Cpu or Gfx card?
WhiteWeasel
Join Date: 2012-11-25 Member: 173197Members
Join Date: 2012-11-25 Member: 173197Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Which one?</div>Would it be better to upgrade my cpu or get a graphics card for better performance in ns2?
EDIT: Specs (based off the the boxes and windows experience told me)
Windows experience is rated from 1.0 to 7.9 <a href="http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-is-the-Windows-Experience-Index" target="_blank">Link</a> to know what any of this means.
Amd <b>A10</b> 5800k cpu 3.8GHz, WE: 7.3
Ram: G.skill sniper 8gb, WE: 7.3
Mother board: Biostar hi-fi a85w
1 TB of storage
2 processor cores
64 bit operating system
NOTE: Also<b> I don't have a graphics card</b>, my mother board is weird and does it straight from the CPU
Other WE stuff:
Graphics 6.8
Gaming graphics 6.6
Primary hard disk 5.9
EDIT2:
It runs at a constant 22C, ~100 Watt x hour
EDIT3: Since it's the lowest score anyone think I should get a faster hard disk too?
EDIT4:
Picture of r_stats
<a href="http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882971585395570086/7A7590CCCB062322FC19953E9600C26C75757E69/" target="_blank">http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882971...00C26C75757E69/</a>
EDIT5: If your going to recommend something it can't really be more than ~$200.
EDIT: Specs (based off the the boxes and windows experience told me)
Windows experience is rated from 1.0 to 7.9 <a href="http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-vista/What-is-the-Windows-Experience-Index" target="_blank">Link</a> to know what any of this means.
Amd <b>A10</b> 5800k cpu 3.8GHz, WE: 7.3
Ram: G.skill sniper 8gb, WE: 7.3
Mother board: Biostar hi-fi a85w
1 TB of storage
2 processor cores
64 bit operating system
NOTE: Also<b> I don't have a graphics card</b>, my mother board is weird and does it straight from the CPU
Other WE stuff:
Graphics 6.8
Gaming graphics 6.6
Primary hard disk 5.9
EDIT2:
It runs at a constant 22C, ~100 Watt x hour
EDIT3: Since it's the lowest score anyone think I should get a faster hard disk too?
EDIT4:
Picture of r_stats
<a href="http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882971585395570086/7A7590CCCB062322FC19953E9600C26C75757E69/" target="_blank">http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/882971...00C26C75757E69/</a>
EDIT5: If your going to recommend something it can't really be more than ~$200.
Comments
Worse than a GeForce GTX 280, upgrade the video card.
If you have a decent CPU now, then go with graphics or visa versa. For instance an i5 or i7 with a 3Ghz clock or higher is fine. So if you are already in that range then go for the graphics. Just depends on the specs.
<!--quoteo(post=2062309:date=Jan 17 2013, 03:25 PM:name=CommunistWithAGun)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CommunistWithAGun @ Jan 17 2013, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062309"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It really depends on what you currently have. Best advice is to avoid AMD entirely however. (inb4 undereducated fanboys say otherwise)<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What's wrong with AMD? they make great cards that are cheaper than their Nvidia counter parts. They also tend to come with more vram so multimonitor high resolution gaming is possible. Certain games are more optimized for certain brands. Crysis for example runs much better on Nvidia hardware while Metro 2033 is far and away better on AMD GPU's. I think actually a single 7970 OC'd can keep direct pace with my card in that game.
And no, anecdotal stories about issues do not give precedence or credibility to the argument.
What's wrong with AMD? they make great cards that are cheaper than their Nvidia counter parts. They also tend to come with more vram so multimonitor high resolution gaming is possible. Certain games are more optimized for certain brands. Crysis for example runs much better on Nvidia hardware while Metro 2033 is far and away better on AMD GPU's. I think actually a single 7970 OC'd can keep direct pace with my card in that game.
And no, anecdotal stories about issues do not give precedence or credibility to the argument.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
You give anecdotal evidence then say "you can't use anecdotal evidence"
Okay. Moving on from the troll attempt...
Anyway OP, AMD cards are not terrible, but yes, the drivers are awful, my last two cards were a 4950, then I upgraded to a 6950. The 6950 actually was pretty decent, but if you do some google searches for amd slow performance, you'll find a ton (by far and away more cases than nvidia) of threads on games not working correctly on really good hardware. The AMD hardware itself isn't to blame all the time, but the drivers are abysmal.
AMD processors have been a joke now for the last three generations, which you can easily see by visiting tomshardware or hardocp. They have really good and credible guides.
You'll get decent performance with an AMD set up and save a couple hundred bucks. If you go intel/nvidia, you're gonna spend more, but you'll get much better speed and satisfaction. I ditched my 6950 for a gtx 690 and I will never go back to AMD again, and it wasn't because of speed. The drivers alone made it worth it.
Technically AMD owns ATI lewl
Okay. Moving on from the troll attempt...
Anyway OP, AMD cards are not terrible, but yes, the drivers are awful, my last two cards were a 4950, then I upgraded to a 6950. The 6950 actually was pretty decent, but if you do some google searches for amd slow performance, you'll find a ton (by far and away more cases than nvidia) of threads on games not working correctly on really good hardware. The AMD hardware itself isn't to blame all the time, but the drivers are abysmal.
AMD processors have been a joke now for the last three generations, which you can easily see by visiting tomshardware or hardocp. They have really good and credible guides.
You'll get decent performance with an AMD set up and save a couple hundred bucks. If you go intel/nvidia, you're gonna spend more, but you'll get much better speed and satisfaction. I ditched my 6950 for a gtx 690 and I will never go back to AMD again, and it wasn't because of speed. The drivers alone made it worth it.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<a href="http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-7970-x2,3329-7.html" target="_blank">http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon...-x2,3329-7.html</a>
That's like saying the because Vivendi/Universal owns Blizzard/Activision, that they make Blizzard games.
Mainly cpus. However, their graphics cards are good for the price you pay.
To the op, the game is mostly cpu reliant so I'd recommend spending on a nice cpu before looking at graphics options.
<!--quoteo(post=2062318:date=Jan 18 2013, 01:38 AM:name=rmbrown09)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (rmbrown09 @ Jan 18 2013, 01:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062318"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Technically AMD owns ATI lewl<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo(post=2062320:date=Jan 18 2013, 01:40 AM:name=Frothybeverage)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Frothybeverage @ Jan 18 2013, 01:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062320"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->That's like saying the because Vivendi/Universal owns Blizzard/Activision, that they make Blizzard games.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Guys.. really. Everyone thinks to know. AMD bought ATI a long time ago and has slowly phased out the ATI brand altogether. All the GPU's now carry the AMD brand. ATI no longer exists. The only ATI cards one will still find, are legacy.
Now as for what you need to upgrade. It's disappointing that some people come up with unfounded sweeping statements about the one being better than the other. They're different.
First and foremost: upgrade whatever part is weakest, relatively. Use the recommended specs as a reference. If you can muster the cash, upgrade both - NS2 benefits from either. In general, most people have CPU issues.
As for the comparison between AMD and Intel/Nvidia; AMD is generally a bit weaker, but cheaper. Nonetheless, everything can work just fine on an AMD system. Communistwithagun has a very adamant opinion on the drivers etc. - I call bull on that. I've been using ATI and later AMD products for the last 15 years and have <b>never</b> had any problems like he describes. I guess that comes down to personal experience.
If you're rich and want to create the strongest possible PC, go with Intel i5 and the best geforce card, you'll get most performance, but spend way more than a little weaker AMD system.
Generally, I advise people to find someone knowledgable about PC's in their circle of friends and family, so they can help you find the best bang for your buck.
Good luck!
I think you missed the joke there
Pretty sure he meant they haven't been that good since they were ATI.
I currently have an AMD 5800K cpu
Edit: whoa a lot of posts i will need to make another reply.
Actually....
<a href="http://techreport.com/review/24022/does-the-radeon-hd-7950-stumble-in-windows-8" target="_blank">http://techreport.com/review/24022/does-th...le-in-windows-8</a>
These gentlemen did a frame latency benchmark and showed that while avg fps can rival the nvidia counterpart the render times can be more costly on the AMD cards due to guess what... the drivers. However, there is good news as next week the 13.2 beta drivers come out which supposedly have marked improvements on frame latency.
see: <a href="http://techreport.com/review/24218/a-driver-update-to-reduce-radeon-frame-times" target="_blank">http://techreport.com/review/24218/a-drive...eon-frame-times</a>
I happen to like AMD but their drivers do in fact kind of suck. So, while they have damn fine hardware, the software end is holding them back. The good news is that they have finally acknowledged it and seem to be doing something about it.
edit: On topic. OP if you are running onboard video (as it seems you are implying) then getting a standalone card will be the biggest improvement. It looks like the AMD 5800K has an onboard 7660HD.
As for the advice; I'm definitely with you on that one: Buy a videocard. Though the CPU itself is not the best either. An A10-5800k would be so much better... ;)
Edit: whoa a lot of posts i will need to make another reply.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Is upgrading both an option? Problem is that if you need to upgrade the CPU, then you'll likely have to get a GPU also.
Easiest way to check which is bottlenecking your performance is to type r_stats into console in-game. Look for the 'waiting for GPU' line, if it jumps to more than about 5-10ms consistently, then your GPU is the problem, otherwise your CPU needs upgrading.
Oh, derp I forgot the 10 part =(
<!--quoteo(post=2062342:date=Jan 17 2013, 06:26 PM:name=ScardyBob)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ScardyBob @ Jan 17 2013, 06:26 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062342"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Is upgrading both an option? Problem is that if you need to upgrade the CPU, then you'll likely have to get a GPU also.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Also being a young teenager with no job yet I have to wait until my B-day/Xmas for a large sum of money, so realistically I can only get one or the other.
Now if only I could find a benchmark of NS2 on that APU... :X
Note: I'd still check the waiting on GPU metric that ScardyBob mentioned however to be sure.
A10-5800K Benches: <a href="http://techreport.com/review/23662/amd-a10-5800k-and-a8-5600k-trinity-apus-reviewed" target="_blank">http://techreport.com/review/23662/amd-a10...y-apus-reviewed</a>
I was just say'n I had that, but I confused you with a typo.
AMD's APU's, such as the OP's A10, has a graphics chip on the CPU. The A10, I believe, uses a Radeon 7660 graphics chip.
When I last looked for benchmarks, it was very hard to find any benchmarks comparing APU's with similiar CPU/GPU setups.
However, one of the ones I did see, showed that the APU's speed of the graphics rendering from the graphics chip was fairly dependant on the speed of your RAM. The benchmark showed that the APU performed fairly close in comparison to a CPU/GPU setup using RAM that was fairly fast.
So what does all this mean for the OP? Depending on the speed of your RAM, you may or may not see much of a difference if you get a GPU that is roughly equivalent to a radeon 7660, unless you get a GPU that is superior to that of a radeon 7660.
EDIT: On another point though, this game is much more CPU dependant , so even if you get a better graphics card than that of a 7660, you still may not see much of an improvement.
In order to know what is currently bottlenecking your current performance, you should type r_stats in the in-game console(key is in the options) and look for the line that says "x ms waiting for GPU". Paste us the average value of that line here. If the value is greater than 1 ms, you can try to reduce your graphics settings.
In order to know what is currently bottlenecking your current performance, you should type r_stats in the in-game console(key is in the options) and look for the line that says "x ms waiting for GPU". Paste us the average value of that line here. If the value is greater than 1 ms, you can try to reduce your graphics settings.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
3.8 ghz base freqency (i didn't OC it)
in ns2, get into a game and hit the console (~, next to 1), then type
r_stats
and hit enter. Come back out of the console and you'll see a whole load of text on your screen. There is a line that tells you how long the gpu is waiting (in ms) each frame. In fact, just take a screenshot or two and post back here, that would be easiest probably.
Roo
Why not an i7 3770k or something? Curious....
benchmarks show really small fps gains from an i5 to an i7 so that's why people say i5.
Games do not take much if any advantage of hyperthreading.
If youll be transcoding, or doing video stuff, then yeah you want an i7. Buying an i7 for gaming is an oxymoron
a higher model does not equal better.
a list of many cards running many games and programs in various resolutions.
pick a budget, pick a resolution you will probably play on & pick a card.
IF performance between your selected AMD and Nvidia cards is minimal, I would go for nvidia solely because they also run physx (if on hardware)