getting better in NS2 is hard to pinpoint. First step definitely is the aiming and movement which gets better and better as marine so you hit more and get hit less. Also as skulk your movement increses so you know how to run up and jump off walls in battles to get hit less.
I think besides raw combat skill the overall skill is determined by 3 main factors:
1) know where you are needed
2) communicate with the team where help is required
3) know how to help your team where youre needed
with 3) I mean that experianced players know how to take on certain situations. You have to know when to push and when to retreat, know the best way to push a hive/room and so on. Also with time especially as marine you get a feeling for which targets the higher lifeforms will most likely attack. So in the midst of the combat you can pick your targets and evade being focussed.
When you stop using the 's' key as marines
When you stop spamming mouse1 (both sides!)
When you figured out the importance of res nodes (as opposed to K/D ratios)
When you stop chewing down every powernode you find
When you can start making good judgement calls on where and when to attack/defend
I don't know when this happened, but now I look at 90% of players and asking myself "WTF ARE THESE GUYS DOING? OMG WHY ARE THEY S STUPID?" and I continue raging on any not perfect move of my teammates.
I have the same problem and can see this at many other players. As soon as you think from yourself, that you are better than the default pubber, your teamwork gets bad. You stop running with the crowd, because you know better where to attack. You are completely forgetting that your idea isn't probably the best or only valid in any case. I try to remember myself constantly to focus on teamplay again and instead of doing RT-hunts alone, I talk to the people where we should attack.
This works best when you play with friends.
On topic: I think you get good at the same time you know all the maps without looking at the mini-map to see where you are. Others than that, my performance is different from day to day. Sometimes I lead the boards by far, sometimes I'm one of the last. I think one part of this phenomenon is, that I love to play Lerk. While I can mostly kill 1-2 separated marines, in greater groups I only poison them and spore the room. That helps my team, but doesn't get me much points, because scarce I happen to get the kill.
I'm not there yet. I don't think I have enough time to commit to competitive play, though there are some high level communities out there - if only I could remember to favourite them (damn you, server browser!).
On most official servers I tend to top the scoreboard, and I'm not happy if I'm on less than 2:1 K:D, but that's not the question. I have 162h in so far. Still a lot to learn, and I need to spend less time commanding to get my aim back up to scratch as marines!
Getting better is a slow gradual process, basically the more you play the better you get. There's no specific border to cross. Defining good or bad also depends on who or what you're comparing yourself to. I'll most likely never be as good as some of the top pro players. But I can be the real pub hero in a good day. If you know the map layouts, understand the game mechanics, and play the objective, you're already above average I'd say.
when I analyse myself as a marine I look at what I struggle with against aliens, so that the next time I am aliens I put myself in the other players view and do what I wouldn't want the alien to do and vice versa, with a shotgun and a jetpack I will have an easier time to kill fades/lerks, but have a harder time killing skulks, does not really make sense but what ever, so the next time you play against me and I have a jetpack and a shotty, just overwhelm me with 2-3 skulks instead of 1 fade and 1 lerk cause I will just blast both of them
For me personally...
I'm at around 600 hours and I've played countless hours of NS1 from v1.0.
Getting better at the game can be divided into 2 major parts, imo.
[KDR] and [Tech Tree/Timing Knowledge]
KDR is something that just comes with playing the game, getting a feel for the glancing bites/swipes and familiarizing yourself with the weapons. Its not a big thing to worry about cause you're practicing that everytime you play the game.
TechTree/Timing Knowledge is the more important thing to consider. The best way to understand it is to simply command. Here are some questions I ask myself whenever I command: How large is the map?
If the map is exceedingly small, like Summit, then investing in high priority phase gates or celerity might not be as beneficial as expanding creep and capturing resource nozzles.
What kind of build order should I follow based on the size of the map?
If the map exceedingly large like Mineshaft, it may be more beneficial to invest in quick phase gates or celerity. Especially on NS_Veil, it is important to get a phase gate or shift+eggs into Nanogrid, relatively quickly.
Where did I spawn?
Where did the enemy spawn?
Expand, usually in the opposite direction of the enemy spawn, unless you want to take a risk and place a forward armory.
What kind of build order should I follow based on the location of the enemy spawn in respect to the location of my spawn?
If marines and aliens spawned next to each other, marines should expect constant rushes and and aliens should potentially expect the same.
How many and in which direction should my marines be scouting towards at the beginning of the match?
Hypothetical Situation: Game Starts. 8 marines, 1 commander. Send 4 marines east and 3 marines west and have 1 marine stay in base to build.
Hypothetical Situation: Game Starts. 8 marines, 1 commander. Send 3 marines east and 3 marines west and have 2 marine stay in base to build and defend against a potential rush.
What strategic locations should I capture?
Usually, but not always, the best strategic location to capture is one that has the less points of entry and the more ability to travel to other parts of the map quickly. For example: Nanogrid, Crossroads.
How much of my initial resources should I invest into extractors/harvesters versus tech and upgrades?
Should I invest into 3 extractors an armory and an observatory? OR Risk 5 extractors? OR Get mines first then an observatory? How will that affect my personal and team resource flow?
Should I get celerity/carapace/camoflauge early and delay higher lifeforms? OR should I invest in Harvesters more?
How competent are my teammates?
Are they noobs running around like chickens with their heads cut off or are they good at following commands? Who is willing to learn and who already knows what they are doing?
Which players have a high KDR?
Players with high KDR should obviously be given more offensive/scouting orders rather than defensive/building orders.
Which players are good team players?
Players without a high KDR should be given more defensive/building orders rather than offensive/scouting orders.
Where should should I sent specific players based on their individual traits?
Hypothetical Situation: Game Starts. 8 marines, 1 commander.
Send a group of marines containing 1 or 2 high KDR marines with 1 or 2 team-oriented marines in each direction. Keep 1-2 team-oriented marines in Base to build.
What upgrade should I get based on the competency of my team?
Is my whole team bad at shooting? Try getting Armor 1 before Weapons 1 to increase their survivability.
Is my whole team full of badass sharpshooters? Try getting Weapons 1 before Armor 1 to increase offense.
Is my team not responding quickly enough when an extractor/harvester is dying? Try getting mines to buy some extra time.
Is your team bad at skulking? Gorging? Fading? Onosing? Who should go fade or gorge or onos?
How many harvester/extractors does the enemy have and where?
Its always good to have a general idea of when to expect certain enemy tech. The best way to get that general idea is to know how many harvester/extractors the enemy has and for how long they have had them.
When was the last time an enemy harvester or extractor was killed?
Its always important to harrass their resources. duh
Approximately how much time until the first lerk/fade/onos appears on the battle field? (Depending on the alien's harvester count)
Always stay one step ahead of the enemy team's tech. Have the aliens had 4 harvesters constantly throughout the game? Then try to get armor 1 and/or armor 2 and/or shotguns before the 7-8 minute mark.
What kind of reaction will a certain attack result in?
If I harrass harvesters/extractors constantly, marines will likely react by researching welders and/or mines, or placing forward-whips/crags/shifts/shades.
If marines have exosuits, I should try to force a beacon, leaving the exosuits on the battlefield without welders to heal them.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
AND REMEMBER... Whether you're a fade, gorge, skulk, marine, jetpacker, exo or commander or anything at all.... COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE.
Where are you?
What are you doing?
Why are you doing it?
When will you/it be done?
Where are they?
Why are they there?
Where are my teammates?
Are you ready to attack?
Should you wait and ambush?
Should you run in and surround the hive?
Do you need a scan?
When will my next alien ability be done researching?
Where is the crag?
Where is the shift?
Where is the armory?
Where are the drifters?
Why aren't there drifters?
Is the power under attack?
Where is it under attack?
By how many enemies?
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Once you understand these concepts, or even get a feel for them, you're already better than the average public game player.
From there, its just a matter of finding out the little things in the game like....
Onos Gores does more damage if you hit a marine mid-charge. Charge increases you to maximum speed in approximately 1 second.
DUDE i played the game in your avatar when I was like 4½... It was SO hard. The cat jumped so high.
Oh the thread. I'm not that good, but I got ridiculously better after getting a decent mouse. Couldn't believe how much playing with crappy hardware can affect. Or sitting in a half broken chair. But I'm casual so m'kaaaay.
Being good at NS2 is subjective. A lone marine who goes 1 and 30 but kills 8 harvesters is a better asset than the guy who baited his teammates all game and went 30 and 1. Being good at this game is about map sense, positioning, cooperation, and AWARENESS. But like many others have said, getting a stable FPS does help.
I never got good... Even after 1,000 hours . I never cease to be amazed at the skill of some players. Sometimes, a Skulk will close the distance faster than I can track them, and dance around me so perfectly I never even see them again before I'm dead!
I never got good... Even after 1,000 hours . I never cease to be amazed at the skill of some players. Sometimes, a Skulk will close the distance faster than I can track them, and dance around me so perfectly I never even see them again before I'm dead!
Did they ever consider firing you for not being good at the game after playing 1000 hours? Show some respect
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
i'm on 1200 hours now, i finaly get 60 fps and i finaly get a positive kdr! HIP HIP HOORAAAAY!
I did at some point in the beta manage to get a 40-1 kdr with 30 fps as aliens, however. my skulking is ready, sensei!
I never got good... Even after 1,000 hours . I never cease to be amazed at the skill of some players. Sometimes, a Skulk will close the distance faster than I can track them, and dance around me so perfectly I never even see them again before I'm dead!
Did they ever consider firing you for not being good at the game after playing 1000 hours? Show some respect
Hugh is constantly threatened to be fired. They don't need to make up more reasons.
I never got good... Even after 1,000 hours . I never cease to be amazed at the skill of some players. Sometimes, a Skulk will close the distance faster than I can track them, and dance around me so perfectly I never even see them again before I'm dead!
I once saw one of the Nexiul guys. As a skulk he moved like an animal, was rather terrifying.
There are 2 areas of skill. 1 killing, 2 awareness
For killing, Sometimes I feel it really depend on other team. Because there is no ranking you are not sure how good the other team is. Sometimes as marine I can get to 5-1 or 10-1 kill to death ratio, but I dont know if it is because:
1. I am good
2. Alien sucks
3. I got more upgrade/they got less upgrade.
4. The situation of the fight (I am defending/I am alone/They are attacking in group etc)
Especially with shotgun I noticed that even slight change in alien movement patten can throw off your shot, so instead of 1 hit kill a skulk it takes 3-4 which makes a huge difference between killing 4 in 4 shots or dieing and killing nothing.
For awareness you do improve with experience.
1. Know all the places where alien can come from
2. Know what to build first
3. Know how to protect yourself against surprises
4. Know where to go. etc.
I think for commander you have the biggest increase in skill with experience, however that platoues off quickly because it is also largely depend on the players. There are times when..
1. Someone on the other team going 10-1 right from the start (then turn in a fade and go 40-1)
2. People dont go the right way. This is the most common way to lose. Like 5-6 marine pushing a heavily defended area for no reason...so 6 players on your team is fighting maybe 3 players on their team leaving 3 other players to run around and kill your stuff
3. Constantly lose fight encounters: for whatever reason 5 of your guys vs 5 of their guys get to a crtical area. and all of yours die while they only lost 1..
If any of those happens you are going to lose. People like to blame you for not getting upgrades, which is funning in 2 ways:
1. It is not like you are siphoning money off. Everyone would love to get upgrade including commander!, but when you keep losing RT before it is even build, there is no money
2. You usually are not losing because you are missing 10% damage..
Well I have been better than the average player for a while now.
I played alien a lot for a while. I probably average a K:D of around 7ish and am always in the top three for score by the end.
It is only of late that I've started nailing it down as a marine. Learning how to effectively use the shotgun was quite a big factor, as well as being efficient with exos.
Considering I played FPS games since I was very young, it didn't take me very long to start shining in pub games. I'd say about 100 hours got me to that point. I now have 300 and learned a lot since then, and there's much more to learn. Comp games are another story, as I didn't have the opportunity to participate in some serious games yet.
It took me 300 hours to learn how to dodge 5 shotgun blasts in a row as a Skulk and kill the (fairly competent) marine without getting hit.
As for strategic decisions, it did take some time to learn what are the priorities, where I am needed, etc. Enough to do well in pub games, probably not good at all for comp games.
I got good at the game by realizing I should just stick to support roles, so gorge + welding/mines is where I get my kicks. I've accepted that my aim is just never gonna be good enough
Comments
getting better in NS2 is hard to pinpoint. First step definitely is the aiming and movement which gets better and better as marine so you hit more and get hit less. Also as skulk your movement increses so you know how to run up and jump off walls in battles to get hit less.
I think besides raw combat skill the overall skill is determined by 3 main factors:
1) know where you are needed
2) communicate with the team where help is required
3) know how to help your team where youre needed
with 3) I mean that experianced players know how to take on certain situations. You have to know when to push and when to retreat, know the best way to push a hive/room and so on. Also with time especially as marine you get a feeling for which targets the higher lifeforms will most likely attack. So in the midst of the combat you can pick your targets and evade being focussed.
When you stop using the 's' key as marines
When you stop spamming mouse1 (both sides!)
When you figured out the importance of res nodes (as opposed to K/D ratios)
When you stop chewing down every powernode you find
When you can start making good judgement calls on where and when to attack/defend
I have the same problem and can see this at many other players. As soon as you think from yourself, that you are better than the default pubber, your teamwork gets bad. You stop running with the crowd, because you know better where to attack. You are completely forgetting that your idea isn't probably the best or only valid in any case. I try to remember myself constantly to focus on teamplay again and instead of doing RT-hunts alone, I talk to the people where we should attack.
This works best when you play with friends.
On topic: I think you get good at the same time you know all the maps without looking at the mini-map to see where you are. Others than that, my performance is different from day to day. Sometimes I lead the boards by far, sometimes I'm one of the last. I think one part of this phenomenon is, that I love to play Lerk. While I can mostly kill 1-2 separated marines, in greater groups I only poison them and spore the room. That helps my team, but doesn't get me much points, because scarce I happen to get the kill.
On most official servers I tend to top the scoreboard, and I'm not happy if I'm on less than 2:1 K:D, but that's not the question. I have 162h in so far. Still a lot to learn, and I need to spend less time commanding to get my aim back up to scratch as marines!
I'm at around 600 hours and I've played countless hours of NS1 from v1.0.
Getting better at the game can be divided into 2 major parts, imo.
[KDR] and [Tech Tree/Timing Knowledge]
KDR is something that just comes with playing the game, getting a feel for the glancing bites/swipes and familiarizing yourself with the weapons. Its not a big thing to worry about cause you're practicing that everytime you play the game.
TechTree/Timing Knowledge is the more important thing to consider. The best way to understand it is to simply command. Here are some questions I ask myself whenever I command:
How large is the map?
If the map is exceedingly small, like Summit, then investing in high priority phase gates or celerity might not be as beneficial as expanding creep and capturing resource nozzles.
What kind of build order should I follow based on the size of the map?
If the map exceedingly large like Mineshaft, it may be more beneficial to invest in quick phase gates or celerity. Especially on NS_Veil, it is important to get a phase gate or shift+eggs into Nanogrid, relatively quickly.
Where did I spawn?
Where did the enemy spawn?
Expand, usually in the opposite direction of the enemy spawn, unless you want to take a risk and place a forward armory.
What kind of build order should I follow based on the location of the enemy spawn in respect to the location of my spawn?
If marines and aliens spawned next to each other, marines should expect constant rushes and and aliens should potentially expect the same.
How many and in which direction should my marines be scouting towards at the beginning of the match?
Hypothetical Situation: Game Starts. 8 marines, 1 commander. Send 4 marines east and 3 marines west and have 1 marine stay in base to build.
Hypothetical Situation: Game Starts. 8 marines, 1 commander. Send 3 marines east and 3 marines west and have 2 marine stay in base to build and defend against a potential rush.
What strategic locations should I capture?
Usually, but not always, the best strategic location to capture is one that has the less points of entry and the more ability to travel to other parts of the map quickly. For example: Nanogrid, Crossroads.
How much of my initial resources should I invest into extractors/harvesters versus tech and upgrades?
Should I invest into 3 extractors an armory and an observatory? OR Risk 5 extractors? OR Get mines first then an observatory? How will that affect my personal and team resource flow?
Should I get celerity/carapace/camoflauge early and delay higher lifeforms? OR should I invest in Harvesters more?
How competent are my teammates?
Are they noobs running around like chickens with their heads cut off or are they good at following commands? Who is willing to learn and who already knows what they are doing?
Which players have a high KDR?
Players with high KDR should obviously be given more offensive/scouting orders rather than defensive/building orders.
Which players are good team players?
Players without a high KDR should be given more defensive/building orders rather than offensive/scouting orders.
Where should should I sent specific players based on their individual traits?
Hypothetical Situation: Game Starts. 8 marines, 1 commander.
Send a group of marines containing 1 or 2 high KDR marines with 1 or 2 team-oriented marines in each direction. Keep 1-2 team-oriented marines in Base to build.
What upgrade should I get based on the competency of my team?
Is my whole team bad at shooting? Try getting Armor 1 before Weapons 1 to increase their survivability.
Is my whole team full of badass sharpshooters? Try getting Weapons 1 before Armor 1 to increase offense.
Is my team not responding quickly enough when an extractor/harvester is dying? Try getting mines to buy some extra time.
Is your team bad at skulking? Gorging? Fading? Onosing? Who should go fade or gorge or onos?
How many harvester/extractors does the enemy have and where?
Its always good to have a general idea of when to expect certain enemy tech. The best way to get that general idea is to know how many harvester/extractors the enemy has and for how long they have had them.
When was the last time an enemy harvester or extractor was killed?
Its always important to harrass their resources. duh
Approximately how much time until the first lerk/fade/onos appears on the battle field? (Depending on the alien's harvester count)
Always stay one step ahead of the enemy team's tech. Have the aliens had 4 harvesters constantly throughout the game? Then try to get armor 1 and/or armor 2 and/or shotguns before the 7-8 minute mark.
What kind of reaction will a certain attack result in?
If I harrass harvesters/extractors constantly, marines will likely react by researching welders and/or mines, or placing forward-whips/crags/shifts/shades.
If marines have exosuits, I should try to force a beacon, leaving the exosuits on the battlefield without welders to heal them.
Etc. Etc. Etc.
AND REMEMBER... Whether you're a fade, gorge, skulk, marine, jetpacker, exo or commander or anything at all.... COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE, COMMUNICATE.
Where are you?
What are you doing?
Why are you doing it?
When will you/it be done?
Where are they?
Why are they there?
Where are my teammates?
Are you ready to attack?
Should you wait and ambush?
Should you run in and surround the hive?
Do you need a scan?
When will my next alien ability be done researching?
Where is the crag?
Where is the shift?
Where is the armory?
Where are the drifters?
Why aren't there drifters?
Is the power under attack?
Where is it under attack?
By how many enemies?
Etc. Etc. Etc.
Once you understand these concepts, or even get a feel for them, you're already better than the average public game player.
From there, its just a matter of finding out the little things in the game like....
Onos Gores does more damage if you hit a marine mid-charge. Charge increases you to maximum speed in approximately 1 second.
Oh the thread. I'm not that good, but I got ridiculously better after getting a decent mouse. Couldn't believe how much playing with crappy hardware can affect. Or sitting in a half broken chair. But I'm casual so m'kaaaay.
Being good at NS2 is subjective. A lone marine who goes 1 and 30 but kills 8 harvesters is a better asset than the guy who baited his teammates all game and went 30 and 1. Being good at this game is about map sense, positioning, cooperation, and AWARENESS. But like many others have said, getting a stable FPS does help.
Edited for re-wording.
I did at some point in the beta manage to get a 40-1 kdr with 30 fps as aliens, however. my skulking is ready, sensei!
Flayra once suggested that, but then I pointed out I kill him all the time in playtests
Hugh is constantly threatened to be fired. They don't need to make up more reasons.
I once saw one of the Nexiul guys. As a skulk he moved like an animal, was rather terrifying.
For killing, Sometimes I feel it really depend on other team. Because there is no ranking you are not sure how good the other team is. Sometimes as marine I can get to 5-1 or 10-1 kill to death ratio, but I dont know if it is because:
1. I am good
2. Alien sucks
3. I got more upgrade/they got less upgrade.
4. The situation of the fight (I am defending/I am alone/They are attacking in group etc)
Especially with shotgun I noticed that even slight change in alien movement patten can throw off your shot, so instead of 1 hit kill a skulk it takes 3-4 which makes a huge difference between killing 4 in 4 shots or dieing and killing nothing.
For awareness you do improve with experience.
1. Know all the places where alien can come from
2. Know what to build first
3. Know how to protect yourself against surprises
4. Know where to go. etc.
I think for commander you have the biggest increase in skill with experience, however that platoues off quickly because it is also largely depend on the players. There are times when..
1. Someone on the other team going 10-1 right from the start (then turn in a fade and go 40-1)
2. People dont go the right way. This is the most common way to lose. Like 5-6 marine pushing a heavily defended area for no reason...so 6 players on your team is fighting maybe 3 players on their team leaving 3 other players to run around and kill your stuff
3. Constantly lose fight encounters: for whatever reason 5 of your guys vs 5 of their guys get to a crtical area. and all of yours die while they only lost 1..
If any of those happens you are going to lose. People like to blame you for not getting upgrades, which is funning in 2 ways:
1. It is not like you are siphoning money off. Everyone would love to get upgrade including commander!, but when you keep losing RT before it is even build, there is no money
2. You usually are not losing because you are missing 10% damage..
I played alien a lot for a while. I probably average a K:D of around 7ish and am always in the top three for score by the end.
It is only of late that I've started nailing it down as a marine. Learning how to effectively use the shotgun was quite a big factor, as well as being efficient with exos.
But I imagine pro play is a whole different ball game...
It took me 300 hours to learn how to dodge 5 shotgun blasts in a row as a Skulk and kill the (fairly competent) marine without getting hit.
As for strategic decisions, it did take some time to learn what are the priorities, where I am needed, etc. Enough to do well in pub games, probably not good at all for comp games.