Why do people rage/hack accuse when the marine team does well?
JAMESEARLJONOS
Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
Join Date: 2012-12-15 Member: 175155Members
Inspired by another thread, but in short:
Take a player who often puts up K:D ratios of 5:1 or better. If you put that player on an alien team, it's rare that people in the server will get upset. In fact, it's more likely that the player will get compliments on doing well from both teams. If you put that same player (presuming he's as skilled at marine) on the marine team, the end result is an endless cascade of hack accusations and often times a full ragequit from the alien team. Even on the broader team based level, the UWE servers often lose so many people that they die immediately following a marine win (even in cases when there isn't one exceptional player).
What is it about this game that incites intense rage when the marine side wins?
Take a player who often puts up K:D ratios of 5:1 or better. If you put that player on an alien team, it's rare that people in the server will get upset. In fact, it's more likely that the player will get compliments on doing well from both teams. If you put that same player (presuming he's as skilled at marine) on the marine team, the end result is an endless cascade of hack accusations and often times a full ragequit from the alien team. Even on the broader team based level, the UWE servers often lose so many people that they die immediately following a marine win (even in cases when there isn't one exceptional player).
What is it about this game that incites intense rage when the marine side wins?
Comments
Even if you are getting owned as marines you still have a chance to kill the person coming at you, i often enjoy it when some one on the other team is just way better then you are so you can get practice. Aliens on the other hands its frustrating as hell dieing before you can even within 20 feet of any one if some one is that much better.
As far as hacking goes, it's very easy for someone to think their opponent is cheating rather then the fact that they need to change their "run in a straight line at the marine, one skulk at a time" tactics.
try play counterstrike or any other FPS game with just the melee weapon, its fun if you can get kills, but when your opponents are skilled enough to not let you get close, it becomes frustrating and you soon go back to using guns.
Think the main alien strengths are sneaking around and dodging around marines. Wallhacks on a marine would be great for this and I've certainly heard people be suspicious of that when there is a marine that always seems to know where they are. And obviously aimbot would be fantastic.
Plus of course like other people have said, the frustration of having to melee someone with a gun can be very high when it's going badly.
just drop some bile bomb on the exo and at the same time it destroys the MACs? ...
That said, and a bit off topic, alot of people still need to discover the power of gorges. Bilebomb is a beast, on buildings, exos and even groups of normal marines. It negates the fact that marines build up their armor over the course of the game through upgrades and non-gorge aliens can take them out alot quicker. Alot of marines chase mindlessly after gorges to take them down, only to be killed by skulks/fades/oni nearby.
or
They are unable to comprehend how one can aim since they don't have the most recent and powerful computer hardware.
When I see a marine get 20:1 or some such kd ration, as an alien, he will do even better.
or
They are unable to comprehend how one can aim since they don't have the most recent and powerful computer hardware.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Pretty much <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect" target="_blank">this.</a>
And the fact that marine wins can be a slow up hill climb, leading to more time getting spanked as an alien.
Add in the fact that aliens have been enjoying a disproportionate amount of wins lately and you get the answer:
THEY MUST BE HACKING TO WIN AS MARINES!
What's with the marine bias, imo marines win much more games than aliens in pubs. Alien play reguires way more skill than marine, its been like this since the NS1. Nooblien is practically useless to alien team and is just eating egg supply but noob marine is often getting lucky kills here and there and doesnt really stress infantry portals that much, just point and press mouse1.
Now expecially because there are so much new players, marines tend to win way more games because: noob marine > noob alien. Im kinda even happy when i see aliens win when im playing marine because they definitely deserve it.
<!--quoteo(post=2051251:date=Dec 26 2012, 12:34 AM:name=Syknik)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Syknik @ Dec 26 2012, 12:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2051251"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->just drop some bile bomb on the exo and at the same time it destroys the MACs? ...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Let's get some numbers and math in here. Bile Bomb does 70 damage per second on a direct hit for 5 seconds. Exos take 20% corrode damage (because they are players). This means that a direct hit Bile Bomb does 14 damage per second for 5 seconds to an exo. That's 70 damage. At A3, an Exo has 580 armor. That means it would take 9 bile bombs to kill one Exo. Now, I'm not sure if MACs get bonuses from the armor upgrades, but assuming they don't, they have 300 health and 150 armor. That makes its effective health against bile bomb 450. That's 2 bile bombs.
EDIT: I was an idiot and forgot to do my math correctly.
Now put these numbers in a situation. You have multiple exosuits firing at you and your hive, while MACs weld them from behind them, and the exos are soaking up your bile bombs, or you're suffering lowered damage from having to get damage degradation from falloff on the splash. You may finally be able to take out the MACs, but they're cheap and easily replaced. Plus, they're fast once they're upgraded. Couple that with one welder out welding the Gorge's damage. So bile bomb is useless, the Onos teammates you have get torn to shreds before they can do their damage (which has been nerfed to 100 damage per hit), and there's only one solution. You may think it's Drifters, but they won't save you.
The actual counter to the Exo rush is to build three whips, mature them, then upgrade them with bombard. That's 90 Tres. Each bombard attack from a whip does 1200*0.2=240. It takes three whips to kill one exo before it can easily kill the whips during their 6 second reload time.
Right now, in most pub games, the key to winning as marines is to exo rush with a mac train. It's quite unstoppable.
What's that? You managed to get those whips ready, plus there are crags on them? Too bad. The marines have ARCs in the next room, down a hallway, guarded by those exos. Your whips are gone.
One or two exos may go down, but five of them will steamroll to the end of the game with only two options for the alien team... drop spare hives and bile bomb rush the enemy base (it actually won a completely lost game when we somehow had 200 res just sitting around to drop four extra hives in spots they hadn't stopped to rebuild, letting us run into their base and take everything out) or F4.
Why do alien players get so angry? Because all of the fun is being completely taken away from them.
One good player can ruin an entire team's enjoyment of the game. If he knows the good hiding spots, he'll kill you as he enters a room (you'll probably think WALLHAX!). If they're a good shot, all the bouncing in the world isn't going to give you the edge to actually survive the fight. If they see you before you see them, the netcode guarantees you will die before you can even think about reacting. Then you go back to a 12 second spawn timer (if there's an egg for you to spawn in).
And all the while, they have guns, and you have teeth.
I've been that guy who kills four people by himself on either side, and I don't like being that guy. Nobody likes playing with that guy.
It's like putting a bunch of average joes who work all day and never have time to exercise into a stadium against a bunch of pro athletes. They're going to get slaughtered, and it's going to build a hatred inside of them for whatever game they just got their asses handed to them in.
To have fun on the alien team, you'd have to have a chance, but you don't get one. There are plenty of ways to one shot kill an alien, but none to do the same to a marine.
The final answer to your question is because playing an alien is only fun when it's fair. As soon as somebody walks in and kills your entire team with a shotgun, then starts bragging about their "perfect accuracy", the server is going to empty, and fast.
I love Natural Selection 2. It is everything I've wanted in a shooter for years since the damn carrot on a stick treadmills became so popular, and I want to see it continue to thrive, but it's going to be hard to keep the rookies I play with going when they get stomped like that.
All I can ask is that the rest of you fine folks of the community help me in that endeavor until somebody finds a way to make aliens more fun and less of a lesson in prolonged agony.
EDIT: Actually, I think some marines do like that one alien guy who spams chuckle and taunt while bouncing around and scaring the crap out of their entire team, taking them down one by one. I'd find it hilarious.
EDIT: The situation I mentioned in which we countered the exo rush was only possible because nobody stayed to defend their base during their most vulnerable moments. It was an oversight on their part.
What's with the marine bias, imo marines win much more games than aliens in pubs. Alien play reguires way more skill than marine, its been like this since the NS1. Nooblien is practically useless to alien team and is just eating egg supply but noob marine is often getting lucky kills here and there and doesnt really stress infantry portals that much, just point and press mouse1.
Now expecially because there are so much new players, marines tend to win way more games because: noob marine > noob alien. Im kinda even happy when i see aliens win when im playing marine because they definitely deserve it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Your opinion that marines win more is wrong. There are stats that prove this.
Also, after having done a bit of Marine commanding with all the new players, I'm not sure I agree with you that noob marines>noob aliens. I think a lot of that has to do with Alien Kahms not being the strategic leaders that Marine Coms are forced to be. You have to be constantly giving new players direction, which seems to come more naturally to the Marine Com.
Also, after having done a bit of Marine commanding with all the new players, I'm not sure I agree with you that noob marines>noob aliens. I think a lot of that has to do with Alien Kahms not being the strategic leaders that Marine Coms are forced to be. You have to be constantly giving new players direction, which seems to come more naturally to the Marine Com.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I would like to see these stats.
Also, after having done a bit of Marine commanding with all the new players, I'm not sure I agree with you that noob marines>noob aliens. I think a lot of that has to do with Alien Kahms not being the strategic leaders that Marine Coms are forced to be. You have to be constantly giving new players direction, which seems to come more naturally to the Marine Com.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 stats isn't on every single server, so unless you've got the data UWE has access to, you might want to stop using those numbers.
Even if you are getting owned as marines you still have a chance to kill the person coming at you, i often enjoy it when some one on the other team is just way better then you are so you can get practice. Aliens on the other hands its frustrating as hell dieing before you can even within 20 feet of any one if some one is that much better.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This was pretty much the answer to the OP. When you're getting dominated as an alien it usually carries you getting killed repeatedly from across the room before you've even had a chance to get anywhere near them. Or if you did get near them it's even more of a slap in the face because you did almost all of what you were supposed to, but still failed. That's always going to be more frustrating then a marine going down to a pack of skulks, or a couple marines getting dominated by one really good skulk.
Take a player who often puts up K:D ratios of 5:1 or better. If you put that player on an alien team, it's rare that people in the server will get upset. In fact, it's more likely that the player will get compliments on doing well from both teams. If you put that same player (presuming he's as skilled at marine) on the marine team, the end result is an endless cascade of hack accusations and often times a full ragequit from the alien team. Even on the broader team based level, the UWE servers often lose so many people that they die immediately following a marine win (even in cases when there isn't one exceptional player).
What is it about this game that incites intense rage when the marine side wins?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Good question since there are no hacks out that I could see, after a quick google search. I can only think that Alien is harder to play/learn? I don't see many people that I recognize from beta throwing hacker accusations around. It's ALWAYS the new players. I feel your pain.
To borrow from Arthur C. Clarke:
"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
— Arthur C. Clarke
Now, adapted to games:
"Any sufficiently advanced gaming skill is indistinguishable from hacks."
At least as far as your average gamer is concerned.
Your math is off. It only takes two Bile Bombs to kill as many MACs as are within range.
Currently I'm more concerned about people mucking about with the visuals of the game...
Take a player who often puts up K:D ratios of 5:1 or better. If you put that player on an alien team, it's rare that people in the server will get upset. In fact, it's more likely that the player will get compliments on doing well from both teams. If you put that same player (presuming he's as skilled at marine) on the marine team, the end result is an endless cascade of hack accusations and often times a full ragequit from the alien team. Even on the broader team based level, the UWE servers often lose so many people that they die immediately following a marine win (even in cases when there isn't one exceptional player).
What is it about this game that incites intense rage when the marine side wins?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Dear James,
I've only noticed that problem when 2 or more crackshots stack Marines round after round, then proceed to rambo and spawn camp hive 1 from the beginning. I've noticed you do this quite often and there's nothing wrong with pressure tactics. However it's very lame and deserving of a rage quit by all Alien pub players because they usually cannot match your skill to prevent this. From my experience if you alternate teams each round, or even up the teams when they are obviously stacked, you won't have this problem very often. You'll find the opposing players warming up to you and your skill if you lend some of it to their team as well.
Competitive players want fun, rewarding experiences which means high K:D ratios or putting themselves in difficult situations (rambo), or even just some attention and drama about how good they are. Pub players want fun, rewarding experiences which means they get to try out higher life forms and EXOs without being crushed, pwned and spawn camped constantly. But the obvious point here is that competitive players have other avenues to achieve their satisfaction (pug/scrim/match), so why all the disregard for pub players? Nobody likes waiting in a spawn queue all day...
So I'll go ahead and satisfy at least part of that clause by saying this...Yes it is a fact, your skill level is far superior to the average pub player, so much that it may cause the whole team to rage quit.
You need to understand how statistics work before you tell people to stop using numbers. You don't need a 100% sample rate to make some very mathematically sound arguments. This is why polls that only interview 1000 people out of 300 million can still be ridiculously accurate.
So if you have counter-proof, the burden is on you to provide it.
Except you can't. Because it doesn't exist.
Taken about 20 minutes ago, I think I ended up going 50:1 ish then I was kicked from the server saying that I was going to make everyone leave the server, good times.
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