I was pretty sure this was an interpolation problem that was causing the ability to shoot around corners and junk... in fact this was the agreed upon conclusion for the past... forever...
Having everything server-side sucks pretty bad though. Planetside was like that. Didn't matter how many times you hit something, you weren't getting a kill unless they were standing still.
<!--quoteo(post=2055646:date=Jan 4 2013, 11:28 AM:name=StriderNS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StriderNS2 @ Jan 4 2013, 11:28 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2055646"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This also has the effect of being killed while behind a wall, because if you run behind a wall, and someone shoots you right before, by the time the server tells you that you were shot, you are behind that wall.
So do tell me where this is beneficial in a competitive environment? Seems like a bad attempt at putting people with bad latency on fair grounds with people whom have good latency. Only thing is the people with good latency suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Despite popular belief, this isn't a big issue and does not materially impair the fairness of competition, in the context of being shot around corners. The real problem is not high ping vs low ping as much as it is low ping vs low ping due to a higher % of the lag coming from fixed 100ms interp (this is related to performance).
As long as you keep moving, the ammount of time a player with high ping sees you is the same, not longer, not shorter. You just happened to die much earlier than your client realized.
TL;DR Stop whining, spend more time trying to break the speed of light.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being shot around walls has nothing to do with hitboxes. So you're saying that a scenario where the server accepts packets from someone with a better connection and updates accordingly is worse than someone with 100+ ping getting the favor? Do explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Yes it does. The player camera is in the center of the player model, yet all hits on the back half of the model are considered legit. Your view may be behind a corner, but you are still open to being damaged.
<!--quoteo(post=2055692:date=Jan 3 2013, 06:12 PM:name=elodea)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (elodea @ Jan 3 2013, 06:12 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2055692"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Yes it does. The player camera is in the center of the player model, yet all hits on the back half of the model are considered legit. Your view may be behind a corner, but you are still open to being damaged.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> This might actually be the case if I hadn't have it happen to me multiple times while playing as a marine and getting lerk spiked around a corner. Or playing as a skulk, knowing clearly that the entirety of my model is out of danger and still dying. Regardless. There's something incredibly wrong with the feel of this game. I have played competitive matches. And when the other team does lag they are from Europe. It almost boggles my mind how the compensation makes up for them and basically ruins the gaming experience for others. Regardless of what prediction and compensation they use. It will never behave as intended and almost always results in an infuriating death when visually you should not have been killed.
<!--quoteo(post=2055694:date=Jan 3 2013, 09:21 PM:name=StriderNS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StriderNS2 @ Jan 3 2013, 09:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2055694"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This might actually be the case if I hadn't have it happen to me multiple times while playing as a marine and getting lerk spiked around a corner. Or playing as a skulk, knowing clearly that the entirety of my model is out of danger and still dying. Regardless. There's something incredibly wrong with the feel of this game. I have played competitive matches. And when the other team does lag they are from Europe. It almost boggles my mind how the compensation makes up for them and basically ruins the gaming experience for others. Regardless of what prediction and compensation they use. It will never behave as intended and almost always results in an infuriating death when visually you should not have been killed.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
On their screen, they hit you. End of discussion. You ran behind a wall at certain angle and speed. You were visible for x seconds on their screen. During those x seconds, they hit you. Whether they have perfect ping or 500ms ping, they have the same x seconds of you being on their screen to hit you, and if they do land those shots then those shots deal damage.
The alternative is a game where perfect aim is penalized according to ping, where you have to intentionally shoot the air in front of a target to hit it. Which would obviously be worse, especially since ping isn't always consistent.
The only major problem with netcode that bothers me is how the client treats a player with poor performance/framerate. Most games smoothly translate these players between locations with a little bit of a rubber-band feel, but in NS2 they teleport between locations. Sometimes they teleport faster than legal movement should allow, making me wonder at times whether these players are intentionally attempting to cheat (although in all cases they've performed terribly, so I doubt it.)
Kouji_SanSr. Hινε UÏкεεÏεг - EUPT DeputyThe NetherlandsJoin Date: 2003-05-13Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
<!--quoteo(post=2055575:date=Jan 3 2013, 10:24 PM:name=lwf)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (lwf @ Jan 3 2013, 10:24 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2055575"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It has not changed. The firerate in NS2 is limited by your FPS.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <div align='center'>Good stuff and as such reported, again... <center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLL3eBJvP3o"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLL3eBJvP3o" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center> <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLL3eBJvP3o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLL3eBJvP3o</a></div>
<!--quoteo(post=2055709:date=Jan 3 2013, 06:58 PM:name=Axehilt)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Axehilt @ Jan 3 2013, 06:58 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2055709"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On their screen, they hit you. End of discussion. You ran behind a wall at certain angle and speed. You were visible for x seconds on their screen. During those x seconds, they hit you. Whether they have perfect ping or 500ms ping, they have the same x seconds of you being on their screen to hit you, and if they do land those shots then those shots deal damage.
The alternative is a game where perfect aim is penalized according to ping, where you have to intentionally shoot the air in front of a target to hit it. Which would obviously be worse, especially since ping isn't always consistent.
The only major problem with netcode that bothers me is how the client treats a player with poor performance/framerate. Most games smoothly translate these players between locations with a little bit of a rubber-band feel, but in NS2 they teleport between locations. Sometimes they teleport faster than legal movement should allow, making me wonder at times whether these players are intentionally attempting to cheat (although in all cases they've performed terribly, so I doubt it.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then we should have file servers cater to those with 200ms, rather then favor those with low pings. Let's boost someone who decides to download a game update from steam who selects a server all the way across the world. Then all those who live in the region and try to download get throttled. Communist netcode is what it is. Because it's all about equality and making the game fair by punishing those with good connections.
TL;DR If you live in Europe. Don't play on NA servers. Problem solved.
<!--quoteo(post=2055711:date=Jan 4 2013, 05:02 AM:name=StriderNS2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (StriderNS2 @ Jan 4 2013, 05:02 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2055711"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->TL;DR If you live in Europe. Don't play on NA servers. Problem solved.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Oh, now we're getting somewhere. You should've just said this from the start instead of spreading misinformation about the netcode and security and whatnot.
You do realize of course, that while you'll only get shot around corners by this single guy with 200 ping, he will get shot around corners by <i>everyone</i>. How's that for fair?
The alternative to backwards reconciliation or client-side hit detection would be straight up server-side hit detection where you have to lead the target depending on your ping. Are you <i>really</i> saying you'd prefer that? I sure hope not.
Comments
Having everything server-side sucks pretty bad though. Planetside was like that. Didn't matter how many times you hit something, you weren't getting a kill unless they were standing still.
So do tell me where this is beneficial in a competitive environment? Seems like a bad attempt at putting people with bad latency on fair grounds with people whom have good latency. Only thing is the people with good latency suffer.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Despite popular belief, this isn't a big issue and does not materially impair the fairness of competition, in the context of being shot around corners. The real problem is not high ping vs low ping as much as it is low ping vs low ping due to a higher % of the lag coming from fixed 100ms interp (this is related to performance).
As long as you keep moving, the ammount of time a player with high ping sees you is the same, not longer, not shorter. You just happened to die much earlier than your client realized.
TL;DR Stop whining, spend more time trying to break the speed of light.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Being shot around walls has nothing to do with hitboxes. So you're saying that a scenario where the server accepts packets from someone with a better connection and updates accordingly is worse than someone with 100+ ping getting the favor? Do explain.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yes it does.
The player camera is in the center of the player model, yet all hits on the back half of the model are considered legit. Your view may be behind a corner, but you are still open to being damaged.
The player camera is in the center of the player model, yet all hits on the back half of the model are considered legit. Your view may be behind a corner, but you are still open to being damaged.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
This might actually be the case if I hadn't have it happen to me multiple times while playing as a marine and getting lerk spiked around a corner. Or playing as a skulk, knowing clearly that the entirety of my model is out of danger and still dying. Regardless. There's something incredibly wrong with the feel of this game. I have played competitive matches. And when the other team does lag they are from Europe. It almost boggles my mind how the compensation makes up for them and basically ruins the gaming experience for others. Regardless of what prediction and compensation they use. It will never behave as intended and almost always results in an infuriating death when visually you should not have been killed.
On their screen, they hit you. End of discussion. You ran behind a wall at certain angle and speed. You were visible for x seconds on their screen. During those x seconds, they hit you. Whether they have perfect ping or 500ms ping, they have the same x seconds of you being on their screen to hit you, and if they do land those shots then those shots deal damage.
The alternative is a game where perfect aim is penalized according to ping, where you have to intentionally shoot the air in front of a target to hit it. Which would obviously be worse, especially since ping isn't always consistent.
The only major problem with netcode that bothers me is how the client treats a player with poor performance/framerate. Most games smoothly translate these players between locations with a little bit of a rubber-band feel, but in NS2 they teleport between locations. Sometimes they teleport faster than legal movement should allow, making me wonder at times whether these players are intentionally attempting to cheat (although in all cases they've performed terribly, so I doubt it.)
<div align='center'>Good stuff and as such reported, again...
<center><object width="450" height="356"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLL3eBJvP3o"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/OLL3eBJvP3o" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" width="450" height="356"></embed></object></center>
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLL3eBJvP3o" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLL3eBJvP3o</a></div>
The alternative is a game where perfect aim is penalized according to ping, where you have to intentionally shoot the air in front of a target to hit it. Which would obviously be worse, especially since ping isn't always consistent.
The only major problem with netcode that bothers me is how the client treats a player with poor performance/framerate. Most games smoothly translate these players between locations with a little bit of a rubber-band feel, but in NS2 they teleport between locations. Sometimes they teleport faster than legal movement should allow, making me wonder at times whether these players are intentionally attempting to cheat (although in all cases they've performed terribly, so I doubt it.)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
So then we should have file servers cater to those with 200ms, rather then favor those with low pings. Let's boost someone who decides to download a game update from steam who selects a server all the way across the world. Then all those who live in the region and try to download get throttled. Communist netcode is what it is. Because it's all about equality and making the game fair by punishing those with good connections.
TL;DR If you live in Europe. Don't play on NA servers. Problem solved.
Oh, now we're getting somewhere. You should've just said this from the start instead of spreading misinformation about the netcode and security and whatnot.
You do realize of course, that while you'll only get shot around corners by this single guy with 200 ping, he will get shot around corners by <i>everyone</i>. How's that for fair?
The alternative to backwards reconciliation or client-side hit detection would be straight up server-side hit detection where you have to lead the target depending on your ping. Are you <i>really</i> saying you'd prefer that? I sure hope not.