DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
im getting more enthusiastic the more I hear. This could work. And be balanced fine as each upgrade costs more res the player did not invest in something else.
1) Hold down LMB - Fist of the North Star punches, random chance of making an alien head explode
2) Hold down RMB - Does a grab using nanites (work with me here), range of 10m. If successful:
Hold your back key to do a suplex Hold your forward key to do a piledriver Hold your left key to snap the alien over your knee Hold your right key to throw the alien like a missile Repeatedly tap your LMB to administer a beating
Hold all of your movement keys while pressing the sprint key to do a jump jet spinning piledriver
3) Hold down both LMB and RMB - spinning lariat to knock every alien (except Onos) away from you
In general, I like and support the idea of moddable exos.
BUT a double fist EXO for 25 pres? Heavy welder, heavy flamethrower? Maybe missile packs or a Predator like mini-ARC shoulder gun which targets enemys/buildings automatically... hold your horses! This is still NS2 and not Hawken or Mech Warrior. EXOs should be an end game, res-expensive option for Marines, and they should be a heavy hitter, no support unit. And Marines outside of any mech should be the standard troop.
Railguns fits them well. Hope to see that soon.
OR
everything fine by me. Just give Kharaa a 25 res BABY ONOS which grows by Marines devoured (Onos must belly slide when devouring, obviously) and which gains special abilities by devoured marine equiptment (mines = catapult kick, flamethrower = flaming flatulence, and so on). ;)
I don't see any problems with 25 pres pure melee EXO. It would be a slow and vulnerable building smasher, easily taken down by Gorges and Lerks. Its real use would be to allow full weapon customization but perhaps it could also work as a meat-shield for marines on foot.
I very much like the ideas I'm seeing here. In addition to making the Exo more customizable depending on the needs of the current game, this would also make the Commander-dropped Exo infinitely more useful.
People who get good a exoing with this new exo style can spend pres early game on mines and such things, then the comm drops them a base exo that they proceed to trick out themselves. As is now Alien comm can drop fully functional Onos eggs while Marine comm can only drop "half-functional" exos? I like the idea of being able to buy/drop basic exos and then having the players upgrade them themselves.
I also like the idea of having more options for upgrades than just guns. Speed boosts, extra armor, maybe a super-welder of sorts (Ultimate base-defender exo), etc.
I'd have to say a definite NO on the heavy welder idea. Exos should require support from MACs or marine welders, they shouldn't be able to heal themselves.
As for the exo idea, how about this - the exo has a 40 pres initial cost to keep it relatively rare as it is now and spawns with two fists. The first weapon upgrade can be taken at 10 pres. The second will cost 25 pres. How's that sound?
I'd have to say a definite NO on the heavy welder idea. Exos should require support from MACs or marine welders, they shouldn't be able to heal themselves.
As for the exo idea, how about this - the exo has a 40 pres initial cost to keep it relatively rare as it is now and spawns with two fists. The first weapon upgrade can be taken at 10 pres. The second will cost 25 pres. How's that sound?
I could go for this, as long as dual fist move faster for having less guns.
As far as welders go, i think they wouldn't be too much of a problem considering they can't weld themselves and would deal 1/2 the damage of other Exos, and also the extra survivability for the group would make them no longer a liability (MACs dont weld when being hit by BB -always being used against Exos-, Beacon takes away all other support)
I actually wanted to make my own thread about this, but I guess this is placed better in here:
I agree that Exos should be able to refit their arm with a second minigun, or other weapons that may be added later. I would be a little more conservative about the modding, though. The more you can strap on your Exo, the harder it will become to balance. The one armed Exo can upgrade for 25 res to gain a second minigun, both variants can be bought directly in the prototype lab. Same goes for future upgrades.
Buying the new guns or other stuff can be done with a modified alien evolution menu. The upgrade is bought, the suit shuts down for 2 to 4 seconds, freezing the marine player in place, then the upgrade is done. Having to weld upgrades onto the suit seems too complicated to me to be worthwhile.
In addition to that I would suggest a "self-repair" function in the Exo purchase menu that permits the Exosuit to engage into a repair cycle. For the duration of the repairs, the player has to exit the suit and cannot enter for ~10 seconds. In order to avoid marines jumping out of their suits last second before destruction and shelling the attacking aliens with grenade spam or whatnot, a short animation will play (think exosuit reveal trailer, where the chassis opens and reveals the marine), leaving the player vulnerable for a second while exiting. The marine can take the time he is outside the suit to build or repair structures (a self-repairing Exo cannot be welded), on the other hand aliens can attempt to destroy the suit or kill the marine. This should make Exo players think twice about when to exit their suit.
(you may notice that I roughly borrowed the concept from fear2)
First exo, 2 fists 30 res.
That will lead to more exos. Also remember that usually there's like first or second armor upgrade level when comm makes exo so it won't be OP. Still some lerk or gorge can easily kill exo (gorge will be even op for 2 fist exo).
Each minigun could cost additional 20 res. That will make 2 minigun exo 5 res cheaper what will lead to better balance. Also res needed to research exos would need to be lowered cause there would be one more exo step (2 fist exo research -> one minigun exo research -> 2 minigun exo research) or made like this - exo research -> minigun research. In second case exo research could stay same as it is but minigun research could be cheaper than dual exo research is now.
The idea of flamethrower or welder for exo is not that bad but I think that welder is a bit too much. Flamethrower would be nice, double flamethrower = epic. In this case I guess miniguns would need to have lowered attack against structures to make flamethrowers useful for exos.
I like the idea of modular exos/heavy versions of weapons, minus a welder attachment. As others stated, Exos should require support, not be fully self sufficient.
Has anyone played Hawken?
You could have an upgrade that allows exos to heal themselves with a couple of flying nano bots or something, in exchange for being completely immobile and having a long start-up/cooldown period for this healing.
You could have an upgrade that allows exos to heal themselves with a couple of flying nano bots or something, in exchange for being completely immobile and having a long start-up/cooldown period for this healing.
I was thinking flame-thrower would be a good second weapon choice for a exo if this was implemented. Would allow good structure damage and help against skulks :P
Out of curiosity, why is everyone so against Exos being able to repair each other?
Onoses can be VERY self sufficient with the combination of celerity and regen giving them the mobility to escape and the ability to heal on their own. They obviously preform MUCH better with support, but it is not required for an onos to make an impact, while a lone Exo is skulkfood.
So with the onos' superior mobility and ability to self heal, or at the very least the ability to actually disengage, why is it such a horrible idea to allow Exos to support each other? It would require a sacrifice of firepower for both Exos in order to allow them to weld eachother. Its a much higher res investment, with 2 Exos having the DPS of a single dual.
I am not against Exo repairs, but I don't think Exos should repair one another, or be able to do so in combat. Thus my suggestion that would also solve the problem of Exo players not being able to do normal marine tasks anymore until they die and respawn.
If the Exo gets a welder, a flamethrower, a grenade launcher and what not else, it will start turning into the NS1 heavy armor, just an armor upgrade to the regular marine instead of a seperate unit with an unique role. The current Exo creates a natural synergy between Exo players and supporting units, not only because they have to weld the Exo, but also because they can use weapons like grenade launcher and flame thrower to create breathing room for the Exos, which I like very much as a gameplay mechanic.
That being said, I think the aliens need the Onos as damage sponge while the Marines need the Exo as shredder unit. Looking at the general stats of both units I would claim the Exo is not meant for survivability, it is meant to shred as many aliens as it can in the most efficient way and the shortest time possible. In a way you could consider it a glass cannon. In that way it is a polar opposite to the Onos, one of the reasons I never missed the ability to repair my Exo by myself or weld friendly Exos in battle.
Yeah, I agree that Exos shouldn't act as Heavy Marines. That's why I don't support the idea of Heavy Flamethrower. Exos should have their own, special set of weapons along with their severely limited mobility to make them unique.
Still, Heavy Welder is a different matter. I think that adding it to the Exo load-out would benefit both the overall balance and fun of playing as an Exo.
First, it would give some survivability to unsupported Exo squads (in the event of Marine beacon). Mutual Exo repair in combat shouldn't be a problem: the repairing Exo wouldn't be able to fire because its (already somewhat limited) view would be blocked by the repair target, severely reducing the squad's damage output. Therefor the optimal way to perform combat repairs would still be having Marine support. Not much changes here. However, in the scenario of the Marines being suddenly recalled to defend a base, Exos would no longer be sitting ducks, that can be easily thwarted even by a single Gorge or Lerk. They would have the ability to stand their ground until help arrives, without the fear of their precious HP being slowly chipped away by cheap lifeforms.
Another aspect of the Heavy Welder is giving Exos the option to be able to build. Constructing and maintaining infrastructure is a key aspect of playing on the Marine team. One of the biggest problems with Exos is that they cannot fully secure an area without infantry support. They can't even restore base power, which sometimes can lead to defeat. Having a Welder Exo in a squad sacrifices some firepower for extra strategical flexibility.
The welding problem is why I suggested the ability to exit your Exo. The person that exited their Exo can weld their friendlies and set up buildings, all while their own Exo would self-repair, enabling them to worry about other things. At the same time, exiting your Exo would be a risk. Since the Exo would be inaccessible for ~10 seconds, the Marine player would be vulnerable to attacks, spores and whatnot. On the other hand the Exo player, if left completely alone, could regain his Exo health by taking that risk.
I like the idea of exiting exo. This will give ability to hand over exo to someone else. I would be great for me as I usually buy some weapon + jetpack and my res hits 100 if I won't buy mines. Also exo is something that everyone wants not like shotgun that I leave one at base and no one takes it (idk why...). Exo shouldn't have ability to self repair and shouldn't have a cooldown but I thought that when exo is left alone, marine inside can go out and repair his exo. Then he jumps in and crush eggs again. A cooldown thing coulb be made like in command station - there's an animation when you enter and exit command station and while animation is played you can't do anything but aliens can kill you. That should be sufficient.
Hm, I think you're right! Making empty Exos repairable and allowing Marines to hop in and out of their Exo would solve the repair and build problems without the need of adding any extra content. Sounds good. Having a short animation when entering or leaving the Exo, during which the Exo would be "stunned", would ensure that Marines can't safely do this in the heat of combat.
I wouldn't be opposed to exiting the Exo to allow repair, however it seems unnecessarily complicated. It could also lead to some players hijacking other's Exos. Also, look at the design of the Exo, it doesn't exactly have an easy way to animate a person getting inside (where are the pilots legs anyway?)
While I like the idea of trading vulnerability for self sustainability, I just feel that exiting the Exo overcomplicates things. A single Exo, even with a welder, will still require additonal support, while a pair of Exos would have to cut their DPS in half (or more since they would only have 1 gun) in order to survive, which seems like a very fair trade considering all the ways that exist to kill an Exo.
Comments
Give exo wepons weight so that dual fist and single fist move faster the less wepons they have
This would also make the jumpjets more effective (i.e. jump higher faster)
Also, a heavy flamethorwer would be amazing
1) Hold down LMB - Fist of the North Star punches, random chance of making an alien head explode
2) Hold down RMB - Does a grab using nanites (work with me here), range of 10m. If successful:
Hold your back key to do a suplex
Hold your forward key to do a piledriver
Hold your left key to snap the alien over your knee
Hold your right key to throw the alien like a missile
Repeatedly tap your LMB to administer a beating
Hold all of your movement keys while pressing the sprint key to do a jump jet spinning piledriver
3) Hold down both LMB and RMB - spinning lariat to knock every alien (except Onos) away from you
BUT a double fist EXO for 25 pres? Heavy welder, heavy flamethrower? Maybe missile packs or a Predator like mini-ARC shoulder gun which targets enemys/buildings automatically... hold your horses! This is still NS2 and not Hawken or Mech Warrior. EXOs should be an end game, res-expensive option for Marines, and they should be a heavy hitter, no support unit. And Marines outside of any mech should be the standard troop.
Railguns fits them well. Hope to see that soon.
OR
everything fine by me. Just give Kharaa a 25 res BABY ONOS which grows by Marines devoured (Onos must belly slide when devouring, obviously) and which gains special abilities by devoured marine equiptment (mines = catapult kick, flamethrower = flaming flatulence, and so on). ;)
People who get good a exoing with this new exo style can spend pres early game on mines and such things, then the comm drops them a base exo that they proceed to trick out themselves.
As is now Alien comm can drop fully functional Onos eggs while Marine comm can only drop "half-functional" exos? I like the idea of being able to buy/drop basic exos and then having the players upgrade them themselves.
I also like the idea of having more options for upgrades than just guns. Speed boosts, extra armor, maybe a super-welder of sorts (Ultimate base-defender exo), etc.
<a href="http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/801/treadz.jpg/" target="_blank"><img src="http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4268/treadz.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" /></a>
25 Pres - Dual fist exo; NOT Kung Fu Exo, Fists should deal 100 heavy damage, with bonus to structures
Each attachment costs 25 res
Current Available Attachments: Fist, Minigun, Railgun
Possible Attachments: Heavy welder, Heavy Flamethrower
- These would add aditional support capabilities at the cost of offensive power
Every weapon would have its own weight, making less weapons = faster speed (just like light marines)
Weight could be as follows (Light -> Heavy)
Fist, heavy welder, heavy flamethrower, Minigun, Railgun
No need to add special kung fu moves, tank treds or any other ridiculousness to make exos amazing the way they are.
100 res = QUAD MINIGUNS
j/k
Seriously though, I'd like to see a flamer on the exo's... that'd be a good accent to the game.
<img src="http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/1/8/7/6/5/3/oh-you-93067263235.jpeg" border="0" class="linked-image" />
Scientists crossed ARCs with EXOs. Even aliums would see the madness in this.
As for the exo idea, how about this - the exo has a 40 pres initial cost to keep it relatively rare as it is now and spawns with two fists. The first weapon upgrade can be taken at 10 pres. The second will cost 25 pres. How's that sound?
I could go for this, as long as dual fist move faster for having less guns.
As far as welders go, i think they wouldn't be too much of a problem considering they can't weld themselves and would deal 1/2 the damage of other Exos, and also the extra survivability for the group would make them no longer a liability (MACs dont weld when being hit by BB -always being used against Exos-, Beacon takes away all other support)
I agree that Exos should be able to refit their arm with a second minigun, or other weapons that may be added later. I would be a little more conservative about the modding, though. The more you can strap on your Exo, the harder it will become to balance. The one armed Exo can upgrade for 25 res to gain a second minigun, both variants can be bought directly in the prototype lab. Same goes for future upgrades.
Buying the new guns or other stuff can be done with a modified alien evolution menu. The upgrade is bought, the suit shuts down for 2 to 4 seconds, freezing the marine player in place, then the upgrade is done. Having to weld upgrades onto the suit seems too complicated to me to be worthwhile.
In addition to that I would suggest a "self-repair" function in the Exo purchase menu that permits the Exosuit to engage into a repair cycle. For the duration of the repairs, the player has to exit the suit and cannot enter for ~10 seconds. In order to avoid marines jumping out of their suits last second before destruction and shelling the attacking aliens with grenade spam or whatnot, a short animation will play (think exosuit reveal trailer, where the chassis opens and reveals the marine), leaving the player vulnerable for a second while exiting. The marine can take the time he is outside the suit to build or repair structures (a self-repairing Exo cannot be welded), on the other hand aliens can attempt to destroy the suit or kill the marine. This should make Exo players think twice about when to exit their suit.
(you may notice that I roughly borrowed the concept from fear2)
That will lead to more exos. Also remember that usually there's like first or second armor upgrade level when comm makes exo so it won't be OP. Still some lerk or gorge can easily kill exo (gorge will be even op for 2 fist exo).
Each minigun could cost additional 20 res. That will make 2 minigun exo 5 res cheaper what will lead to better balance. Also res needed to research exos would need to be lowered cause there would be one more exo step (2 fist exo research -> one minigun exo research -> 2 minigun exo research) or made like this - exo research -> minigun research. In second case exo research could stay same as it is but minigun research could be cheaper than dual exo research is now.
The idea of flamethrower or welder for exo is not that bad but I think that welder is a bit too much. Flamethrower would be nice, double flamethrower = epic. In this case I guess miniguns would need to have lowered attack against structures to make flamethrowers useful for exos.
Yes it would
I like the idea of modular exos/heavy versions of weapons, minus a welder attachment. As others stated, Exos should require support, not be fully self sufficient.
You could have an upgrade that allows exos to heal themselves with a couple of flying nano bots or something, in exchange for being completely immobile and having a long start-up/cooldown period for this healing.
I think that it would be too futuristic.
Onoses can be VERY self sufficient with the combination of celerity and regen giving them the mobility to escape and the ability to heal on their own. They obviously preform MUCH better with support, but it is not required for an onos to make an impact, while a lone Exo is skulkfood.
So with the onos' superior mobility and ability to self heal, or at the very least the ability to actually disengage, why is it such a horrible idea to allow Exos to support each other? It would require a sacrifice of firepower for both Exos in order to allow them to weld eachother. Its a much higher res investment, with 2 Exos having the DPS of a single dual.
If the Exo gets a welder, a flamethrower, a grenade launcher and what not else, it will start turning into the NS1 heavy armor, just an armor upgrade to the regular marine instead of a seperate unit with an unique role. The current Exo creates a natural synergy between Exo players and supporting units, not only because they have to weld the Exo, but also because they can use weapons like grenade launcher and flame thrower to create breathing room for the Exos, which I like very much as a gameplay mechanic.
That being said, I think the aliens need the Onos as damage sponge while the Marines need the Exo as shredder unit. Looking at the general stats of both units I would claim the Exo is not meant for survivability, it is meant to shred as many aliens as it can in the most efficient way and the shortest time possible. In a way you could consider it a glass cannon. In that way it is a polar opposite to the Onos, one of the reasons I never missed the ability to repair my Exo by myself or weld friendly Exos in battle.
Still, Heavy Welder is a different matter. I think that adding it to the Exo load-out would benefit both the overall balance and fun of playing as an Exo.
First, it would give some survivability to unsupported Exo squads (in the event of Marine beacon). Mutual Exo repair in combat shouldn't be a problem: the repairing Exo wouldn't be able to fire because its (already somewhat limited) view would be blocked by the repair target, severely reducing the squad's damage output. Therefor the optimal way to perform combat repairs would still be having Marine support. Not much changes here. However, in the scenario of the Marines being suddenly recalled to defend a base, Exos would no longer be sitting ducks, that can be easily thwarted even by a single Gorge or Lerk. They would have the ability to stand their ground until help arrives, without the fear of their precious HP being slowly chipped away by cheap lifeforms.
Another aspect of the Heavy Welder is giving Exos the option to be able to build. Constructing and maintaining infrastructure is a key aspect of playing on the Marine team. One of the biggest problems with Exos is that they cannot fully secure an area without infantry support. They can't even restore base power, which sometimes can lead to defeat. Having a Welder Exo in a squad sacrifices some firepower for extra strategical flexibility.
While I like the idea of trading vulnerability for self sustainability, I just feel that exiting the Exo overcomplicates things. A single Exo, even with a welder, will still require additonal support, while a pair of Exos would have to cut their DPS in half (or more since they would only have 1 gun) in order to survive, which seems like a very fair trade considering all the ways that exist to kill an Exo.