Boot camp plox.
Troubleshooter
Join Date: 2012-11-15 Member: 171559Members
Join Date: 2012-11-15 Member: 171559Members
<div class="IPBDescription">Now... really...</div>First I just want to say I am sorry to all the vets that I annoyed in the first week of release.
Now... that said, the reason for this thread here is the problem with the eternal requirement to be the guy teaching every new player how the game works.
From the Com UI, to how to run with your ax out, to how to not F4 at the first sight of an Onos... the games' learning curve is a god damn nightmare and every greenie that joins the game has to be taught from scratch on every basic feature in the game.
I had a friend join a match who hadn't played NS2 since the second week of release and he forgot how to evolve. No, really... I had to explain one of the basic damn features of the game to someone I know, and who'd actually played before.
So, I know there's a lot of angst in the forums/community about balance. Most of the rants about marine win rates and alien balance are valid, but I submit that pub balance can't be determined due to the fact that most of the players in the game don't know HOW the game works, let alone how to be a useful member of either team.
In the end, I'm being forced to do so much training of fellow players that I'm starting to feel like an uncompensated member of the UWE staff responsible for preventing people from rage quitting the game.
Suggestion : We need a boot camp, single player mode for both aliens and Marines. It should cover the basics of the game, the core concepts, and emphasize sound tactics for first time commanders. Why is this so hard? The lack of a manual is problem enough for a game this complex, but to have to explain to people how to bring up their map so they can find rooms that need attention is just rage inducing.
If we can't get something like this, I'd say institute Steam achievements that unlock for basic ###### like "bring up the map", "follow a move order", "activate your Mic for more than 2 seconds"... anything to get people off the launch pad before having their face ripped off by someone who's played more than 10 hours of the game.
Now... that said, the reason for this thread here is the problem with the eternal requirement to be the guy teaching every new player how the game works.
From the Com UI, to how to run with your ax out, to how to not F4 at the first sight of an Onos... the games' learning curve is a god damn nightmare and every greenie that joins the game has to be taught from scratch on every basic feature in the game.
I had a friend join a match who hadn't played NS2 since the second week of release and he forgot how to evolve. No, really... I had to explain one of the basic damn features of the game to someone I know, and who'd actually played before.
So, I know there's a lot of angst in the forums/community about balance. Most of the rants about marine win rates and alien balance are valid, but I submit that pub balance can't be determined due to the fact that most of the players in the game don't know HOW the game works, let alone how to be a useful member of either team.
In the end, I'm being forced to do so much training of fellow players that I'm starting to feel like an uncompensated member of the UWE staff responsible for preventing people from rage quitting the game.
Suggestion : We need a boot camp, single player mode for both aliens and Marines. It should cover the basics of the game, the core concepts, and emphasize sound tactics for first time commanders. Why is this so hard? The lack of a manual is problem enough for a game this complex, but to have to explain to people how to bring up their map so they can find rooms that need attention is just rage inducing.
If we can't get something like this, I'd say institute Steam achievements that unlock for basic ###### like "bring up the map", "follow a move order", "activate your Mic for more than 2 seconds"... anything to get people off the launch pad before having their face ripped off by someone who's played more than 10 hours of the game.
Comments
Yes, known issue since forever.
<!--quoteo(post=2062731:date=Jan 18 2013, 08:07 PM:name=Troubleshooter)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Troubleshooter @ Jan 18 2013, 08:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2062731"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why is this so hard?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't know.
They could probably make a crummy single player tutorial that teaches you stuff like "this button opens up your map" but honestly if you can't figure that out yourself (and if you don't enjoy figuring that stuff out yourself) you probably won't last long in NS2.
^Give it a try, it is well worth playing through it!
^Give it a try, it is well worth playing through it!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
>File not found
Found it on Bry's FTP: <a href="http://www.brywright.co.uk/downloads/files/index.php?dir=natural-selection/&file=ns_training_1_setup.exe" target="_blank">ns_training download</a>
Step 2: Actually read the tips during loading screen (your there long enough to actually cycle through an entire set)
Step 3: Follow instructions in yellow that say to hit the space bar for the next tip
Step 4: actually pay attention to what the screen is telling you to do.
I honestly don't understand why so many people today expect to be micromanaged to the point to be told every minute mechanic in the game before they encounter it.
The loading screen <u>literally</u> tells a player to press B to evolve! How do they not read that? If people don't read that it is their own impulsive fault.
If something is built right next to them they get blue arrows directing them where to go. Even worse when they walk up to it there is actually an icon that tells them to press E to build. Same for nodes, same for armory.
Almost every question I have read about not knowing what to do is expressly explained in the <i><b>loading tips</b></i>.
Explore mode actually explains every structure in detail just by waving your crosshair over it.
I don't understand this learning curve. Every structure is explained in explore mode. And on top of that its a FPS, wasd, mouse buttons, scroll wheel, etc, etc, etc...
They could probably make a crummy single player tutorial that teaches you stuff like "this button opens up your map" but honestly if you can't figure that out yourself (and if you don't enjoy figuring that stuff out yourself) you probably won't last long in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
NS2 does not have a video tutorial.
That's what we need. For an example, you have a video for every lifeform. That is ghastly. Every other NS2 how-to-play shares the same mistakes.
Long winded introductions, unnecessary length, random babbling, unnecessary info, etc, etc.
NS2 needs a 1-2 minute flash tutorial.
Here's what I suggested like a year ago:
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Game is Kharaa versus Marines <snaps from marine view into alien view> Kharaa can be many different lifeforms <fast flip all lifeforms> Here's the map on which you fight <a commander view of the entire map, (just any map) zooming into the actual map, fast-forward running through the map in marine view> Your goal as a Marine is to kill the Kharaa hive, from which Kharaa spawn <flip from viewing hive to viewing marine command station> As Kharaa, you will try to destroy the marine command station. When the game starts, each team selects a commander. The job of the commander, is to build things for the team in an RTS view. <while saying this, fast forward both a Skulk and a Marine going into hive/cc and into command view, dropping a building. For marines, show a marine building a dropped structure> Structures are built with resources, and resources are gained by controlling certain key points of the map <fast-forward from marine base to the nearest res node, showing marines running to it and one guy building it><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That's about 45 seconds. You can still add a bit about tech points, resource flow, lifeform traits and keybinds and you're still probably under 2 minutes.
Disclaimer: I'm not berating anyone, it's not like I've done anything, cept help a few silly newbies learn the game in-game. I'm just saying, we don't have a proper tutorial.
Explore mode IS a tutorial. It explains every structure in the game. You can also get in the hive or chair and it explains what everything does...you can even build them.
There are certain things that you will need to learn through gameplay, such as strategies and map layouts, but that is not anything specific to NS2. Sure, NS2 is more complex than most games these days, but you are not without help. Be an advocate for your own learning and look for help, ASK for help.
Now, UWE, to address the issue on your end. You have done a wonderful job at creating tutorials, tips, and walkthroughs. But something is wrong when 90% of new players I encounter don't know there are video tutorials or an explore mode. I think some changes need to be made to the main menu to point new players to the training menu first. Maybe a popup or circle around the training option, letting players know it would be a good idea to check it out. Maybe even a popup for the people who click on play first, saying 'We recommend taking a look around the training area before hopping into the battle first, click here to enter explore mode and learn your way around' of course with an option to decline.
Er...and how (or why) <b><i>would </i></b>you run with your hatchet out?
Think carefully. Your answer may decide whether the vets accept your apology. ;)
(More on topic, yes the game absolutely needs to clarify several things which aren't obvious to newbies. Near the front of the line would be "Your commander evolved an upgrade, hit B to evolve" as a very obvious dialog which appears after the commander researches one.
Honestly the Evolve UI could be improved considerably. As a game designer who dabbles in UX design, my sense is that a lot of players are completely lost as to where they're supposed to click at that screen. Certainly not myself or the hundreds of other hardcore NS2 players, but all of the Regular Joes out there who aren't used to picking at a game's UI until they find what they want.)
They could probably make a crummy single player tutorial that teaches you stuff like "this button opens up your map" but honestly if you can't figure that out yourself (and if you don't enjoy figuring that stuff out yourself) you probably won't last long in NS2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I present to you the evidence that it still can be done: Chivalry: Medieval Warfare
No multimillion dollar budget, more complex systems than the majority of MP FPS out there and it's still working out.
Imho people think way too far when thinking "Boot camp".
Sure you could do a really awesome thing, like a scripted/guided tour trough a Marine base with caged Kharaa and some badass Sargent type giving you the ropes, all of that ending with an nice "Onos smashing into the room and all hell breaks lose" scene. But do we really need that much? (Not to mention that UWE could never build something like that, heck tons of audio assets are still from NS1).
But i believe that a little guided tour, even with just text popups and no scripting/animation besides some waypointing could do wonders to ease new players into the game. Maybe if they get the chance to look at a Fade close up (and being told that's a Fade and what kinds of things it likes to do) would at least stop people from calling it "Lurker" and give people more of an idea how to fight these things.
Imho that's one of the major obstacles for NS2 success right now, the damn learning curve... if we could/would finally deal with that in an sensible way we wouldn't need to worry about the playerbase dropping below 2k players after every Steam sale.
I like NS2HD's videos, but sometimes he talks too much.
It's like "Shut up, and play already."
I love how excited he gets in game, when he's playing as a marine and doing decent to well.
There doesnt need to be a boot camp when we have an NS2 wiki that already explains how the game can be played.
If some players can go out of their way to watch competitive matches on Youtube, Read the Wiki, and Watch people stream in FPV, why do we feel the need to cater to the lazy ones? Just tell them to do exactly what you did to learn the game.