IeptBarakatThe most difficult name to speak ingame.Join Date: 2009-07-10Member: 68107Members, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow
<!--quoteo(post=2062265:date=Jan 17 2013, 05:09 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Jan 17 2013, 05:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My only complaint is the shortcut from courtyard to locker rooms has been taken out for some inexplicable reason. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Probably because people could just waltz up from Terminal and start shooting the hive. Locker room suffers from enough siege spots as it is.
swalkSay hello to my little friend.Join Date: 2011-01-20Member: 78384Members, Squad Five Blue
edited January 2013
<!--quoteo(post=2061919:date=Jan 17 2013, 10:59 AM:name=baconbits)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (baconbits @ Jan 17 2013, 10:59 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061919"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->a map that was arguably one of the most balanced on NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Good joke.
I haven't played the new version yet, but to me the changes looks like an improvement over the old map.
<!--quoteo(post=2062217:date=Jan 17 2013, 02:34 PM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Jan 17 2013, 02:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Sorry to disappoint you with the changes, but you can never please everyone in this regard. The courtyard RT will not be making a return but Landing Pad on the other hand might get it's RT back. Right now I'm fixing the siege stuff in onos bar.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Before I post I just wanna say its pretty cool to see developers posting on the forums. I really appreciate the attention you guys give to the community because that's something very lacking in a lot of games today. I just wanna say right now the changes to this map in no way affect my respect for your guy's work or my love for NS2 as a whole.
As for the map I could be wrong, it seems a lot of you have had positive experiences. So far for me its been negative but maybe playing today will change that. Although I still believe the previous version of docking was very well balanced. I play both aliens and marines fairly equally and it never seemed to me that one side had a great advantage over the other on that map. It seemed to me that one side would win just as much as the other.
<!--quoteo(post=2061923:date=Jan 17 2013, 12:09 PM:name=YoungTrotsky)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (YoungTrotsky @ Jan 17 2013, 12:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061923"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Please change the colour of you <!--coloro:#0000FF--><span style="color:#0000FF"><!--/coloro-->BLUE<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> text to something that <!--coloro:#48D1CC--><span style="color:#48D1CC"><!--/coloro-->can be read<!--colorc--></span><!--/colorc--> without hurting people's eyes!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Optionally, you could get your tan from a solarium instead of your computer screen contrast. xD
Like the others have said, if anything East wing is more Alien friendly, not the other way around. The few times I've played the new Docking, marines had a hard time with East wing.
Cafeteria seems to be easier for marines to hold, at least easier to hold the RT/Powernode.
I looked at all the changes and nearly all of them are things that aliens can take more advantage of than marines
Point Blank: East is a bigger walk for marines now in both directions making harassing it easier And what should be obvious: Courtyard was a huge gamble for aliens to take unless you're playing 6on6. . . most games just denied it with cysts without capping
Docking now has 2 dead rooms near marines and 4 exaggerated hallways connecting any alien start This is surprisingly a great move for map balance and has made Docking one of the best maps to play on now for both sides
<!--quoteo(post=2061921:date=Jan 17 2013, 08:05 PM:name=Know pain)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Know pain @ Jan 17 2013, 08:05 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2061921"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My suggestion would and has been to remove the passage between maintenance and courtyard. As it stands and as it has stood, it’s far too easy for marines to sprint from the get go and effectively cut off aliens from expanding to any res point.
Aliens need to use speed to advance and attack early in the game but this is effectively stopped with the vast mobility of marines on this map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I second this, the passage from courtyard through to maintenance makes it too easy for marines to push through. Since it was added I have felt the map has swung towards marines (as a decent side could push through into ballcourt and put up a phase (or in area between maintenance and gen) which allows marines to totally out manouver aliens within the first 2 min. I recall that started as a vent....I think it should revert to one, that way marines mid-late game can get access but not before JP's (or bossting).
To OP's post...I disagree, I love the new terminal and east wing lay out. No longer are you instantly defending when you start with this hive, marines have a much tougher time as the layouts more alien friendly. The map does have issues but these changes did not create or add to them, the issues I still see are around cafeteria.
This has only 2 avenues of attack, with one of those really only being open to skulks and lerks if marinse still hold terminal. The vent idea I think did work and created a 3rd avenue in (meaning marines have to watch more than 2 directions)...perhaps it could be put back in once we have weldable vents again.
<!--quoteo(post=2062217:date=Jan 17 2013, 03:34 PM:name=dux)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (dux @ Jan 17 2013, 03:34 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062217"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->...Landing Pad on the other hand might get it's RT back.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> Honestly, I was a bit baffled at it being removed to begin with. My memory might be a bit hazy here, but I think it was removed because it was basically a free RT for the marines... but in the same (or was it the next?) build, a route was added for aliens to get to it.
<!--quoteo(post=2062265:date=Jan 17 2013, 11:09 PM:name=Squishpoke)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Squishpoke @ Jan 17 2013, 11:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062265"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->My only complaint is the shortcut from courtyard to locker rooms has been taken out for some inexplicable reason. :(<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
nope its still there. They put a railing there to stop you using the shortcut, but the railing is too short so you can just jump over it.
edit: i just went and tested it out a bit, i did manage to jump over it 3 times, but i had quite alot of failed attempts, its hard getting the timing perfect it would seem :o i somehow must have allways got it right when i was in actual gameplay (or maybe lag helped) So yeah, not much ofa shortcut anymore, unless you are pro at jumping over that rail (im sure some people would get good at it) or if you had 1 marine to boost.
Yeah, I tried to jump the rail a few times, and of course I got my dumb self killed by a passing Skulk looking for dinner. So I gave up the shortcut after that.
Ruined is a strong word... I would like to point out something I noticed though:
It's quicker for marines to run through courtyard -> stability monitoring than for them assault departures via east wing. So marines are going up there far more than they used to, this makes it really hard to expand from Departures to Generator as alien.
I'm starting to treat starting hive of deparatures like a pipeline spawn on veil... and just insta drop the second hive most of the time.
I don't think this is 'broken' I'm just not sure it was an intended change. I think going through courtyard is just a bit too powerful atm, with maintenance, locker rooms and stability all nearby. It's really easy for marines to get up north, whilst going out via East wing and Cafe are getting to be longer and longer treks.
Very true what Delphic said. Docking has the following problem: <ul><li> If Marines are smart enough to hold Courtyard/Stability, the map is VERY Marine biased. Departures Hive is especially bad in that situation.</li><li> If Marines aren't, the map is Alien biased. The usual two-front-war where half of Marine team is in Bar and cannot get Locker (very hard to siege) and the other half wastes time in East Wing/Departures is usually won by Aliens.</li></ul>
I'm not sure what the point of landing pad is without an RT there. It seems like an overly elaborate space with nothing of importance in it.
It's very close to marine start, but the area is rather alien-friendly, which means that an RT there is actually contestable. Aliens have a decent chance of taking it out; I certainly don't see it as a free RT by any means.
<!--quoteo(post=2062799:date=Jan 18 2013, 12:18 PM:name=Guspaz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guspaz @ Jan 18 2013, 12:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure what the point of landing pad is without an RT there. It seems like an overly elaborate space with nothing of importance in it.
It's very close to marine start, but the area is rather alien-friendly, which means that an RT there is actually contestable. Aliens have a decent chance of taking it out; I certainly don't see it as a free RT by any means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It usually ends up being a staging area for aliens towards the end. It also works as a good distraction for aliens if they put a skulk out there and a third way into the base.
<!--quoteo(post=2062799:date=Jan 18 2013, 03:18 PM:name=Guspaz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Guspaz @ Jan 18 2013, 03:18 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062799"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I'm not sure what the point of landing pad is without an RT there. It seems like an overly elaborate space with nothing of importance in it.
It's very close to marine start, but the area is rather alien-friendly, which means that an RT there is actually contestable. Aliens have a decent chance of taking it out; I certainly don't see it as a free RT by any means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> It was free because the vent didn't exist. The only way to get to it was through Cafe or Terminal, which nearly always had marines in them, given that they were the starting base and the obvious expansion (Cafe used to be a potential starting base as well), as well as typically being used as launching platforms for attacks on the rest of the map (most marines go through Cafe to get to Bar, for example, instead of taking that central corridor). I'm not saying that it was impossible to get to, but it was difficult. Imagine if Stability or Maintenance didn't connect to Courtyard, so you had to go through a hive to get to it; it would basically be a free RT for the aliens (once upon a time, I think this was true for Maintenance and Ball Court, each of which had an RT).
<!--quoteo(post=2062633:date=Jan 18 2013, 04:04 PM:name=Delphic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Delphic @ Jan 18 2013, 04:04 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062633"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ruined is a strong word... I would like to point out something I noticed though:
It's quicker for marines to run through courtyard -> stability monitoring than for them assault departures via east wing. So marines are going up there far more than they used to, this makes it really hard to expand from Departures to Generator as alien.
I'm starting to treat starting hive of deparatures like a pipeline spawn on veil... and just insta drop the second hive most of the time.
I don't think this is 'broken' I'm just not sure it was an intended change. I think going through courtyard is just a bit too powerful atm, with maintenance, locker rooms and stability all nearby. It's really easy for marines to get up north, whilst going out via East wing and Cafe are getting to be longer and longer treks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree with this
terminal start is just too close to courtyard
If perhaps marines started in Cafe when aliens start in departures, it might be more interesting
I refuse to play aliens on docking now. It seems marines have all figured out the winning tactic for this map is to run to maintenance and cut off all chances of alien expansion. It's particularly bad when aliens start in generator. Unless I've failed at NS2 stats filters it's one of the few instances where marines win more.
If the game becomes balanced over all, good luck playing alien on docking.
Are people really so bad at this game that they believed ns_docking favored Aliens or was at any time balanced? Docking was always super easy to win on as Marines.
I wouldn't say that as a map the current or previous version favored aliens. I do think that the degree to which it favors marines increased with the current version.
Comments
And yes, Bar should always be a good siege room. No changes needed.
My only complaint is the shortcut from courtyard to locker rooms has been taken out for some inexplicable reason. :(
Probably because people could just waltz up from Terminal and start shooting the hive. Locker room suffers from enough siege spots as it is.
Good joke.
I haven't played the new version yet, but to me the changes looks like an improvement over the old map.
Before I post I just wanna say its pretty cool to see developers posting on the forums. I really appreciate the attention you guys give to the community because that's something very lacking in a lot of games today. I just wanna say right now the changes to this map in no way affect my respect for your guy's work or my love for NS2 as a whole.
As for the map I could be wrong, it seems a lot of you have had positive experiences. So far for me its been negative but maybe playing today will change that. Although I still believe the previous version of docking was very well balanced. I play both aliens and marines fairly equally and it never seemed to me that one side had a great advantage over the other on that map. It seemed to me that one side would win just as much as the other.
Optionally, you could get your tan from a solarium instead of your computer screen contrast. xD
Cafeteria seems to be easier for marines to hold, at least easier to hold the RT/Powernode.
I looked at all the changes and nearly all of them are things that aliens can take more advantage of than marines
Point Blank: East is a bigger walk for marines now in both directions making harassing it easier
And what should be obvious: Courtyard was a huge gamble for aliens to take unless you're playing 6on6. . . most games just denied it with cysts without capping
Docking now has 2 dead rooms near marines and 4 exaggerated hallways connecting any alien start
This is surprisingly a great move for map balance and has made Docking one of the best maps to play on now for both sides
Aliens need to use speed to advance and attack early in the game but this is effectively stopped with the vast mobility of marines on this map.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I second this, the passage from courtyard through to maintenance makes it too easy for marines to push through.
Since it was added I have felt the map has swung towards marines (as a decent side could push through into ballcourt and put up a phase (or in area between maintenance and gen) which allows marines to totally out manouver aliens within the first 2 min.
I recall that started as a vent....I think it should revert to one, that way marines mid-late game can get access but not before JP's (or bossting).
To OP's post...I disagree, I love the new terminal and east wing lay out.
No longer are you instantly defending when you start with this hive, marines have a much tougher time as the layouts more alien friendly.
The map does have issues but these changes did not create or add to them, the issues I still see are around cafeteria.
This has only 2 avenues of attack, with one of those really only being open to skulks and lerks if marinse still hold terminal.
The vent idea I think did work and created a 3rd avenue in (meaning marines have to watch more than 2 directions)...perhaps it could be put back in once we have weldable vents again.
Honestly, I was a bit baffled at it being removed to begin with. My memory might be a bit hazy here, but I think it was removed because it was basically a free RT for the marines... but in the same (or was it the next?) build, a route was added for aliens to get to it.
nope its still there. They put a railing there to stop you using the shortcut, but the railing is too short so you can just jump over it.
edit: i just went and tested it out a bit, i did manage to jump over it 3 times, but i had quite alot of failed attempts, its hard getting the timing perfect it would seem :o i somehow must have allways got it right when i was in actual gameplay (or maybe lag helped) So yeah, not much ofa shortcut anymore, unless you are pro at jumping over that rail (im sure some people would get good at it) or if you had 1 marine to boost.
It's quicker for marines to run through courtyard -> stability monitoring than for them assault departures via east wing. So marines are going up there far more than they used to, this makes it really hard to expand from Departures to Generator as alien.
I'm starting to treat starting hive of deparatures like a pipeline spawn on veil... and just insta drop the second hive most of the time.
I don't think this is 'broken' I'm just not sure it was an intended change. I think going through courtyard is just a bit too powerful atm, with maintenance, locker rooms and stability all nearby. It's really easy for marines to get up north, whilst going out via East wing and Cafe are getting to be longer and longer treks.
<ul><li> If Marines are smart enough to hold Courtyard/Stability, the map is VERY Marine biased. Departures Hive is especially bad in that situation.</li><li> If Marines aren't, the map is Alien biased. The usual two-front-war where half of Marine team is in Bar and cannot get Locker (very hard to siege) and the other half wastes time in East Wing/Departures is usually won by Aliens.</li></ul>
chill Goa vocals ooooooooo *eyes glaze*
It's very close to marine start, but the area is rather alien-friendly, which means that an RT there is actually contestable. Aliens have a decent chance of taking it out; I certainly don't see it as a free RT by any means.
It's very close to marine start, but the area is rather alien-friendly, which means that an RT there is actually contestable. Aliens have a decent chance of taking it out; I certainly don't see it as a free RT by any means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It usually ends up being a staging area for aliens towards the end. It also works as a good distraction for aliens if they put a skulk out there and a third way into the base.
It's very close to marine start, but the area is rather alien-friendly, which means that an RT there is actually contestable. Aliens have a decent chance of taking it out; I certainly don't see it as a free RT by any means.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
It was free because the vent didn't exist. The only way to get to it was through Cafe or Terminal, which nearly always had marines in them, given that they were the starting base and the obvious expansion (Cafe used to be a potential starting base as well), as well as typically being used as launching platforms for attacks on the rest of the map (most marines go through Cafe to get to Bar, for example, instead of taking that central corridor). I'm not saying that it was impossible to get to, but it was difficult. Imagine if Stability or Maintenance didn't connect to Courtyard, so you had to go through a hive to get to it; it would basically be a free RT for the aliens (once upon a time, I think this was true for Maintenance and Ball Court, each of which had an RT).
It's quicker for marines to run through courtyard -> stability monitoring than for them assault departures via east wing. So marines are going up there far more than they used to, this makes it really hard to expand from Departures to Generator as alien.
I'm starting to treat starting hive of deparatures like a pipeline spawn on veil... and just insta drop the second hive most of the time.
I don't think this is 'broken' I'm just not sure it was an intended change. I think going through courtyard is just a bit too powerful atm, with maintenance, locker rooms and stability all nearby. It's really easy for marines to get up north, whilst going out via East wing and Cafe are getting to be longer and longer treks.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
i agree with this
terminal start is just too close to courtyard
If perhaps marines started in Cafe when aliens start in departures, it might be more interesting
If the game becomes balanced over all, good luck playing alien on docking.