<!--quoteo(post=2059236:date=Jan 11 2013, 12:31 PM:name=Roobubba)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Roobubba @ Jan 11 2013, 12:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059236"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Whoa hold up there... not jumping and running indefinitely is unrealistic? Trolling much?
So many aliens just hold down the attack button, 3 well-timed bites (or two plus parasite for armour 0 marines) will do the job perfectly, so make sure they count. I'm forever running up walls and bouncing around as a skulk in combat, make sure you bite at the right time and the marines will go down quicker, and in the process they find it harder to hit you. Skulks running around on the floor without using walls/ceilings/railings/jump are the easiest things in the world to kill for any half-decent marine.
Roo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> qft.
Timing your bites is key, not just holding it down & hope to get lucky.
<!--quoteo(post=2059085:date=Jan 10 2013, 08:49 PM:name=w3st420)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (w3st420 @ Jan 10 2013, 08:49 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059085"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh yes, I was waiting for a reply like this. Well, there is one thing you've forgotten, a marine has nanite armour that assists in his jumping, allowing him to jump indefinitely as long as he gives his nanites about a second of regenerate their jumping ability.
Its a video game, there already is stamina in jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> <img src="http://s12.postimage.org/p7nr8z3m5/nanites.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
/and the inevitable "You simply play bad as an alien. Deal with it. " <b> l2p</b> guy.. Thanks for showing up!
OP, you're basically arguing that marines making themselves easier targets should be nerfed...
As many people have said, there is jump stamina. And, as a Skulk why are focused on their feet? You should be on walls and ceilings making your attacks towards their torso (a much easier target), while making yourself a harder target by forcing the marine to "find" you.
In the end, the game has to be a game. Without gameplay, there is no game. Being able to utilize movement skill to avoid damage is one element of gameplay -- and interestingly matched on the other end by aliens' aiming skill. This creates interesting gameplay.
The alternative would be a flatter, less rewarding experience.
I agree with Davil, it's not the spammers of jump that are nasty, usually the end up disorientating themselves lol, it's the marine who pulls the ninja rather unphysical backwards spinning jump just once, leaving him on low health and you dead, 1 bite short.
<!--quoteo(post=2059086:date=Jan 11 2013, 01:59 AM:name=hus)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (hus @ Jan 11 2013, 01:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059086"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Waiting on your followup post where you've since played longer than 5minutes and you witness what a fade can do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Agreed.
To the topic starter: Your issue is irrelevant, there is no way a marine will survive an excessive amount of time by jumping if you know at least how to handle your mouse as a skulk, looking slightly up might be a good idea and coming from the walls or jumping yourself, so let the marines jump as much as they want because if the skulk is any good he wont get more than two jumps.
<!--quoteo(post=2059074:date=Jan 10 2013, 07:25 PM:name=Quadro2k)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Quadro2k @ Jan 10 2013, 07:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059074"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now I don't want Marines to be easy targets by any means, but I'm frankly fed up with this.
I'm sure we are all aware spamming jump causes implications for a skulk. Having to dodge and weave or planning an ambush is hard enough but once you've achieved it, that doesn't always mean you'll snatch the kill. Of course you can never be guaranteed 100% success but this particular characteristic of the game makes it an excruciating experience for all skulks against happy jumpers.
Any half decent Marine getting caught up in close quarters will instinctively jump to avoid any damage in close quarters, which is absolutely fine, suggesting that their should be no jump is a ridiculous notion. However, most if not all relatively good players will repeatably jump either to simply buy time for their teammates to finish you off or they'll kill you themselves whilst in this ridiculous jumping frenzy.
Skulks have a very low aspect, which is fine of course. But when you have a marine jumping incredibly close to you, it's actually very disorientating which makes you miss your attacks too frequently. Jumping yourself doesn't make it any better, once in a jump your dedicated to it by which point the marine would have already relocated. Your only options are to pursue and hope for the best or run then regenerate and do the whole thing again!
I've seen quite often groups of skulks trying to kill off just a single Marine because hes jumping like he has no stamina issues not mentioning they're taking fire from his teammates.
Now, talking about Stamina. I've played games where stamina plays a roll in what your capable of doing and I'm sure we all have. Some games have tiny amounts of stamina that gives you the impression the soldier your playing must have spent all his life eating burgers. Now that's not what I would want in NS2. All I'm suggesting is to limit the number of jumps, which wont effect movement speed or sprint but would only decrease jump capacity for a number of seconds (whatever works) but what I wouldn't want is to jump over a couple of objects and not be able to make the third.
My suggestion is to limit jump capacity after the third jump for whatever number of seconds that feels right. It's excruciatingly frustrating for skulks. After all marines get jump packs to upset Aliens at later game. :)
I really hope a developer reads this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see it being a problem. If you've got a skulk in melee range you failed as a marine to kill at a distance, and you have very little else other than melee and jumping on things to evade. As it should be. "Bunnyhopping" does not exist anymore.
Plus, I don't personally have issues biting a jumping marine. Maybe I'm just better at tracking targets than others, I can see it being frustrating for someone with slower reflexes.
<!--quoteo(post=2059421:date=Jan 12 2013, 09:16 AM:name=OnosFactory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (OnosFactory @ Jan 12 2013, 09:16 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2059421"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I agree with Davil, it's not the spammers of jump that are nasty, usually the end up disorientating themselves lol, it's the marine who pulls the ninja rather unphysical backwards spinning jump just once, leaving him on low health and you dead, 1 bite short.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Spamming jump now pretty much just kills a marine and the one lucky jump is just that. A smart marine how ever can use ramps, rails etc to allow 2-3 consecutive jumps, up over and around objects which will allow you maintain full speed/distance on jumps with directional changes
This isn't to say the slow down stopped most space bar spamming but that there is still a way to get same results if the marine positions himself in the right part of a map. Its using a mechanic left in for one purpose as the purpose it was originally changed for.
The reason we have the current model is so marines can still get into vents etc otherwise they would have gone back to none at all. There is an alternative suggestion that has a significant draw back if the high jump is used in combat (lost lateral movement).
Dont get me wrong where we are is 100 times better than the majority of the beta days, it does not mean it could not be improved upon. Marines have better directional change than aliens and marines who know how to dodge (not jump over/around) are much more dangerous, so the skill of being able to survive in melee is still there.
Comments
So many aliens just hold down the attack button, 3 well-timed bites (or two plus parasite for armour 0 marines) will do the job perfectly, so make sure they count. I'm forever running up walls and bouncing around as a skulk in combat, make sure you bite at the right time and the marines will go down quicker, and in the process they find it harder to hit you. Skulks running around on the floor without using walls/ceilings/railings/jump are the easiest things in the world to kill for any half-decent marine.
Roo<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
qft.
Timing your bites is key, not just holding it down & hope to get lucky.
Its a video game, there already is stamina in jumping.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<img src="http://s12.postimage.org/p7nr8z3m5/nanites.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
/and the inevitable "You simply play bad as an alien. Deal with it. " <b> l2p</b> guy.. Thanks for showing up!
you'll get used to biting jumping marines
As many people have said, there is jump stamina. And, as a Skulk why are focused on their feet? You should be on walls and ceilings making your attacks towards their torso (a much easier target), while making yourself a harder target by forcing the marine to "find" you.
Keep playing, OP! You'll get it.
The alternative would be a flatter, less rewarding experience.
...and that's about the nicest I can put things.
Agreed.
To the topic starter: Your issue is irrelevant, there is no way a marine will survive an excessive amount of time by jumping if you know at least how to handle your mouse as a skulk, looking slightly up might be a good idea and coming from the walls or jumping yourself, so let the marines jump as much as they want because if the skulk is any good he wont get more than two jumps.
I'm sure we are all aware spamming jump causes implications for a skulk. Having to dodge and weave or planning an ambush is hard enough but once you've achieved it, that doesn't always mean you'll snatch the kill. Of course you can never be guaranteed 100% success but this particular characteristic of the game makes it an excruciating experience for all skulks against happy jumpers.
Any half decent Marine getting caught up in close quarters will instinctively jump to avoid any damage in close quarters, which is absolutely fine, suggesting that their should be no jump is a ridiculous notion. However, most if not all relatively good players will repeatably jump either to simply buy time for their teammates to finish you off or they'll kill you themselves whilst in this ridiculous jumping frenzy.
Skulks have a very low aspect, which is fine of course. But when you have a marine jumping incredibly close to you, it's actually very disorientating which makes you miss your attacks too frequently. Jumping yourself doesn't make it any better, once in a jump your dedicated to it by which point the marine would have already relocated. Your only options are to pursue and hope for the best or run then regenerate and do the whole thing again!
I've seen quite often groups of skulks trying to kill off just a single Marine because hes jumping like he has no stamina issues not mentioning they're taking fire from his teammates.
Now, talking about Stamina. I've played games where stamina plays a roll in what your capable of doing and I'm sure we all have. Some games have tiny amounts of stamina that gives you the impression the soldier your playing must have spent all his life eating burgers. Now that's not what I would want in NS2. All I'm suggesting is to limit the number of jumps, which wont effect movement speed or sprint but would only decrease jump capacity for a number of seconds (whatever works) but what I wouldn't want is to jump over a couple of objects and not be able to make the third.
My suggestion is to limit jump capacity after the third jump for whatever number of seconds that feels right. It's excruciatingly frustrating for skulks. After all marines get jump packs to upset Aliens at later game. :)
I really hope a developer reads this.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't see it being a problem. If you've got a skulk in melee range you failed as a marine to kill at a distance, and you have very little else other than melee and jumping on things to evade. As it should be. "Bunnyhopping" does not exist anymore.
Plus, I don't personally have issues biting a jumping marine. Maybe I'm just better at tracking targets than others, I can see it being frustrating for someone with slower reflexes.
/thread
Spamming jump now pretty much just kills a marine and the one lucky jump is just that.
A smart marine how ever can use ramps, rails etc to allow 2-3 consecutive jumps, up over and around objects which will allow you maintain full speed/distance on jumps with directional changes
This isn't to say the slow down stopped most space bar spamming but that there is still a way to get same results if the marine positions himself in the right part of a map. Its using a mechanic left in for one purpose as the purpose it was originally changed for.
The reason we have the current model is so marines can still get into vents etc otherwise they would have gone back to none at all.
There is an alternative suggestion that has a significant draw back if the high jump is used in combat (lost lateral movement).
Dont get me wrong where we are is 100 times better than the majority of the beta days, it does not mean it could not be improved upon.
Marines have better directional change than aliens and marines who know how to dodge (not jump over/around) are much more dangerous, so the skill of being able to survive in melee is still there.