What about having disconnected cysts die waaay faster? Right now, if you cut a cyst chain near a hive, it takes ages for the disconnected cysts to die down. You are probably dead 5 times before the cyst at the next RT dies.
If they would die faster, it would have a real impact to strategically disconnect cyst chains.
@Axehilt, I never meant to disagree with your earlier post, maybe you just misunderstood me and I was not clear enough. All I wanted to point out is that pub marines tend not to follow orders. You had the same problem in ns1, but the marines were much more reliant on their commander back then, so he had more means to make them do what he wants. Authority is something you either have (innate authority), gain by rewarding someone or gain by being able to punish someone.
Innate authority is the best and strongest authority because it means being listened towithout having to use force. Everyone is happy. Authority by being able to reward is weaker, since it fosters a mindset of "I only do homework if you buy me new toys". Authority by being able to punish is even weaker, because it generates resentments.
What does this mean for ns: The first would be a regular comm, who is known on the server for being able to command a good game. Players know him and believe in his skill. Since there are so many new players, this does not apply very often. The 2nd form of authority would be dropping weapons/eggs for good players. While this is still possible, the marine commander generally does not have enough ressources to drop a lot of equipment, while the alien commander does. Med and ammo supply also falls in this category but since healing at armories is free, new players often dont realise the worth of it. The 3rd form would be a commander who recycles the base if his marines are bad. I'm sure everyone has seen that before and has had mixed feelings about it.
What I want to point out is that the social factor on the marine side is very important. New marines have to learn and understand that they have to work as a team and follow orders to win games. Ns1 was brilliant in this, if you got on the commanders bad side, you would not get to use all the nice toys your comrades were having unless you would follow them and pick up his weapon if he is dead. This lead to new players to learn teamwork.
Of course, this system is still in ns2 but there is a difference: Now, you paid that weapon yourself with your own (not so) hard earned pres. Yeah, the commander researched the tech but whatever, that's his job anyway. You paid it, it is yours - I doubt anyone ever thanked the commander for researching shotguns or mines after you bought some from the armory. And since everyone gets the same amount of pres, there is no incentive for new players to follow another player with a shotgun.
As for mines: From the perspective of a new player, 15 res for 3 mines or 20 for a shotgun just makes no common sense.
I agree with pretty much all that has been said by the OP and the last few posts.
<!--quoteo(post=2064841:date=Jan 22 2013, 02:25 PM:name=kingkrabbe.#bof)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingkrabbe.#bof @ Jan 22 2013, 02:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064841"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So we have to find something, which slows down early alien expansions, which makes the alien com more depending on its team, but which still makes the com not useless/boring to play (gorges build everything or most buildings).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
There's allready such a thing, it's called marine aggressive gameplay! Just play with your marine as if you were a skulk, don't bother on harvesters, cut a cyst here and there, infict damage to their core by hitting their hive early on, and so forth
It only takes a couple of marines to do that, meanwhile the rest of the players can expand, while not realy necessary.
If you happen to play aggressive and take advantage of the aliens need for cyst chains you can lock them by quickly gaining a foothold right next to their main base, that's why phasegates exit.
On the khammanders side, that will force him to call out for their skulks so that they'll push in a coordinate fashion and not dispersed like they constantly do.
<!--quoteo(post=2064851:date=Jan 22 2013, 09:57 AM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jan 22 2013, 09:57 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about having disconnected cysts die waaay faster? Right now, if you cut a cyst chain near a hive, it takes ages for the disconnected cysts to die down. You are probably dead 5 times before the cyst at the next RT dies.
If they would die faster, it would have a real impact to strategically disconnect cyst chains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I was hoping the previous patch would've done exactly what you described, with cut cysts dying <i>much </i>faster than they do currently. As good as this would be if tuned to the right value, it admittedly doesn't really address the OP's issue, nor the issue of Alien Commander not having anywhere near the fun micro game of the marine one.
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
All right I had some ideas here. It may not be perfect, but at least its something. I expect many people to shoot holes in it, but lets keep thinking shall we.
* Make mines not explode when they get in contact with infestation / cysts. - Yes I know, mines are strong as hell. They should be. Which is why this might work. Right now a alien has no worries in the world except to keep a glance on there hives and rts, and kill some marines. Usually defaulting to the latter, because lets be real.. marines usually dont get in long enough.
Now enable them to mine around a RT, upgrade chamber, a random corner in the middle of nowhere.. suddenly.. infestation is no longer a automatic ticket to safety. When you save that RT you can die a lot easier. Going around a infested corner at max speed? Lets hope there is no mine there. It would make the need more to defend territory, slow down on certain map areas and just give the opportunity for marines to pressure them far then now possible. Would also keep your marine base a bit more safe if a kham infests into it.
* show what aliens are in your base if in range of a obs instead of dots. Perhaps even reintroduce motion tracking. - more info, better ways to counter and push.
* Make MACs weld faster. - they are dedicated units. Easy to bilebomb and destroy, they dont fight back (usually). Increasing weld speed would make exo's (slightly) more viable.. (I know, I also laughed.. its silly), it would allow less marines to build and thus pressure. If you are worried about balance late game, make it a max amount of macs who can weld / build one target.
<!--quoteo(post=2064851:date=Jan 22 2013, 04:57 PM:name=_Necro_)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (_Necro_ @ Jan 22 2013, 04:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064851"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What about having disconnected cysts die waaay faster? Right now, if you cut a cyst chain near a hive, it takes ages for the disconnected cysts to die down. You are probably dead 5 times before the cyst at the next RT dies.
If they would die faster, it would have a real impact to strategically disconnect cyst chains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I would like to see is all the nodes in a disconnected cyst chain begin to lose their infestation. Infestation should be generated when a cyst is active, and should recede when it is inactive, whether its still alive or not.
First off, Ive only skimmed through this thread but i can tell you this, the flow of the game feels off. In ns1 all the aliens would get leap, bile bomb etc right after the hive went up, no researching required. Now with the research times for every single life form it becomes a tedious and often repetitive game that leaves little room for non linear strategies. This makes the Fades timing relatively poor and so late that he doesn't even matter especially when he doesn't come with blink. Also doesn't help that marines need to research all their basic stuff like welders, mines and guns which in my humble opinion should be made ready to purchase at start(just decrease all marine start pres).
Second, the thing that really bothers me about ns2 is the early game is so short and unsatisfying. And for what reason? yes i know this is a rts/fps hybrid but in any good real time strategy game the early game is the most exciting. In ns1 (yes i know people don't want me to refer to the orignal but sorry its an almost perfect game, get over it) the first 5 mintues were INTENSE, Marines would either hold one hive or lock down 2, the 5 minute fade thanks to res for kills added tension having the game pretty much revolve around him and the 2nd hive. Along with a great ranged support class aka the Lerk, which is what he really should be since hes a fast attack class with low hp, and the front line gorge healing and making defense chamber/movement chamber stations, it was beautiful. Just about everything on Aliens feels completely gimped or dumbed down for new players, along with the lack of synergy between lifeforms.
The Marines also same story, requiring tech points for jps/exos just makes the game play predictable and boring. You always know marines will have a phase gate in the same room instead of putting one in a key location that can cover more ground. This has done the total opposite of add variety to the current ns2 maps. The lack of hmg, a high dps weapon also gimps the marines severely coupled with the fact jetpacks are a shadow of there former glory. Jetpack vs Fade in ns1 was a very unique match up that Ive never experience in any game. Marines could even the playing field with them, now they're just used to dodge, not pursue.
Furthermore Power nodes need a rework i see too many games where Aliens just got for the node and its over. In ns1 Aliens would go for Advance armory to delay prototype lab, hmgs, gls or go for the obs and stop them from beaconing, giving the Aliens a window of opportunity to get more lifeforms or control the marines res tower number/map control. Now we have this big end the game button. Do you honestly think people dont enjoy deep strategy games? because you're dead wrong. If people want something with substance and they find it, they will invest time into it. What happened to easy to learn hard to master? thats been thrown out the window completely. If you want a competitive gamers as well as casual ones you gotta keep these in mind. Replay value, things that allow the meta game to change up, interesting concepts that are easy to understand will draw pub and competitive players alike.
Mr.Cleveland i appreciate you trying out new things, but sometimes you bash ns1 for being too this or too that but in reality it was a much more solid game and it really makes me sad you didn't start from ns1 and progress from there but rather digressed. Please try taking away tech point requirements for marines and have the tech up like a traditional rts. Also one more thing, the only thing i didnt like in ns1 was the fact that fully teched marines beat 2 hive aliens. Please re balance it so 3 tech point marines or (if marines are given 10 minutes and everything goes perfect for them, which was the average time it took in ns1 to get full tech) can fight 3 techpoint aliens. Moving the exo to tier 3 to come out even later with a jetpack buff and fade buff would make this game a lot more fun.
TL:DR Stop dumbing this game down, people want something atleast as interesting as ns1 Try remove tech point requirements for marines and get rid of the everything that must be upgraded, like shotguns mines welders it boring Add ranged spores back Give gorge more important buildings Revolve game around 2nd hive and fade because its more interesting than a stupid tier 3 unit that comes out and requires less skill to play Bring back hmg, its sorely missed. Buff fade, buff jetpacks, move exo to teir 3 make it really count. IF you're going to keep tech points, Balance tech 3 aliens with tech 3 marines so its up to the players to really end it.
<!--quoteo(post=2064979:date=Jan 22 2013, 11:19 AM:name=DC_Darkling)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DC_Darkling @ Jan 22 2013, 11:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064979"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->All right I had some ideas here. It may not be perfect, but at least its something. I expect many people to shoot holes in it, but lets keep thinking shall we.
* Make mines not explode when they get in contact with infestation / cysts. - Yes I know, mines are strong as hell. They should be. Which is why this might work. Right now a alien has no worries in the world except to keep a glance on there hives and rts, and kill some marines. Usually defaulting to the latter, because lets be real.. marines usually dont get in long enough.
Now enable them to mine around a RT, upgrade chamber, a random corner in the middle of nowhere.. suddenly.. infestation is no longer a automatic ticket to safety. When you save that RT you can die a lot easier. Going around a infested corner at max speed? Lets hope there is no mine there. It would make the need more to defend territory, slow down on certain map areas and just give the opportunity for marines to pressure them far then now possible. Would also keep your marine base a bit more safe if a kham infests into it.
* show what aliens are in your base if in range of a obs instead of dots. Perhaps even reintroduce motion tracking. - more info, better ways to counter and push.
* Make MACs weld faster. - they are dedicated units. Easy to bilebomb and destroy, they dont fight back (usually). Increasing weld speed would make exo's (slightly) more viable.. (I know, I also laughed.. its silly), it would allow less marines to build and thus pressure. If you are worried about balance late game, make it a max amount of macs who can weld / build one target.
Ok.. go shoot ppl. xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That mine idea would be incredibly frustrating and would require aliens to play with alien vision on 100% of the time which is something I think should be avoided. There's already basically no downside to leaving it on permanently, and it's pretty much required for leaving friendly territory already... but if they can leave mine-surprises in your base on/under the infestation (don't forget about that, the 3d dynamic infestation is most likely capable of hiding a lot of mines unless they've changed it recently) you will literally have to have it on all the time. And that would suck... the official maps are all pretty sexy, but they look considerably less so when turned completely orange.
It may be worth exploring what would happen if only mature infestation could destroy mines though. That would prevent the Khamm from just cysting into your base to clear the mines. I don't have a problem with how it works now though.
<!--quoteo(post=2064892:date=Jan 22 2013, 09:37 AM:name=Luminoth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luminoth @ Jan 22 2013, 09:37 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2064892"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->There's allready such a thing, it's called marine aggressive gameplay! Just play with your marine as if you were a skulk, don't bother on harvesters, cut a cyst here and there, infict damage to their core by hitting their hive early on, and so forth
It only takes a couple of marines to do that, meanwhile the rest of the players can expand, while not realy necessary.
If you happen to play aggressive and take advantage of the aliens need for cyst chains you can lock them by quickly gaining a foothold right next to their main base, that's why phasegates exit.
On the khammanders side, that will force him to call out for their skulks so that they'll push in a coordinate fashion and not dispersed like they constantly do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think that the problem of the alien commander being able to do/build everything himself and being somewhat disconnected by his team should be solved by the enemy team being more aggressive.
The problem is (imo): if teams are balanced in skill and numbers (which should be the prerequirement for any balance thoughts), the aliens can expand much faster, because all the alien players could attack the marines (even spawn rush) while the marines must build everything themself (except they build a robotics factory, some macs, and let them do the work, which takes forever and is expensive). So aliens are expanding no matter what while the marines must defend. So, now (again prerequirement: even skilled teams) marines are playing really agressive, are harrassing the aliens too: the aliens are forced to stop attacking and must defend too. But now, there are X marines attacking, which leaves X marines building/defending. The higher the attacking X, the lower the building X, while the alien com is still able to gain map control while commanding the aliens to defense positions. Again, aliens have an advantage.
In reality (outside the box) on pubs, the problem with aggressive marines early on is always: how skilled are they, and do they want to play aggressive. Most of the marines I commanded tend to building/defending, and even when they are aggressive early on (which are mostly better skilled players I think) their impact is always depending on the skill of the alien skulks/gorges. And even if they are better, they are always outnumbered (except egg lock).
So imo, alien expansion should be more depending on its team/gorges, and giving cyst building to gorges seems like a good way to do that.
I think the key is having alien expansion largely benefited by, while not exclusively dependent on, gorges. The problem is that NS2 has heavily moved in the direction of not strictly requiring any player to do something, which I think is probably a good thing for its larger population. This means that you shouldn't rely on at least one or two people going gorge, while it should be <i>expected</i>.
This is different to the marine approach, where you do get marines who simply don't build and will often run out of base the second the game starts. Of course, this can hamstring a marine commander if every player on the team does this, however, since every player is able to build (unlike the gorge) there is far less investment involved, and far less chance of it happening.
After thinking about it for a bit, I came to the conclusion that the spread/receding of infestation is backwards at the moment. Currently, any cyst in range of another cyst will spread infestation. What this results in is the commander placing a long chain of cysts, and the entire chain spreading its infestation simultaneously. Essentially you have a very long "mega cyst" which spreads its infestation across a very large area, relatively quickly. However, when cutting a cyst chains connection, the opposite occurs. Only the outer disconnected cysts lose health and have their infestation recede, while all the internal disconnected cysts keep their infestation and until they become the outer cysts and die in turn.
Highlighted <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=127446" target="_blank">here</a> is a potential method to reverse this, and also increase the importance of an early game gorge:
<!--quoteo(post=2065323:date=Jan 23 2013, 09:34 AM:name=kingkrabbe.#bof)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kingkrabbe.#bof @ Jan 23 2013, 09:34 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065323"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So imo, alien expansion should be more depending on its team/gorges, and giving cyst building to gorges seems like a good way to do that.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Check out Strofix's topic (link in post just above) those suggestions might give a solution to that problem. Because giving cyst building to gorges doesn't seem like a viable solution to me, because then you could simply erase the khammander and that's no fun XD
<!--quoteo(post=2065460:date=Jan 23 2013, 05:10 PM:name=PoNeH)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PoNeH @ Jan 23 2013, 05:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065460"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->NS1 was closer to perfect than NS2 can ever become. Don't fix what isn't broken. All NS1 needed was a refresh on the graphics department.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't believe that. If it is perfect beside the graphics, more people would still play it. Like CS 1.6 Anyway. There is a mod for people with this opinion. Called NS2 classic. You should check that out.
<!--quoteo(post=2065418:date=Jan 23 2013, 05:54 AM:name=Luminoth)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Luminoth @ Jan 23 2013, 05:54 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=2065418"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Check out Strofix's topic (link in post just above) those suggestions might give a solution to that problem. Because giving cyst building to gorges doesn't seem like a viable solution to me, because then you could simply erase the khammander and that's no fun XD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
We actually had gorges that could build cysts for awhile. Not sure why it was taken out, guess they replaced it with clogs? It looked kind of silly to see a gorge making cysts though.
Comments
Its best that nothing is taken away from the alien com, in fact, he might need more options after this change.
If they would die faster, it would have a real impact to strategically disconnect cyst chains.
Innate authority is the best and strongest authority because it means being listened towithout having to use force. Everyone is happy.
Authority by being able to reward is weaker, since it fosters a mindset of "I only do homework if you buy me new toys".
Authority by being able to punish is even weaker, because it generates resentments.
What does this mean for ns:
The first would be a regular comm, who is known on the server for being able to command a good game. Players know him and believe in his skill. Since there are so many new players, this does not apply very often.
The 2nd form of authority would be dropping weapons/eggs for good players. While this is still possible, the marine commander generally does not have enough ressources to drop a lot of equipment, while the alien commander does. Med and ammo supply also falls in this category but since healing at armories is free, new players often dont realise the worth of it.
The 3rd form would be a commander who recycles the base if his marines are bad. I'm sure everyone has seen that before and has had mixed feelings about it.
What I want to point out is that the social factor on the marine side is very important. New marines have to learn and understand that they have to work as a team and follow orders to win games. Ns1 was brilliant in this, if you got on the commanders bad side, you would not get to use all the nice toys your comrades were having unless you would follow them and pick up his weapon if he is dead. This lead to new players to learn teamwork.
Of course, this system is still in ns2 but there is a difference: Now, you paid that weapon yourself with your own (not so) hard earned pres. Yeah, the commander researched the tech but whatever, that's his job anyway. You paid it, it is yours - I doubt anyone ever thanked the commander for researching shotguns or mines after you bought some from the armory. And since everyone gets the same amount of pres, there is no incentive for new players to follow another player with a shotgun.
As for mines: From the perspective of a new player, 15 res for 3 mines or 20 for a shotgun just makes no common sense.
I agree with pretty much all that has been said by the OP and the last few posts.
There's allready such a thing, it's called marine aggressive gameplay! Just play with your marine as if you were a skulk, don't bother on harvesters, cut a cyst here and there, infict damage to their core by hitting their hive early on, and so forth
It only takes a couple of marines to do that, meanwhile the rest of the players can expand, while not realy necessary.
If you happen to play aggressive and take advantage of the aliens need for cyst chains you can lock them by quickly gaining a foothold right next to their main base, that's why phasegates exit.
On the khammanders side, that will force him to call out for their skulks so that they'll push in a coordinate fashion and not dispersed like they constantly do.
If they would die faster, it would have a real impact to strategically disconnect cyst chains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Yeah I was hoping the previous patch would've done exactly what you described, with cut cysts dying <i>much </i>faster than they do currently. As good as this would be if tuned to the right value, it admittedly doesn't really address the OP's issue, nor the issue of Alien Commander not having anywhere near the fun micro game of the marine one.
* Make mines not explode when they get in contact with infestation / cysts.
- Yes I know, mines are strong as hell. They should be. Which is why this might work. Right now a alien has no worries in the world except to keep a glance on there hives and rts, and kill some marines. Usually defaulting to the latter, because lets be real.. marines usually dont get in long enough.
Now enable them to mine around a RT, upgrade chamber, a random corner in the middle of nowhere.. suddenly.. infestation is no longer a automatic ticket to safety. When you save that RT you can die a lot easier. Going around a infested corner at max speed? Lets hope there is no mine there.
It would make the need more to defend territory, slow down on certain map areas and just give the opportunity for marines to pressure them far then now possible.
Would also keep your marine base a bit more safe if a kham infests into it.
* show what aliens are in your base if in range of a obs instead of dots. Perhaps even reintroduce motion tracking.
- more info, better ways to counter and push.
* Make MACs weld faster.
- they are dedicated units. Easy to bilebomb and destroy, they dont fight back (usually). Increasing weld speed would make exo's (slightly) more viable.. (I know, I also laughed.. its silly), it would allow less marines to build and thus pressure. If you are worried about balance late game, make it a max amount of macs who can weld / build one target.
Ok.. go shoot ppl. xD
If they would die faster, it would have a real impact to strategically disconnect cyst chains.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
What I would like to see is all the nodes in a disconnected cyst chain begin to lose their infestation. Infestation should be generated when a cyst is active, and should recede when it is inactive, whether its still alive or not.
Second, the thing that really bothers me about ns2 is the early game is so short and unsatisfying. And for what reason? yes i know this is a rts/fps hybrid but in any good real time strategy game the early game is the most exciting. In ns1 (yes i know people don't want me to refer to the orignal but sorry its an almost perfect game, get over it) the first 5 mintues were INTENSE, Marines would either hold one hive or lock down 2, the 5 minute fade thanks to res for kills added tension having the game pretty much revolve around him and the 2nd hive. Along with a great ranged support class aka the Lerk, which is what he really should be since hes a fast attack class with low hp, and the front line gorge healing and making defense chamber/movement chamber stations, it was beautiful. Just about everything on Aliens feels completely gimped or dumbed down for new players, along with the lack of synergy between lifeforms.
The Marines also same story, requiring tech points for jps/exos just makes the game play predictable and boring. You always know marines will have a phase gate in the same room instead of putting one in a key location that can cover more ground. This has done the total opposite of add variety to the current ns2 maps. The lack of hmg, a high dps weapon also gimps the marines severely coupled with the fact jetpacks are a shadow of there former glory. Jetpack vs Fade in ns1 was a very unique match up that Ive never experience in any game. Marines could even the playing field with them, now they're just used to dodge, not pursue.
Furthermore Power nodes need a rework i see too many games where Aliens just got for the node and its over. In ns1 Aliens would go for Advance armory to delay prototype lab, hmgs, gls or go for the obs and stop them from beaconing, giving the Aliens a window of opportunity to get more lifeforms or control the marines res tower number/map control. Now we have this big end the game button. Do you honestly think people dont enjoy deep strategy games? because you're dead wrong. If people want something with substance and they find it, they will invest time into it. What happened to easy to learn hard to master? thats been thrown out the window completely. If you want a competitive gamers as well as casual ones you gotta keep these in mind. Replay value, things that allow the meta game to change up, interesting concepts that are easy to understand will draw pub and competitive players alike.
Mr.Cleveland i appreciate you trying out new things, but sometimes you bash ns1 for being too this or too that but in reality it was a much more solid game and it really makes me sad you didn't start from ns1 and progress from there but rather digressed. Please try taking away tech point requirements for marines and have the tech up like a traditional rts. Also one more thing, the only thing i didnt like in ns1 was the fact that fully teched marines beat 2 hive aliens. Please re balance it so 3 tech point marines or (if marines are given 10 minutes and everything goes perfect for them, which was the average time it took in ns1 to get full tech) can fight 3 techpoint aliens. Moving the exo to tier 3 to come out even later with a jetpack buff and fade buff would make this game a lot more fun.
TL:DR
Stop dumbing this game down, people want something atleast as interesting as ns1
Try remove tech point requirements for marines and get rid of the everything that must be upgraded, like shotguns mines welders it boring
Add ranged spores back
Give gorge more important buildings
Revolve game around 2nd hive and fade because its more interesting than a stupid tier 3 unit that comes out and requires less skill to play
Bring back hmg, its sorely missed.
Buff fade, buff jetpacks, move exo to teir 3 make it really count.
IF you're going to keep tech points, Balance tech 3 aliens with tech 3 marines so its up to the players to really end it.
thank you, <3 a long time ns player and fan.
* Make mines not explode when they get in contact with infestation / cysts.
- Yes I know, mines are strong as hell. They should be. Which is why this might work. Right now a alien has no worries in the world except to keep a glance on there hives and rts, and kill some marines. Usually defaulting to the latter, because lets be real.. marines usually dont get in long enough.
Now enable them to mine around a RT, upgrade chamber, a random corner in the middle of nowhere.. suddenly.. infestation is no longer a automatic ticket to safety. When you save that RT you can die a lot easier. Going around a infested corner at max speed? Lets hope there is no mine there.
It would make the need more to defend territory, slow down on certain map areas and just give the opportunity for marines to pressure them far then now possible.
Would also keep your marine base a bit more safe if a kham infests into it.
* show what aliens are in your base if in range of a obs instead of dots. Perhaps even reintroduce motion tracking.
- more info, better ways to counter and push.
* Make MACs weld faster.
- they are dedicated units. Easy to bilebomb and destroy, they dont fight back (usually). Increasing weld speed would make exo's (slightly) more viable.. (I know, I also laughed.. its silly), it would allow less marines to build and thus pressure. If you are worried about balance late game, make it a max amount of macs who can weld / build one target.
Ok.. go shoot ppl. xD<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
That mine idea would be incredibly frustrating and would require aliens to play with alien vision on 100% of the time which is something I think should be avoided. There's already basically no downside to leaving it on permanently, and it's pretty much required for leaving friendly territory already... but if they can leave mine-surprises in your base on/under the infestation (don't forget about that, the 3d dynamic infestation is most likely capable of hiding a lot of mines unless they've changed it recently) you will literally have to have it on all the time. And that would suck... the official maps are all pretty sexy, but they look considerably less so when turned completely orange.
It may be worth exploring what would happen if only mature infestation could destroy mines though. That would prevent the Khamm from just cysting into your base to clear the mines. I don't have a problem with how it works now though.
you have a good point on infestations.. would need something to make it 'drift' on the infestation like is water. Should be visible.
Alien vision will always be a choice how you look at it
It only takes a couple of marines to do that, meanwhile the rest of the players can expand, while not realy necessary.
If you happen to play aggressive and take advantage of the aliens need for cyst chains you can lock them by quickly gaining a foothold right next to their main base, that's why phasegates exit.
On the khammanders side, that will force him to call out for their skulks so that they'll push in a coordinate fashion and not dispersed like they constantly do.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
I don't think that the problem of the alien commander being able to do/build everything himself and being somewhat disconnected by his team should be solved by the enemy team being more aggressive.
The problem is (imo): if teams are balanced in skill and numbers (which should be the prerequirement for any balance thoughts), the aliens can expand much faster, because all the alien players could attack the marines (even spawn rush) while the marines must build everything themself (except they build a robotics factory, some macs, and let them do the work, which takes forever and is expensive). So aliens are expanding no matter what while the marines must defend.
So, now (again prerequirement: even skilled teams) marines are playing really agressive, are harrassing the aliens too: the aliens are forced to stop attacking and must defend too. But now, there are X marines attacking, which leaves X marines building/defending. The higher the attacking X, the lower the building X, while the alien com is still able to gain map control while commanding the aliens to defense positions. Again, aliens have an advantage.
In reality (outside the box) on pubs, the problem with aggressive marines early on is always: how skilled are they, and do they want to play aggressive. Most of the marines I commanded tend to building/defending, and even when they are aggressive early on (which are mostly better skilled players I think) their impact is always depending on the skill of the alien skulks/gorges. And even if they are better, they are always outnumbered (except egg lock).
So imo, alien expansion should be more depending on its team/gorges, and giving cyst building to gorges seems like a good way to do that.
This is different to the marine approach, where you do get marines who simply don't build and will often run out of base the second the game starts. Of course, this can hamstring a marine commander if every player on the team does this, however, since every player is able to build (unlike the gorge) there is far less investment involved, and far less chance of it happening.
After thinking about it for a bit, I came to the conclusion that the spread/receding of infestation is backwards at the moment.
Currently, any cyst in range of another cyst will spread infestation. What this results in is the commander placing a long chain of cysts, and the entire chain spreading its infestation simultaneously. Essentially you have a very long "mega cyst" which spreads its infestation across a very large area, relatively quickly. However, when cutting a cyst chains connection, the opposite occurs. Only the outer disconnected cysts lose health and have their infestation recede, while all the internal disconnected cysts keep their infestation and until they become the outer cysts and die in turn.
Highlighted <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/forums/index.php?showtopic=127446" target="_blank">here</a> is a potential method to reverse this, and also increase the importance of an early game gorge:
Check out Strofix's topic (link in post just above) those suggestions might give a solution to that problem. Because giving cyst building to gorges doesn't seem like a viable solution to me, because then you could simply erase the khammander and that's no fun XD
I don't believe that. If it is perfect beside the graphics, more people would still play it. Like CS 1.6
Anyway. There is a mod for people with this opinion. Called NS2 classic. You should check that out.
We actually had gorges that could build cysts for awhile. Not sure why it was taken out, guess they replaced it with clogs? It looked kind of silly to see a gorge making cysts though.