Xenocide cancel working as intended?
AlphaWolf
Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12175Members
Join Date: 2003-01-11 Member: 12175Members
Comments
I think it is worth doing to break a marine turtle if you have a lerk run in and spore, followed by one or two skulks using xeno. You can demolish a group of marines that way, only problem is such a thing is hard to set up in a pub.
lol People still think Xenocide is bad.
You would benefit yourself and the community by being a little less condescending to other members.
It <b>is</b> bad.
The only time I've ever seen it effective is on a 100 player server. There's just so many better things you could be doing than explode, nearly kill (but not kill) the 2-5 marines in the blast radius, just to have them get all their health and armour back in the armory while you wait ages to respawn and not get any res while that's happening. It's a 3rd hive ability.. and whilst 3rd hive abilities can't be as OP as they once were, it still needs to stand out as the better option than to just use leap and bite (and it currently isn't the better option).
On topic of OP - wouldn't know if it's a bug. Hopefully it is though - I like to think that once you start xenocide the wheels are already in motion and you shouldn't be able to stop it.
The only time I've ever seen it effective is on a 100 player server. There's just so many better things you could be doing than explode, nearly kill (but not kill) the 2-5 marines in the blast radius, just to have them get all their health and armour back in the armory while you wait ages to respawn and not get any res while that's happening. It's a 3rd hive ability.. and whilst 3rd hive abilities can't be as OP as they once were, it still needs to stand out as the better option than to just use leap and bite (and it currently isn't the better option).
On topic of OP - wouldn't know if it's a bug. Hopefully it is though - I like to think that once you start xenocide the wheels are already in motion and you shouldn't be able to stop it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You either need to have them hurt already to kill them or have someone waiting to play clean up and 1 shot all of them. Also you need to think that in NS2 then Alien commander can have Skulks spawning right outside of Marine tech points. Also no, Xenocide shouldn't just stand out as the better option. That would just be retarded. You shouldn't Xenocide 2 Marines and expect to one shot both of them. I'll start a Xenocide all the time as Skulk and cancel when I realize it's just one or two guys and I can bite them.
Also bile bomb + xenocide is effective.
Xeno usually sucks, 'cause of the super absorbable light damage, but since gorges can take armor away..
Neither of that is needed anymore in Ns2, since killing the powernode is all that matters and you even get punished for blowing yourself up (12 seconds respawn + no res). Xeno is the skill that suffered the worst from a couple of strange design decisions many ns1 vets dont really understand (no RFK instead res for being alive coupled with the PRES system, long alien respawn/short marine respawn and the lack of (edit: useful) base defenses as marine because marines have sprint).
Xeno usually sucks, 'cause of the super absorbable light damage, but since gorges can take armor away..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I never really though about that combo.
It is hit or miss though. You can either kill no Marines for 6+ Marines at once. I think the most I've seen die to a Xenocide was 7.
Xeno usually sucks, 'cause of the super absorbable light damage, but since gorges can take armor away..<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Xenocide is normal damage. I repeat, Xenocide is normal damage.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kXenocideDamage = 200
kXenocideDamageType = kDamageType.Normal
kXenocideRange = 14
kXenocideEnergyCost = 30<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
300 damage would make it kill marines point blank at all stages of the game, but do 150 to exos. Better than my original idea of "make it heavy damage".
Uh, no. This is a team game, where communication is essential. You get 2-3 skulks to Xeno rush into a ton of marines, and they're all dead. No if's, and's, or but's. Xeno isn't that great at 5v5, but in 12v12 servers it can be pretty broken. This is just because your higher lifeforms can then go in and destroy whatever they want, while in a 5v5 you just wasted 2-3 players(unless Oni are the backup lol).
tl;dr I think it's in a good place right now. Kind of niche though.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->kXenocideDamage = 200
kXenocideDamageType = kDamageType.Normal
kXenocideRange = 14
kXenocideEnergyCost = 30<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
300 damage would make it kill marines point blank at all stages of the game, but do 150 to exos. Better than my original idea of "make it heavy damage".<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2052812:date=Dec 29 2012, 07:01 AM:name=SixtyWattMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SixtyWattMan @ Dec 29 2012, 07:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2052812"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yeah I never really though about that combo.
It is hit or miss though. You can either kill no Marines for 6+ Marines at once. I think the most I've seen die to a Xenocide was 7.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Thought it did light damage when I posted that, so you can disregard what I said from that post.
However bile bomb sill makes xeno more effective since it gets rid of armor.
Get a few bites off of one marine or several, and you have a skill kill or two rather than a faceroll charge in and explode.
However bile bomb sill makes xeno more effective since it gets rid of armor.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Not your fault, a lot of people seem to think that. I can only assume they're comparing it to mines or using outdated information.
1.) Significantly reduced respawn time after use. Using Xeno should guarantee a 4 second respawn time that's independent of the usual spawn timer. Meaning that the most you lose for executing a xenocide is the travel time, as opposed to potentially getting caught in a 15+ second spawn timer.
2.) Dying from a self-induced xenocide shouldn't count as a death on the score screen. Most people don't really like annihilating their k/d ratio, even if it has zero impact on winning or losing the game.
Xenocide would actually be useful for breaking turtles if you combined a shift with the first change. You could put on a constant stream of xenocide pressure that would absolutely cripple a marine team that couldn't push out and kill the shift. Meaning you'd have the ability to actually end the game without mass onos/bile bomb for a change.
<!--c1--><div class='codetop'>CODE</div><div class='codemain'><!--ec1-->function XenocideLeap:OnHolster(player)
if self.xenocideGui ~= nil then
GetGUIManager():DestroyGUIScript(self.xenocideGui)
self.xenocideGui = nil
end
self.xenociding = false
end<!--c2--></div><!--ec2-->
It is. Someone's willing to theory craft or make some obscure scenario for why any given ability is useful. All you have to do is look at the average kills per xenoed skulk. They are well below 1. It's bad. If for every xeno 0.9 kills were made on average I'd still argue that it's weaker than it should be, but I wouldn't have said "it's bad". It's no where near that high. I'd be VERY surprised to find a single player who has pulled their ratio above 1. Feel free to post the some demos that prove me wrong though.
It's absurdly difficult to use Xeno in a way that it's not a waste of your time. If you Xeno an armor 3 marine, it still takes 2 full damage skulk bites to kill him. 1 skulk bite and a xeno can't even kill a marine. It's relegated to extremely obscure and unlikely scenarios. A group of marines is bile bombed or spored and they are somehow too far away from an armory to heal up before it's too late. It's a one in a billion event.
Xeno is bad.
Yesterday I was playing a game where I went lerk and spored the marine base while the skulks all ran in and xeno, a strat I described earlier in this thread, it was pretty fun and it worked well, none of the skulks died without killing something, all of them killing at least two marines, some up to four.
It's absurdly difficult to use Xeno in a way that it's not a waste of your time. If you Xeno an armor 3 marine, it still takes 2 full damage skulk bites to kill him. 1 skulk bite and a xeno can't even kill a marine. It's relegated to extremely obscure and unlikely scenarios. A group of marines is bile bombed or spored and they are somehow too far away from an armory to heal up before it's too late. It's a one in a billion event.
Xeno is bad.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMG5LK-zLDQ&list=UUXsZ51-dhYebMQclLL0U50Q&index=1" target="_blank">It's a bad ability in NS2, but it is fun.</a>
Is this working as intended, or is it a bug?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
As I have said from the very start, fix this and Xenocide will be perfect.
The problem isnt with xenocides effectiveness (the damage is pretty good) the problem is that it forces the player to wait in order to use it whilst doing nothing productive (dodging bullets isnt productive).
What about giving them xenocide?
Boom.
What about giving them xenocide?
Boom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I have never heard a worse idea. Unless, of course, it cost 200 Tres to research, 75 pres to go Onos, then 100 Pres to activate, and acted as a tactical nuclear blast that destroyed everything in a single room.
EDIT: With little chunks of Onos bones scattered around the room.
PS: If you think you are going to xeno, take adren, leap in, bite a couple of times and then xeno. I'm pretty sure it's an easy fix to get it back to being able to be cancelled.
Last I tried, if you hold down the mouse button after activating xeno, you will then bite. If you switch your attack from xeno to something else it cancels. Perhaps it has been changed in the latest patch. I haven't tried it for a while. And I'm not sure if you can still leap while xeno is active.
I know! It's brilliant!
What about giving them xenocide?
Boom.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What about gorge?