Lag Switching
Bandita
Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
Join Date: 2013-01-18 Member: 180393Members
For anyone who doesn't know what lag switching is: artificial lag on push of a button.
Every match there is one or 2 or sometimes even 4-5 of them. They have normal ping, but in battles - even 1vs1 - their ping ping skyrockets. Typically the minimum is 300ish and some won't stop until the maximum - at least maximum displayed - of 999.
Practical experimenting showed the following:
- even one lagging player will cause lag for any other in the vicinity. the more players there are, the worse it'll get even tho other have all pings below 60 ms.
- this gives an unfair advantage to the high ping player. basically the lagging player has an extra 1-1.5 second of reaction time
- this will affect you even if you are directly hosting and playing. yes.. you'll be rubberbanding
Question:
#1 is there a way to setup dedicated servers to deny joining players above a certain ping and also kick them if the go above another value?
#2 is there is no such option, wouldn't it be possible to synch players to server positions?
Even a simple torrent seeding will work as a cheating..
I'd favorite any servers with protection against lag switching in a heartbeat :-)
Every match there is one or 2 or sometimes even 4-5 of them. They have normal ping, but in battles - even 1vs1 - their ping ping skyrockets. Typically the minimum is 300ish and some won't stop until the maximum - at least maximum displayed - of 999.
Practical experimenting showed the following:
- even one lagging player will cause lag for any other in the vicinity. the more players there are, the worse it'll get even tho other have all pings below 60 ms.
- this gives an unfair advantage to the high ping player. basically the lagging player has an extra 1-1.5 second of reaction time
- this will affect you even if you are directly hosting and playing. yes.. you'll be rubberbanding
Question:
#1 is there a way to setup dedicated servers to deny joining players above a certain ping and also kick them if the go above another value?
#2 is there is no such option, wouldn't it be possible to synch players to server positions?
Even a simple torrent seeding will work as a cheating..
I'd favorite any servers with protection against lag switching in a heartbeat :-)
Comments
Number one is pretty easy, there are alot of poeple with scripting skills out there.
Number 2 is even easier: Server side hit detection means *you have to interact with the game state defined in the servers frame of reference* ... this is bad, as you cannot communicate at much above .2c , i.e: You have to aim ahead or behind the target.
In NS2, you aim at the target, which will sometimes do funky things as the server gently reminds everyone it needs to occasionally catch up with how everything is progressing.
I'm happy that there are ways for adding the limitations. However if I understand it correctly it's not something built in. It would have to be scripted with the use of 3rd party tools. Or is there a full command/ syntax library up enabling this being done within the frames of the game itself?
As for your suggestion at aiming ahead end such.. it's not working like that. It would need the ping appearing above the players in bright numbers. Otherwise it's a guess game.
Today prior my post I've tested the phenomena and have even told players about it. They didn't mind until I've soloed with a skulk (carpace only) an exo (single gun) and 2 supporting marines - equipped with shotgun and flamethrower and jetpacks! - and got only killed trough 2 other marines spamming grenades at my spot..
That really made them curse.
Also.. im nowhere _that_ good.
Regardless.. thank you for your answer. I'll try looking into this in more detail - especially as I'd lease a server for NS2 like that :-)
Just play on well admin'ed servers and there won't ever be an issue.
Instant kick for people who spike above 300. May be unfair to people with bad ping, but if you get 300 ping on a nearby server, you need to upgrade your internet.
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->- this will affect you even if <b>you are directly hosting</b> and playing. yes.. you'll be rubberbanding<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
<!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->#2 is there is no such option, wouldn't it be possible to <b>synch players to server positions?</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Uh, what?
NS2 is run off of dedicated servers. This isn't Xbox Live.
oh crap, call the police!
There are also other perfectly good explanations for this seemingly 'widespread' behaviour. It may have been a huge fps drop on their client due to bad game performance, or they may have a shaped internet speed which cannot handle the traffic spike incombat but is perfectly fine otherwise.
NS2 is run off of dedicated servers. This isn't Xbox Live.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
And it still works something like that. I'm used to roam servers with 3 other budies and when even 1 single lagger joins and goes into bang-bang mode we all start having lag issues. Yes.. on dedicated servers.
Another nice one: yesterday my last match I've been playing as part of the marine team. Server statistics suggested perfect performance and a ping of 43. It's been the last spot. 5 Marines had constant 140+ pings - going up to 400 in battles hehe. I didn't really care if my team cheats or something, but I've noticed that launched grenades started flying after about 0.5 seconds and somehow they've appeared flying very slow. Traveling with about twice the speed of a very gently thrown paper plane. Now.. I don't know how this showed from other player's perspective, but I've got to tell it's been looking ridiculous. Especially the one where I've hit myself in the back accidentally with the help of my trusty jetpack..
Btw my ping has never gone above 80 ms.
Also as a CCNA certified person (not the highest I know, but better understanding than average person), I've never heard of another players latency affecting other players in way of rubberbanding unless the lagswitch works in ways of DoS atks. Would be interesting to see how these things work, gonna research that a little, I think.
Also as a CCNA certified person (not the highest I know, but better understanding than average person), I've never heard of another players ping affecting other players in way of rubberbanding unless the lagswitch works in ways of DoS atks. Would be interesting to see how these things work, gonna research that a little, I think.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Very well. I'll make recordings of this and upload it to you tube next week. But I think you will dismiss it as it seems to be a matter of belief.
Tell me: how can you prove lag switching in a way you would actually accept it? Constant monitoring of players via spectate mode and keeping tab pressed? Irreal statistics like 33 kills 2 deaths and 600+ ping and players running around while rubberbanding? You would even then claim it's a very skilled player and it must be my connection showing the rubberbanding.
Or shall I again go and cheat and record it? Shall I tell others to do the same and see what statistical results it would produce?
You claim to be an expert, so tell me how to prove this with only the symptomes available.
Thanks!
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIFaLBccQA" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUIFaLBccQA</a>
I mean, I don't mean to assert anything, but based on my basic understanding of networking, what you describe would only be possible in peer-to-peer networking... not dedicated servers.
lol, anyone with a half-decent aim and enough sense not to run off and commit suicide will get scores like this in pub matches quite easily
and anyone with half a brain and a bit of reading comprehension would of seen the part where he says "WITH 600 PING"
I have yet so see someone that has this going on and perfom well because of it.
Sure they are hard to hit properly, but they also seem to have a hard time hitting you - so as long as you are not moving very predictable, you can dodge them forever.
That video you showed was some guy who probably had high ping. As you can see it didn't affect anyone around him, and it certainly did not help him.
If someone is warping around by you, and you start getting lag, the most likely thing happening is that the server tickrate is dipping very low. When the tickrate gets in the low teens you can see some pretty bad warping going on.
4:1, 36:2, 40:0 these aren't impossible K/D ratios and the way interp is handled right now it does give a huge benefit to those with high pings. Even 100ms difference can make it very hard to dodge a marine that can shoot decently. Not really a bit secret to be honest.
There's actually a command that simulates lag, if you guys want to test your theory rather than continue speculating I recommend you look that up on the NS2 wiki page under commands.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
Those are very possible K/D ratios whether on Aliens or Marines in pub play.
Also, it is not possible for someone else's lag to "spread" to the other players, unless it is actually the server itself that is lagging.
I tested the command you are talking about and it doesn't actually do anything. Maybe cheats has to be on for it to work, but it certainly does not work on a dedicated server.
F.e. try fpsmax 5 and see your Ping going up to 999