKOMM" target="_blank">this video</a> at about 20 seconds.
Additionally this functionality gives people a "toilet break" between rounds, which might be appreciated.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Attempting to be eloquent and using italics does not make SSDs any less accessible. I was offering a solution, and you choose not to accept it. The rest of us should not have to suffer because you personally load slower. The world does not cater to you. You don't want an SSD? Fine, don't. Do not complain the game loads slower when there is an option.
PS: You resorted to personal attacks again...
SSDs provide a performance gain, at a cost. If you want more voom, get one. If you can't afford it, don't. Simple.
--Scythe--
Italics are typically used in writing to indicate a quote. There is no attempt to do anything other than make the text easier to read, so relax.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The rest of us should not have to suffer because you personally load slower.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Waiting for 1 minute surely won't disturb you from your busy schedule. It will enable slow loaders to join the game from the start and it will prevent slow starts to rounds. God forbid you ever play an RTS. In those you have to wait for everyone to load the game before the round begins.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The world does not cater to you.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Likewise.
<!--quoteo(post=2060686:date=Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 15 2013, 04:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2060686"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->PS: You resorted to personal attacks again...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As did you, but I really think that you are being over sensitive since I did not intentionally personally attack you again, and in fact cannot spot where I did so.
So:
1. Let everyone join the teams as normal (able to walk around, etc. in "round not yet started" mode)
2. After there is at least one player on each team, wait 10? seconds and unlock the comm chairs/hives (and indicate this to the players)
3. Wait until a commander is present on both teams
3a. A 60 second second timer could skip the commander requirement
4. Start the round normally (with the commanders staying in place)
Once they remove snowballs, we need a replacement.
I suggest adding a Dodge Ball Dispenser to the Ready Room, so you can show those aliens in the most humiliating way known to mankind who the real boss is.
In the mean time, I bought myself an SSD specifically to put my games on (large enough as a boot drive with steam), because I'm able to afford it and impatient when it comes to load times.
Now I, too, curse those slow loaders under my breath - we could have had this game started by now! But in all seriousness, it's not that big a deal. I have been using an SSD boot drive for several years now, and am constantly recommending them to friends and family. I like your suggestion of an SSD for caching as a lower cost solution for quicker load times.
Anyone looking to speed up their load times should seriously consider an SSD (scratch that, everyone should consider one anyway!), and bear in mind that decent speed boosts can still be obtained even if you can't afford an SSD large enough to fit NS2 (you don't need the whole of steam on it if you can't afford an SSD big enough for that!).
Roo
Maybe if a commander gets in after the 60 second mark it should restart.
I suggest adding a Dodge Ball Dispenser to the Ready Room, so you can show those aliens in the most humiliating way known to mankind who the real boss is.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
"If you can dodge a [welder] you can dodge a ball."
So:
1. Let everyone join the teams as normal (able to walk around, etc. in "round not yet started" mode)
2. After there is at least one player on each team, wait 10? seconds and unlock the comm chairs/hives (and indicate this to the players)
3. Wait until a commander is present on both teams
3a. A 60 second second timer could skip the commander requirement
4. Start the round normally (with the commanders staying in place)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I agree that everyone should be able to join a team and that there should be a warmup session as opposed to having to wait in the lobby. This way, those who invested in more powerful hardware get some kind of benefit out of it: guaranteeing a spot on their favoured team, although UWE isn't a hardware manufacturer so it shouldn't really bother them. If queuing were implemented in the lobby for joining teams then it would be possible to have players wait there without losing a spot on their favoured team, and would also resolve a separate issue of requiring that one run in and out of the team zone to join. However, I don't think it's necessary to wait for a commander to take the chair. For one, perhaps a team would rather all rush the opposing team's base. But generally, the problem isn't that no one wants to command, but rather people who want to command have not yet joined the team. This is likely one of the biggest causes of marine losses. If this were implemented I bet we would see marines win more frequently than they currently do (40% according to the statistics).