We had ARC-Fana smurf his way onto a KKG server last night as 'blargh', he went like 25-0 as a lerk before getting bored and fading up to go well over 40-0. He kept being incredibly accurate with spikes, racking up kill after kill in succession. What I don't understand (I was playing on aliens at the time) is how several marines can empty their LMGs on him and miss most of their shots, not everyone is THAT bad of a shot on a lerk with no upgrades.
So what makes people like him so incredibly good?
- hardware plays a role of course (mouse/kb/monitor/computer)
- 16hrs of play a day?
- red bull?
- being in the zone at all times?
The lerk thing I get- I see plenty of players cheesing the hitbox, if you move a certain way as a lerk, it's nearly impossible to get good hitreg- I experimented with a friend who does it, and he just flew back and forth doing it, and maybe 1-3 bullets hit out of 20.
Hm well pretty much use to talk about skills - never seen so far any people playing professional with an unstable FPS Count (not in any shooter)- as long as the FPS are not on a stable level the mouse movement will NEVER be the same and it does move into a "skillcap" for most players, same for me atm. in ~220 hours i can manage in CS GO to become Global Elite rank - easy going for me while i play shooters for around 13 years now. but since the 100th hour i did not increased my aim for this game anymore because of that horrible frames, wich causes me a smooth early game where everything is fine and after some minutes the fps start to drop below 60 and even with 60 fps the game starts to suffer by laggy mousemovement already - a stable 80 FPS would be nice to become a aim machine
Not enough of us can afford the $1,000,000 computer required to play NS2 with smooth framerates. I attribute this factor to the large number of players unable to aim.
Pain User finished 3rd in SC2 MLG tournament. He's a caster mostly now. At least Nadagast is a high level player too. I think I also saw Syckness in some MLG bracket, although I'm not sure he's the NS player. Sonder played in EU Grandmaster at some point, I think.
At least Rebeli and Wltrs have been some of the top European scouts in TF2. Admirable, Pizza, Masiina and probably a dozen others have played on pretty high level too.
S4 won Dreamhack Dota 2 in nth and seems to be one of the top up and coming players in the whole scene.
If I remember correctly, Makaveli played some Quake related game at high level at some point. I'm not completely sure about that one though.
Nice to know. I'm surprised some guys went to RTS's and MOBA's though. I would have thought skills learned through NS1 would have translated better to other competitive FPS's.
Not enough of us can afford the $1,000,000 computer required to play NS2 with smooth framerates. I attribute this factor to the large number of players unable to aim.
I think some people just can't aim.
pretending the performance issue doesn't exist is rather obnoxious, especially when you consider nsl_summit / tram being immensely popular to their FPS drain counterparts, and that's from the maps alone, to say nothing of the players / particles / entities / infestation etc
Yes, until you try fighting 2-3 skulks on screen at the same time on a 2.8 - 3.4 ghz core duo and then compare doing the exact same thing on 4.6 ghz 3770k you really don't appreciate how important performance is in this game.
It won't make you a better player, but it substantially raises the ceiling on what you can or cannot do in this game.
Not enough of us can afford the $1,000,000 computer required to play NS2 with smooth framerates. I attribute this factor to the large number of players unable to aim.
I think some people just can't aim.
pretending the performance issue doesn't exist is rather obnoxious, especially when you consider nsl_summit / tram being immensely popular to their FPS drain counterparts, and that's from the maps alone, to say nothing of the players / particles / entities / infestation etc
I never said the performance issue doesn't exist, I just said I think that there are some people, whom aiming just evades. If everyone ran 6ghz 500fps pc's they wouldn't all be pro shots.
Pain User finished 3rd in SC2 MLG tournament. He's a caster mostly now. At least Nadagast is a high level player too. I think I also saw Syckness in some MLG bracket, although I'm not sure he's the NS player. Sonder played in EU Grandmaster at some point, I think.
At least Rebeli and Wltrs have been some of the top European scouts in TF2. Admirable, Pizza, Masiina and probably a dozen others have played on pretty high level too.
S4 won Dreamhack Dota 2 in nth and seems to be one of the top up and coming players in the whole scene.
If I remember correctly, Makaveli played some Quake related game at high level at some point. I'm not completely sure about that one though.
Nice to know. I'm surprised some guys went to RTS's and MOBA's though. I would have thought skills learned through NS1 would have translated better to other competitive FPS's.
For smooth transition you've got TF2 and L4D. If neither wins over your heart, you're probably going to have to look elsewhere.
I think at least SC2 is pretty soft in terms of RTS skill requirements though. It's more about having the mindset to optimize things and to patiently execute a good plan with good routine. Certainly there's some of the RTS micromacromultitasking stuff in it too, but in general the whole game seems to be built so that it's really hard to go toe-to-toe raw skill showdown against your opponent. Someone like Sjow is probably worse than me in terms of handspeed and in no ways an impressive multitasker, but could win loads of stuff during the first year of SC2. Later on the mechanical requirements have certainly steepened, which kind of forced some people to drop out.
Lol, poor Hudson and that movie, is there any single line that hasn't been quoted somewhere in the gaming world (except for maybe 'my name is newt' ... oh, oops)
i only have limited experience in the ns1 competitive scene, but i certainly have experience watching and even talking directly to some of these players (as an old DJ). what i remember most about ns1 competitive vs ns2 competitive:
1) NA scene was much bigger in ns1, lasted a while, but not NEARLY as long as the EU competitive ns1 scene. EU simply has more competitive players for ns1 AND ns2.
2) as ns2 developed, one of the key differences was how it was easier to learn than ns1. this is what UWE wanted (me too actually). but some people didnt like this, a lot of them were competitive ns1 players that were fond of the higher learning curve. they prolly still play ns2, just not competitively
3) while ns1 and ns2 are entirely different games, they have similarities still. people who were good at high level ns1 play will certainly have an advantage in high level ns2 play. endurance starts to become a factor when you have to play a team close to your skill and the games go very long.
Arc is pretty much an All-Star team of former ns1 greats. The reason they dont have much competition is they're the some of the only ones left with this unique skillset of playing Natural Selection at top-level for about a decade.
I never expected those who had new responsibilities who left a while before NS2's release to suddenly drop everything and come to NS2, Fana. However, I expected more of the remaining faithful to stick around. The NS1 scene had only recently become zombie-like when NS2 started gaining speed and the NS1 faithful was crying out for a replacement. Sure, alot of the dearth of talent came before NS2 but I still don't think any top players other than you really went for it and I hoped that those players could find a new home here. It was a running joke that you took NS2 so seriously for ages, for example! Besides, my large steamfriends list of those playing, even at NS1's death, is anecdotal evidence enough for me that these guys are not strapped for time to play NS2, just enthusiasm.
Here's (I assume) Scrajm's youtube channel which shows his perspective being comm/kamm. http://www.youtube.com/user/Scrajm/videos?flow=grid&view=0
The videos are pretty old (latest video still shows onos egg drop at 2 hives) but it does give some insight into their communication, teamwork etc.
on public generally i dont die as a lerk, they are extremely effective and versatile. going 30-0 as a skulk would be impressive
Dare I say that going 30 for 0 as skulk would be a misallocation of resources. Sometimes dying is required, or at least beneficial. A fair trade at the very least.
I think it boils down to that team must consist of very good at fps and at identifying and exploiting openings in other teams play. Which ever team can do this most effectively and consistently will win. You have to be able to change your strategy mid game and do it very fast if you encounter resistance that will take too long time to break. Always have to be searching for the soft spot and move focus there quickly.
It's Scrajm - I wanna lick his brains. I get nerd chills every time he commands.
Oh yeah, and some of his field marines he has to constantly aimbot-medspam to survive are somewhat ok. But his use of the whip to keep discipline in the team combined with the threat of visiting them if they dare to leave the team made it possible to have the most solid roster in all teams NS2 has seen so far, so that he has some acceptable material to work with.
It is also quite astonishing how Scrajm can motivate his rookies so they actually hit some bullets, in average 1 out of 4, to fulfill his superior strategic goals. He also manipulated Fana's head with the terrifying thought that if his lerk ever touches the bottom he would hit hot brewing lava just to make him fly in panical erratic moves making it almost impossible to hit him. Tane is mentally controlled by Scrajm, actually all his moves and game understanding is directed by Scrajm himself. To cover this up, he wrote some outstanding Marine guides about positioning with the name "Tane" as author and made him believe that the work was actually his. Poor mindless zombie.
Koruyo on the other hand is Scrajm's youngling and padawan so he received some "leadership" role. Hah. We all know who is really behind the strings. Eagleeye has his name for a reason, Scrajm implanted him some eagle eyes for an experiment if he could aim better with them - it actually worked out well, eagleeye is now a deadly sharpshooter, but he has to fully obey to Scrajm's commands if he ever wants his real eyes back. Some silent tongues even insisted eagleeye could see marines through walls as an alien with those. He personally just does as Scrajm commands and always answers: "Sound, bro."
I didn't pick up the story behind Skuggan yet...but it must be really horrifying since every time Scrajm pushes a certain button on his desk, Skuggan screams very loud in the teamspeak channel and gets an instant triple kill on some poor skulks nearby. (If anyone figured out how the hell he does that with Skuggan yet, TELL ME! It's really annoying to play against this guy.)
And I'm not sure if I can tell you what he did to ray and Treffnix, probably this thread would get censored, so I rather keep this to myself for the moment.
Reminds me of KiN from TFC. They played Quake Team Fortress competitively, then when Team Fortress Classic was released, they stomped over the competition because of their previous experience in comp Team Fortress, which no other teams had. When the rest of the teams finally got enough experience and skill, KiN finally started losing. .... Pretty much the same thing is going on here.
There was a high level TFCer named Makaveli who also played Quake Live and some other Quake spin offs. Still does, last I talked to him. I don't know if he played Ns2, but it wouldn't surprise me.
(the next level) Nx^ Makaveli , I believe, is who you are talking about. I was on the same team as him in TFC.
It's Scrajm - I wanna lick his brains. I get nerd chills every time he commands.
Oh yeah, and some of his field marines he has to constantly aimbot-medspam to survive are somewhat ok. But his use of the whip to keep discipline in the team combined with the threat of visiting them if they dare to leave the team made it possible to have the most solid roster in all teams NS2 has seen so far, so that he has some acceptable material to work with.
It is also quite astonishing how Scrajm can motivate his rookies so they actually hit some bullets, in average 1 out of 4, to fulfill his superior strategic goals. He also manipulated Fana's head with the terrifying thought that if his lerk ever touches the bottom he would hit hot brewing lava just to make him fly in panical erratic moves making it almost impossible to hit him. Tane is mentally controlled by Scrajm, actually all his moves and game understanding is directed by Scrajm himself. To cover this up, he wrote some outstanding Marine guides about positioning with the name "Tane" as author and made him believe that the work was actually his. Poor mindless zombie.
Koruyo on the other hand is Scrajm's youngling and padawan so he received some "leadership" role. Hah. We all know who is really behind the strings. Eagleeye has his name for a reason, Scrajm implanted him some eagle eyes for an experiment if he could aim better with them - it actually worked out well, eagleeye is now a deadly sharpshooter, but he has to fully obey to Scrajm's commands if he ever wants his real eyes back. Some silent tongues even insisted eagleeye could see marines through walls as an alien with those. He personally just does as Scrajm commands and always answers: "Sound, bro."
I didn't pick up the story behind Skuggan yet...but it must be really horrifying since every time Scrajm pushes a certain button on his desk, Skuggan screams very loud in the teamspeak channel and gets an instant triple kill on some poor skulks nearby. (If anyone figured out how the hell he does that with Skuggan yet, TELL ME! It's really annoying to play against this guy.)
And I'm not sure if I can tell you what he did to ray and Treffnix, probably this thread would get censored, so I rather keep this to myself for the moment.
Scrajm typed that and paid you to post it, didn't he?
To maybe steer this thread more in the direction I intended for it to go, a clarification may be required.
Instead of asking "why are Archaea so good", what I should have asked was, why are Archaea so good when compared to their competitive counterparts.
Yes, Archaea players have very good aim, fair point, and this factor makes them very good. But why is their aim better than the other competitive players? Natural-Selection certainly has a fairly distinct aiming style to it, but it definitely can't be considered the single most demanding game in existence, aim wise. So why aren't other players, possibly with experience in other demanding games, as good?
The NS1/NS2 crossover point is a good example of what I'm looking for. It clearly highlights concrete differences that are based on a sequence of events that lead up to this point.
Maybe if this game was actually balanced you'd see more people bother with competitive play. It's not hard for one team to dominate when there's only a handful of other teams you have to compete with. That being said, they ARE really good in what they do, too good at the moment compared to the other teams.
As for 'strategy', I always find it laughable when people imply NS 2 has a lot of strategic depth and/or variety, that simply isn't the case. So it's rather a combination of flawless aim and top-notch coordination/teamwork more than anything else.
Game balance doesn't really have anything to do with match play. When each team plays alien once and marine once the sum of the two games is perfectly symmetrical. With that in mind, the two sides only need be balanced enough so that every match doesn't end in a draw.
But why is their aim better than the other competitive players? Natural-Selection certainly has a fairly distinct aiming style to it, but it definitely can't be considered the single most demanding game in existence, aim wise. So why aren't other players, possibly with experience in other demanding games, as good?
The NS1/NS2 crossover point is a good example of what I'm looking for. It clearly highlights concrete differences that are based on a sequence of events that lead up to this point.
In how many games do you need to build a RT while watching minimap, watching entrances to your room in order to hit not-so-little-anymore adversaries that can go on the ground, walls and ceiling at various speeds and with various angles ?
This reminds me of a story :
Somewhere in 2004 or 2005, a small LAN event took place in France. I think 2 or 3 NS teams went there to meet and play some NS. They built some kind of mix to play the Counter-Strike tournament and ended winning it against regular CS players, while themselves had barely touched the game in the 6 months before the event... And much trolling was had afterwards
Comments
The lerk thing I get- I see plenty of players cheesing the hitbox, if you move a certain way as a lerk, it's nearly impossible to get good hitreg- I experimented with a friend who does it, and he just flew back and forth doing it, and maybe 1-3 bullets hit out of 20.
I think some people just can't aim.
It won't make you a better player, but it substantially raises the ceiling on what you can or cannot do in this game.
I never said the performance issue doesn't exist, I just said I think that there are some people, whom aiming just evades. If everyone ran 6ghz 500fps pc's they wouldn't all be pro shots.
I think at least SC2 is pretty soft in terms of RTS skill requirements though. It's more about having the mindset to optimize things and to patiently execute a good plan with good routine. Certainly there's some of the RTS micromacromultitasking stuff in it too, but in general the whole game seems to be built so that it's really hard to go toe-to-toe raw skill showdown against your opponent. Someone like Sjow is probably worse than me in terms of handspeed and in no ways an impressive multitasker, but could win loads of stuff during the first year of SC2. Later on the mechanical requirements have certainly steepened, which kind of forced some people to drop out.
http://makspoint.ytmnd.com/
http://bdropped.ytmnd.com/
1) NA scene was much bigger in ns1, lasted a while, but not NEARLY as long as the EU competitive ns1 scene. EU simply has more competitive players for ns1 AND ns2.
2) as ns2 developed, one of the key differences was how it was easier to learn than ns1. this is what UWE wanted (me too actually). but some people didnt like this, a lot of them were competitive ns1 players that were fond of the higher learning curve. they prolly still play ns2, just not competitively
3) while ns1 and ns2 are entirely different games, they have similarities still. people who were good at high level ns1 play will certainly have an advantage in high level ns2 play. endurance starts to become a factor when you have to play a team close to your skill and the games go very long.
Arc is pretty much an All-Star team of former ns1 greats. The reason they dont have much competition is they're the some of the only ones left with this unique skillset of playing Natural Selection at top-level for about a decade.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Scrajm/videos?flow=grid&view=0
The videos are pretty old (latest video still shows onos egg drop at 2 hives) but it does give some insight into their communication, teamwork etc.
Dare I say that going 30 for 0 as skulk would be a misallocation of resources. Sometimes dying is required, or at least beneficial. A fair trade at the very least.
Oh man, I missed this earlier, gold.
Scrajm counter: 9.
(the next level) Nx^ Makaveli , I believe, is who you are talking about. I was on the same team as him in TFC.
Scrajm typed that and paid you to post it, didn't he?
Instead of asking "why are Archaea so good", what I should have asked was, why are Archaea so good when compared to their competitive counterparts.
Yes, Archaea players have very good aim, fair point, and this factor makes them very good. But why is their aim better than the other competitive players? Natural-Selection certainly has a fairly distinct aiming style to it, but it definitely can't be considered the single most demanding game in existence, aim wise. So why aren't other players, possibly with experience in other demanding games, as good?
The NS1/NS2 crossover point is a good example of what I'm looking for. It clearly highlights concrete differences that are based on a sequence of events that lead up to this point.
Game balance doesn't really have anything to do with match play. When each team plays alien once and marine once the sum of the two games is perfectly symmetrical. With that in mind, the two sides only need be balanced enough so that every match doesn't end in a draw.
In how many games do you need to build a RT while watching minimap, watching entrances to your room in order to hit not-so-little-anymore adversaries that can go on the ground, walls and ceiling at various speeds and with various angles ?
This reminds me of a story :
Somewhere in 2004 or 2005, a small LAN event took place in France. I think 2 or 3 NS teams went there to meet and play some NS. They built some kind of mix to play the Counter-Strike tournament and ended winning it against regular CS players, while themselves had barely touched the game in the 6 months before the event... And much trolling was had afterwards