Problem: ingame noisy textures

MetaMind

Hi there,
I tried to import a custom texture made by me but when I run it ingame it looks like this:
<img src="http://www10.pic-upload.de/26.01.13/d1oged2ymlie.jpg" border="0" class="linked-image" />

I can remove this when I set Ambient Occlusion to off, then it looks normal but how can I get it right with AMbient Occlusion on?
Plz help :)

Howser

paste your material files parameters here and we'll be able to help. Could be any number of things

MetaMind

Ok well I just copied the material-file from anothere standard texture and inserted my texturename in it like this:

shader = "shaders/Level.surface_shader"
albedoMap = "materials/refinery/maintexture.dds"
normalMap = "materials/refinery/maintexture.dds"
surface = "metal"

btw how many and what kind of "surfaces"-shader are there in ns2?

Howser

Well it appears fine for me. You need to go through your texture files sources, check the alpha channels and delete any that you aren't using, and rebuild and replace the files. My guess is that the shader falls-back to using one of the alpha channels as an AO map but default. All the textures I've made use a separate spec map, and they're saved as PSD files with NO layers and NO alpha channels. Here's an example of one of mine that works fine:

shader = "shaders/Model.surface_shader"
albedoMap = "materials/refinery/artdeco1.dds"
normalMap = "materials/refinery/artdeco1_normal.dds"
specularMap = "materials/refinery/artdeco1_spec.dds"
surface = "metal"

Also make sure that wall isn't doubled up, turned into displacements are anything like that. Try it with standard textures and see if you get the same effect.
I haven't really got any other advise.
Currently <a href="http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns2/wiki/index.php/Importing_Custom_Textures" target="_blank">documentation</a> of the material and shader system is sparse to say the least. So its just a case of going through textures (both maps and material files) and figuring stuff out for yourself.

Howser

Oh I just noticed your shader is different to mine, that'll probably be it! use:

shader = "shaders/Model.surface_shader"

MetaMind

Hmm didnt know that they are multiple types of Shaders-classes...
Anyway tried shader = "shaders/Model.surface_shader" but it was the same, but when i deleted the "normalMap = "materials/refinery/maintexture.dds" it was allright then...
Really strange that it doesnt work with normal maps coz I made a normal map (in crazybump-program) for this texture...
I m really thankful to you for all your considerations, its appreciated :)

Howser

Right well it could be that the crazy bump normal map is just noisy bumps. Crazy bump has some limitations and you should spend some time understanding tangent space normal maps and how they work and how the diffuse and specular maps play into the whole system. NS2 has a lovely lighting system, and good normal maps are a must to achieve the UWE standards. heres a few good links:
<a href="http://wiki.polycount.com/NormalMap/" target="_blank">http://wiki.polycount.com/NormalMap/</a> - General information read the whole thing even if you aren't on advanced methods yet it'll give you the best understanding.
<a href="http://www.philipk.net/tutorials/materials/materials.html" target="_blank">http://www.philipk.net/tutorials/materials/materials.html</a> - Great tutorials, this guy did some contract work for NS2, his methods are advanced but are worth learning and using to achieve NS2's standard.
<a href="http://quixel.se/ndo/" target="_blank">http://quixel.se/ndo/</a> - NDO2 is by far the best normal map/texture creation tool requires photoshop cs+ (I use crazy bump too but mostly this) Its well worth the £50
<a href="http://www.xnormal.net/1.aspx" target="_blank">http://www.xnormal.net/1.aspx</a> free, has a nice set of photoshop plugins
<a href="http://www.cgtextures.com/" target="_blank">http://www.cgtextures.com/</a> - probably the biggest and best photo library on the net (though i could be wrong) it has limited downloads per day, so only download what you'll use at a reasonable resolution (medium is usually fine).

A few tips from me, things I learnt the hard way. I'm not expert and I'm sure you already know these but just incase:
*Before starting any texture you should know exactly what it is you intend to make. Draw the forms/how it will tile, find reference photos and decide exactly how it'll be used
*Calibrate your monitor properly! If your colours are off your texture will look different for other people
*use photo textures sparingly, they should just define the basic noise frequency and base of your texture.
*Make your own custom brushes- All grunge, scratches scuffs and wear should be hand drawn and help define the forms.
*Buy a wacom tablet, a cheap one will do just fine for texture work. I use the intuous 3. Had it years and it does everything I need.
*PHOTOSHOP, 3d max, z-brush! there maybe easier, cheaper or free alternatives, but they're the best (don't listen to the hippies) none of this pikey freeware will do!

That pretty much covers everything :P Good luck and add me on steam if you need anymore help

<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/id/howser/" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/id/howser/</a>

MetaMind

wow, thats what I call an informative post :D
Even the first link is a workshop in it self...
really fascinating what you can do to trick the polygon-system archieving higher detail with no performance costs. This really reminds me of the Doom 3 Engine from ID Software... where John Carmack invented a highly sophisticated bumpmapping filter to give low poly models a high poly look...Doom 3 is still looking good for todays standard, anyways I m drifting from the topic ^^

Yeah I dont use these limited freeware progs like blender/gimp either... I m a friend of open software but freeware just cant cut it for me...
Anyways I try to learn what you showed me, Big Thank you for this :) but why shouldnt I use photorealistic textures more often, I m not a friend of goofy comic looking games like borderlands.... my heart really jumped up when I saw the realistic look of NS2...
Btw I also used photorealistic textures for my Alien Texture Overhaul (especially the Skulk) and it looks great for me...
check it out btw:
<a href="http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=118315718&searchtext=" target="_blank">http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/file...amp;searchtext=</a>

Howser

Yeah the bump map technology behind doom 3 and NS2 is (as far as artists are concerned) the same. I didn't say don't use photo textures, I said use them sparingly! What i Mean was using them to define the base of what the texture is- (i.e. metal) The forms of the texture should be defined by your hand, Not by the photo! All details should be modeled, or painted. Exactly how Philip uses them is the best way:
<a href="http://www.philipk.net/tutorials/materials/materials.html" target="_blank">http://www.philipk.net/tutorials/materials/materials.html</a>
Once you master the tools and methods they will never look like borderlands unless you intend to make them that way.
The skin set is nice! Though you can tell some elements have been stuck on. use masks and layer effects too blend the separate elements

MetaMind

considering the texture pack: well I tried my best with photoshops repair brush to make seemless textures though it worked good but not perfect.... what do you mean by masks?
Also what I m asking me if I use normal-,specular,- surface-shader-maps on all textures wouldnt that make the performance go down?

TychoCelchuuu

I disagree with Howser that free programs are bad - if you know what you're doing, you can make great art in pretty much any program.

Masks are a very powerful tool. <a href="http://designshack.net/articles/graphics/a-complete-beginners-guide-to-masking-in-photoshop/" target="_blank">This</a> is an introduction to masks in Photoshop. The repair brush isn't terrible but you always need to make sure it looks good, and if it doesn't, keep working. Every surface needs to have these various maps (normal map, specular map, etc.) because ever surface is lit by the game's lighting engine and these maps tell the game how to light the surfaces.

Howser

I never said you couldn't make good art in them or that they were bad! a screw driver is a screw driver, but if i can have a lion powered hand drill or a free Philips pikey hand twister... sure they do the same job in the end but its quicker and easier with the professional tools. I've only used a hand full of programs but I'm going to go with the industry consensus here professional tools are just more developed, powerful and you'll avoid all sorts of compatibility issues. talking to anyone starting out <b>I would personally</b> recommend people just invest in some decent software. If you're serious about making it in the industry there's no other sound advice as you'll just waste time learning interfaces you'll never return to.
That said if its just for ######s and giggles blender, sculptris and gimp are fine pieces of software.
I haven't checked on Gmax for a few years so I couldn't say much about its current state but its essentially a stripped down 3d max, People should look into this if they want to get a taste of modeling.