Alien jumping or bunnyhopping whatever you want to call it.
pimp_mcgee
Join Date: 2013-02-10 Member: 182961Members
Join Date: 2013-02-10 Member: 182961Members
I am still a little new but i can say the amount of jumping in the game is a little ridiculous. It reminds me of the roll meta in battlefront 2 that was pretty damn annoying.
There needs to be a speed hit after anyone jumps to make them think twice about jump spamming. I have seen single skulk kill 3 marines but i have never seen a single marine kill 3 skulks, kind of shows you how unbalanced the fast jump meta is.
You dont need to completely cut speed after the first jump you could even maybe make it to where it cuts down speed on every jump so it stacks or decreases by percentage every jump.
Had a few games where it just feels basic skulks can fast harrass kill a marine or two and keep doing it so they cant even push out of where they are without buying a shotgun or something.
Which is a complete downside when you have to buy a shotgun to counter something but then you die because you were half health, then you have to buy another shotgun while the harrasser just spams the free skulks to wear down resources.
Now people are saying to get commander to give medikit but that is unreliable cause i had a couple say it costs too much which i dont mind since it could go to something more important, also running back to base to heal and then push is unreliable because now you have gotten nowhere.
Yes bunny hopping skulks is ridiculous, good luck pushing against a good alien team if they can just out harrass you before you can even begin to push.
Just my opinion is all, i have played on alien side plenty of times to know charging a marine from a long corridor is suicide most of the time but when bunny hopping you can reach him and even kill him most of the time. I rarely if ever set traps with other aliens since it isnt needed when you and 2 other skulks can jump on 3 guys and kill them everytime since more than half their dps is cut down to half with jumping but is cut even further depending on their accuracy.
There needs to be a speed hit after anyone jumps to make them think twice about jump spamming. I have seen single skulk kill 3 marines but i have never seen a single marine kill 3 skulks, kind of shows you how unbalanced the fast jump meta is.
You dont need to completely cut speed after the first jump you could even maybe make it to where it cuts down speed on every jump so it stacks or decreases by percentage every jump.
Had a few games where it just feels basic skulks can fast harrass kill a marine or two and keep doing it so they cant even push out of where they are without buying a shotgun or something.
Which is a complete downside when you have to buy a shotgun to counter something but then you die because you were half health, then you have to buy another shotgun while the harrasser just spams the free skulks to wear down resources.
Now people are saying to get commander to give medikit but that is unreliable cause i had a couple say it costs too much which i dont mind since it could go to something more important, also running back to base to heal and then push is unreliable because now you have gotten nowhere.
Yes bunny hopping skulks is ridiculous, good luck pushing against a good alien team if they can just out harrass you before you can even begin to push.
Just my opinion is all, i have played on alien side plenty of times to know charging a marine from a long corridor is suicide most of the time but when bunny hopping you can reach him and even kill him most of the time. I rarely if ever set traps with other aliens since it isnt needed when you and 2 other skulks can jump on 3 guys and kill them everytime since more than half their dps is cut down to half with jumping but is cut even further depending on their accuracy.
Comments
Second, stop calling it bunnyhopping. Not just you, everyone who cries about "bunnyhopping". There isn't bunnyhopping in NS2 and most games people voice complaints about "bunnyhopping". Go play a Quake game and see real bunnyhopping. Early CS and HL games had it, sure, but that was done away with.
Hit registration.
bouncy skulks do feel harder to kill. I've always blamed my aim. But sometimes, sometimes, it feels like hit reg.
You think so? That kind of makes sense, but then again aimbotters dont seem to have problems with it.
Where do you play at? I play in mostly full servers, rookie/non rookie it seems like the marines are always average at best, the worst ones i dont even have to jump to kill them. There is usually a couple of good marines but i usually always get a kill off of them and that is a bad thing for the marines since i can cover more map than they can from spawn so other aliens can just expand for free.
Your joking right? I guess if you want to push to expand you have to what? Yeah thats right put yourself in a bad position since im wall climbing over the door you are about to go through so if you see me you back up and thats a win for me since you're no longer pushing, else you see me fire a few shots and i kill you while my alien buddies jump on the guys behind you. If your guys behind you are too far out the support camps and wait for me to respawn then you are back to zero at pushing.
In NS1, bunnyhopping was predominantly an A -> B and mattered most when you first entered combat. Once engaged, spamming jump was counter-productive because, without momentum, it just offered your opponent a nice slow trajectory to follow. A wall-jump here and there could be effective but only very situationally - most skulks strafed around the marines or side-to-side.
In NS2, jumping is par for course in pretty much every situation. You walljump up to a marine and you keep spamming jump because you can air-wobble the skulk and change trajectory at whim, needing absolutely no momentum to make this effective. The is most true at lower skill-levels where mashing jump is almost always the optimal thing to do.
I think this is one of the reasons why NS1 felt chaotic but clean - engaging could happen very quickly but, once in melee range, you kind of knew what was happening. In NS2, it feels chaotic and messy because engaging happens quickly and, once in melee range, you're still waving your mouse all over the place following unpredictable lines. I guess it's down to what you prefer.
No kidding, I've even seen green-texts take on 3 skulks on occasion. It depends on positioning and preparedness.
Heh, we even have a derisive name for that here: Doorway Admirers.
The general idea is to send a guy through as bait, and the other guys shoot 'em off his back.
It can't be, that a skulk comes in a straight line while bunny hopping to your position, and you just aim for the middle of his up/down movement, you only manage to hit it with 1 bullet out of 50, and so making only 10 damage.
Thats not even possible from an statistically viewpoint. Since that bunny hopping skulk meets your aimpoint at least 4 times before the clip runs out, so at least 40 should be possible, but seldom happens.
Now I wait for those bunny hoppers, to be close by, to also start bunny hopping like they did and have all 50 rounds for close combat ready.
(But somehow its funny to see just bunny hopping aliens and marines, like its a bunny hopping best of game instead of an FPS.)
Just to highlight a reason why this kind of thing is tricky to balance.
I agree with you that, because of the skill required to shoot a fast moving skulk, you can frequently see multiple inexperienced players die to a single skulk. However, I assure you, in a competitive game with high skilled players, you will never see a single skulk take on multiple marines, though you will at times see exceptional marines take on multiple skulks.
Its a double edged blade when it comes to balance unfortunately.
Air control is a bit excessive, not jumping in of itself. Some Skulks seem to move in the air with as much control as a Lerk. Getting it to a point where it can still be used well with skill but just spamming it isn't so effective would be good.
Railings, boxes, etc... You don't lose speed by jumping if you land on a higher surface, skulks that try to jump over an obstacle for a bite will stick to it and slow down. You should b-line to any of these in any room you're in when expecting a fight.
Don't press S, turn sideways and use A or D + jump to move back/away faster mid-fight.
If there's a skulk above a door and you know he's there, you just walk in, look up, and shoot him. If you start shooting him before he moves there isn't enough time for him to move before dying because of lag comp.
And of course it is yet another skill that you can develop to make yourself a better player, which is good. Yes, I have trouble killing skulks that are good at jumping, especially when they combine it with running on walls and ceilings. My rsponse to it is to try and aim and position myself better, not asking the developers to handicap my opponents.
i've not heard of any cheats for ns2 so far.
but once uwe start fixing this, they will also have to SHRINK THE SKULK BACK TO NS1 SIZE.
at the moment its abnormal big compared to ns1. but thats needed because the engine sucks
so much at hit detection right now.
even the best players in the world, cant go over 30% as marines.
in quake engine based games its often more than 80%
that tells us A LOT!
but on the other side, killing three skulks in a row on a public is not a great deal, especially in the early game. and after shotguns with weapon three arrived ... dont ask :P
going 30:0 on public is a regular and boring thing for competitive players,
so keep on working on your setup as much as possible (fast 120hz monitor, good cpu overclocked to 5ghz, all settings at low as possible, reduce resolution as far as possible, (read this: http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/127986/fps-benchmarking-an-update )stable internetconnection (no wlan!) with low ping and good mouse setup (1000hz pooling rate, good combination of surface and sensor and so on)) but as this is true art and will take around half a year to find out, start doing it now.
then it is also way more easy to train your aim too and you will find jumping as a skulk as necessary as when you play marine because jumping to the side once a second will keep you alive on public for ever. esp when your com medpacks and nano shields you :PP
well, thats something tane from archaea (the best team in the world for over half a year by now) a year ago about positioning. its meant for competitive matches but you can get a clue of the level at which some of the players are competing on: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PqnAuicnfMN9hU-253q32IYWWE2qIWVimuLqK9ONYEY/edit
good luck, keep trial and error and play as much as you can!
and work on your setup, its a long way to go there...
If you're so certain of that you should try recording your play and viewing it again afterwards. I think you'll be surprised.
Walljumping before cele/leap requires much more effort early game and is situational based on the terrain available. Any marine who doesn't aim with his chin should win his share of encounters.
A thousand times this.
Bunnyhopping is not "jumping around like a mad man". Bunnyhopping is a very specific mechanic.
Language evolving has nothing to do with calling a horse a dog "cuz it has four feet and a tail lol".
heh
Such gross oversimplifications only add to "language creep" thereby diluting and dulling a precise instrument.
"The term is most used in first-person shooters to refer to act of pressing the jump key while holding crouch and a movement key to move faster (especially when going down a slope) and/or to evade attacks more effectively. In several games based on Quake engines or their derivatives moving in a zigzag pattern while bunny hopping (see strafejumping) is the fastest way to move around and increases length of jumps, making the player an even more difficult target." is cleary more than just jumpin' around all nimbly bimbly.
Bunnyhopping is a combination of movements, in conjunction with Jumping, to continuously gain speed. In the Half-life Engine, it was alternating, well timed, continuous strafe jumping with specific mouse movements, without ever touching the forward movement key. Ducking is often irrelevant. It's the same in a lot of games. Some games (Fortress Forever, for example) allow the movement to work while pressing the movement key, to simplify it.
Jumping madly in a game where you do not gain increased mobility is not bunnyhopping. That is jumping constantly. Same with ducking while jumping. That is duck jumping.
Bunnyhopping is a specific movement mechanic of certain games, a movement exploit in others and non-existent in most.
Language can change, but that doesn't mean that people aren't taking a term they don't understand, applying it incorrectly then saying that it's correct.
I think we have become too attached to the term bunnyhopping since it was used in NS1.
I think its quite clear that what you just described would be far better described by the word strafejumping, since one of its main characteristics is the heavy use of the strafe keys.
If you observed a rabbit when it moves around, you would notice that the term "bunnyhopping" is actually perfect for that erratic and quite inexact action that players perform when they simply spam the jump key while holding forward.
It's better to just keep the original terminology intact. Calling random jumping something as complex as bunnyhopping is just as bad as calling Deathmatch "Slayer" or whatever the hell kids call it these days.
edit: heh- I just remembered Tri-Chording. Can anyone guess where that was from?
That is again, incorrect.
How the movement looks, how it's held over from NS1 (irrelevant, really) and how it is a perfect example for erratic movement is pointless. The term is an old Quake term and is applied along those lines when referring to a movement mechanic.
Strafe jumping is the act of jumping side to side, while pressing forward. In some Quake games, and the HL engine in particular, this allowed a low (5-10%) speed increase that could be continually maintained. It didn't allow much in the way of mobility as once you broke off that straight line path, or turned you lost the speed.
It's notably different as bunnyhopping: could get you very fast speed gains, infinitely so in some circumstances, was a lot harder to master, distinctly did not use the forward key, was impacted (to a degree) by mouse movements and was not restricted to a straight line.