Cyst dropping - 2D projection
rook2pawn
Join Date: 2008-07-03 Member: 64552Members
Join Date: 2008-07-03 Member: 64552Members
If you go through each map with an algorithm that creates a 2d projection, you should be able to drop cysts so that you don't have to use line of sight, and instead use 2-d area of effect that promotes growth across all vertical planes.
Line of sight on cysts is the reason that we don't have awesome maps with intricate vertical structures like ns_bast, ns_hera, and epic maps like ns_nothing with redroom.
Line of sight on cysts is the reason that we don't have awesome maps with intricate vertical structures like ns_bast, ns_hera, and epic maps like ns_nothing with redroom.
Comments
Yeah, that vent was a common siege spot, so gorges would often OC them up.
I was thinking about this just yesterday - how cysts are limiting not only interesting level design, but also because limiting commander creativity.
You can't for example, build crags on that really high platform in warehouse (ns2_tram) that is only accessible by ladders, or place buildings on top of the crate. (if only gorgy was able to move buildings around :P)
Can't have an elevator shaft because you can't cyst up the walls (i guess you could do a diagonal elevator).
edit: powersilo - now that was an awesome hive location
How about you just attach a modest scroll-zoom (vertical translation actually) to the commander's view with a close clipping plane? By this I mean don't draw levels that are too close to the camera (or grey-transparency them out for a more intuitive view). This way you can scroll up and down to chose the level you want to drop the cyst at. People are already asking for a commander zoom anyways.
Fair enough, but we still have the problem of not being able to disambiguate what level you want the cysts on. IDK, maybe you can cycle levels with a button. Right now people fight the camera to get a cyst under catwalks my moving the camera to extreme angles to 'slip it in'.
And applying creep in a large vertical column throughout the entire map doesn't seem right. Heaven forbid you should have rooms on top of each other. Think a marine owned room above an alien one. The marines wouldn't be able to get the creep out of their base. Basically I'm saying the OP's idea will not deliver us from boring map layouts.
Specifying what level you want the cysts on is exactly the problem with dropping cysts and also simulataneously hindering map design.
The cysts should be able to be dropped as if they were 2D projections onto the 3d map, and the creep algorithm should infer how to spread vertically, but as far as "Connected" goes it should simply mean a cyst is connected to another cyst if they are connecting on a hidden 2D plane that is a just the orthogonal projection from the 3D floors.
I.e. compose a graph of cysts on a 2D plane, and they are connected in the 3D world if they are connected on the 2D plane.
Alien Commander is definitely fighting the interface right now to get the cysts to connect.. The line of sight / 3D placement of the cysts just don't make sense for a 2D commander.
What we need is the ability to pan and zoom the view as commander. With that in place, cysts could be allowed to be placed directly on walls in the same way as floors at any time, which means cysts could climb to access different floors naturally.
Which is why I think the answer is full camera control. Besides, putting a cyst on a platform seperated by a ladder means those cysts won't actually be physically connected, which isn't the functionality we want. Instead if you had camera control you could put a cyst on the wall behind the platform and then use that one to get onto the platform itself.
Yes and ladders will never be the only way to an area, not in ns2. Gorges, MACs, Oni, and drifters need to get around too and can't use ladders. It's just a luxury for those who can use it, like vents.
Personally I don't think full camera (zoomable) control will be as bad as some think it is and would completely solve the problem of 'flat', boring maps.
I think full camera control is an answer, but creates a brand new, much worse problem, that is the interface and fluidity of an overall view at virtually all times and manning many different segments of the map.
NS1 solved this rather perfectly in that you could place phase gates at different levels depending on how you shifted your view, because
1) you got immediate feedback by seeing the faux-blue structure of "where it WOULD go" if you release the button
2) you could immediately see the correct locations by slightly moving forward or back (slight pan)
3) this was a tried-and-true solution that NS2 already fully implements, just needs some helping and fixing
What i think is that you want to make sure any solution
1) is fairly achievable within a short time frame
2) reuses existing, comfortable concepts that are already coded in -
3) anything completely untried and untested really means a much more lengthy process, subject to community dislike / outright disregard
I am saying that NS1 solved this vertical issue by constnatly projecting the placement of the proposed commander drop to the first intersecting horizontal plane, and thus with some nudging and
fine tuning, you can place a phase gate on a pipe, you could place it on a subsection of a floor, you could place it anywhere you could conceviably project a line downards and have it intersect.
All the mapmakers would have to know
1) if you want something potentially droppable, make sure that there is some orthogonal projection that would intersect all possible floors where you would want the item to be potentially dropped.