Build 240 Balance Mod update
rantology
Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143750Members, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Gold, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Gold
Hi all,
Flayra's Balance workshop mod has been updated with some new prototype changes for build 240. The changes are in need of thorough testing, so it would be hugely helpful that if possible, any clans here could run this mod while playing scrims/PCWs.
So far the changes are as follows:
O Increase the spawn time for marines to 10 sec.
O Remove the alien spawn system. Create a new alien spawn system
where aliens queue up for a spawn. They spawn after 7 sec or as soon
as a egg is available. There should be a queue for each build hive.
O Change egg spawn timer to 6 sec.
O Change Crags/shift/shade cost to 15 tres.
O Decrease Crag aoe healing radius to 8.
O Each target can only be healed by maximum by 2 Crags each tick
O Increase arms lab upgrades costs to 20/30/40
O Decrease nano shield duration to 4 seconds. Increase cooldown to 12 sec.
If you do test these changes out please don't forget to leave feedback.
Flayra's Balance workshop mod has been updated with some new prototype changes for build 240. The changes are in need of thorough testing, so it would be hugely helpful that if possible, any clans here could run this mod while playing scrims/PCWs.
So far the changes are as follows:
O Increase the spawn time for marines to 10 sec.
O Remove the alien spawn system. Create a new alien spawn system
where aliens queue up for a spawn. They spawn after 7 sec or as soon
as a egg is available. There should be a queue for each build hive.
O Change egg spawn timer to 6 sec.
O Change Crags/shift/shade cost to 15 tres.
O Decrease Crag aoe healing radius to 8.
O Each target can only be healed by maximum by 2 Crags each tick
O Increase arms lab upgrades costs to 20/30/40
O Decrease nano shield duration to 4 seconds. Increase cooldown to 12 sec.
If you do test these changes out please don't forget to leave feedback.
Comments
The new respawn changes are pretty huge and might need more adjustments. But I definitely think they are a step in the right direction.
If this is implemented (it should be), the horrible-ness of no res while dead is emphasized even further, however.
It's a 239 bug, when you research one ability, some players do not get said ability and the rest get all others (blink, spores, etc).
Not related to the balance mod.
Will post feedback this weekend hopefully, have it installed on our servers now! (if we play any besides the map cup)
If the issue was it was spammy, wouldn't it be more effective to up the cost of nanoshield? Up from 5 res, to 6 would reduce the ability to spam nanoshield, while still leaving it a powerfully useful ability. The cooldown could be left in perhaps, but dealing both seems like overkill.
The changes to nanoshield are not optimal but they should help alleviate some of the problem; because they are clear nerfs and they will affect the frequency that nano+med spam happens. But the mechanic itself will still retain the same problems, since nothing is actually changing with it..
itll go from nano+med to med only since the new nano isnt worth the 5 res ...
Wouldn't it less cheesy if it were adequately priced though? If a marine team is forced to pop a nanoshield, it means they are gearing up for a heavy push(Or trying to hold a certain location) with sustained econ investment. If the marines are able to spam medpacks so heavily, isn't it also a fault of the alien team for not hammering Rts better? It becomes exceptionally expensive to support nano-pushes with a low flow of Rts pumping money.
If you were to say take the path of bumping from 5 to 6 res per nano, it severely limit the amount of nano casts you apply. The twelve second cooldown seems fair enough to keep onboard, as staying alive six extra seconds should be a challenge of it's own when the powermode wears off. If you look at most typical close games, marines usually hold anywhere from 3-5rts in closer games. The 1 res bump would make maintaining nano with under 6 rts more expensive and could alleviate the spammyness while keeping nanoshiled as a powerful ability.
You can increase the cooldown/price of nano which will reduce the frequency that it's seen, but the game mechanic itself is flawed at the conceptual level and it will be no less frustrating in the end.
Can anyone here say that they truly like the mechanics of nanoshield as they are in the game right now?
The main point behind its nerf and IMO hope removal on players, is that its frustrating to play against, only serves to reduce comm skill requirements (medpack takes aim and precision, nano is fire/forget) and serves the same role as medpacks.
Then it offers a chance to survive fades but not op.
Implement catalyst packs, as they are much more skill oriented.
If they were to be implemented i would hope it would work like NS1. I will also say that the marine weight system needs a major reworking (higher ammo counts should slow you down more, your holstered weapons should count for 100% so running with knife isnt faster etc).
Within ARC splash you mean? I think 8 is about the edge of ARC splash.
* Sounds like the "A-Symmetrical Gameplay of two completely different races" is being made much more Symmetrical... Probably because some <ShouldBeGreenNames> are having some "problems." I haven't seen a single game in which it was an actual problem, so please don't touch it..!
* A comment I saw above "Aliens should be punished for failing rushes," I agree; but it's up to the opposing team to punish them, not up to the game itself! In just about every competitive match; you see that this actually happens! In just about every PUB game, you see that this doesn't... The reason why: Is because Marines play "base defense" for the largest part of the game, until they have all upgrades and can go massive on Exos, safe to say this ISN'T the way you're supposed to play NS2.
* The egg spawn timer was already 6 sec. wasn't it?
* Decreased Crag AoE, lowering effectiveness (max 2 active healing) and increasing cost makes them pretty much useless. I could agree with a limit on the amount of Crags able to heal something, but I would choose 3, instead of 2, I would leave the AoE healing effect higher than the Arc splash range, so you force at least a marine or two inside the Hive location to deal with the crags first (but you could also get an extra Arc, or simply re-position the Arcs). By the way; coloring all buildings covered in an area (for example AoE heal of Crag) to easily show if something would be inside of range or not would make it much easier for PUB players to position Crags just inside healing range and just outside or Arc range). So in short; leave the range, limit the amount of Crags that are effectively healing and increase the cost, but not all 3... Arcs shouldn't be insta-win! (Assuming splash range is 8).
* Why do Shades give cloaking to structures AND lifeforms in the first place? Lifeforms can have Camo. which already does this... So aliens can effectively have 4 upgrades
* Shifts are nice for holding a position or fast-growing a Hive, they could cost a bit more, same as Shades. But again; Shades should only work on structures (and unclaimed eggs, since they are structures too, expect the egg of an actual player evolving).
* I agree with Bitey, increase the cost of Nano and maybe increase the cooldown. On the other hand; Aliens are not forced to stay near that Nano Marine, and what's keeping them from attacking his Non-Nano buddy next to him? It's an expensive hobby to Nano a marine if the fade just leaves, counts till 5 and comes back again
* Increasing all the Arms Lab Upgrade costs will cause MAYHEM in PUBs, 99% of the Marine comms already think it's "Sim City" and like building "pretty bases" with CC, Obs, etc etc etc on every Tech location they can find... IE: Wasting TONS of Res! Meaning that Upgrades are already delayed for ridiculously long in the first place, so plz don't make it even longer! And in competitive play; it has always seemed quite reasonable imo
* Please don't touch the spawns! It's nice that they are so different! Otherwise you might as well give Marines some "Ohnoes" and Aliens some "Eggsosuits"
By the way; Don't forget to make a clear distinction between NA PUB players and EU PUB players! If you think PUBs are bad in NA, come check out the EU servers xD
So the actual "balance issues" that should be addressed are: get a tutorial up that people HAVE to do before they can join online play, so they at least get the basics of the game! Use PG, check the map, pressure RTs, etc etc, instead of stay in base until you finally get an Exo
I've seen games with an Arc player joining Marine; going like a wrecking ball through the map, achieving insane K/D ratios like 43/2 and STILL see marines lose that match... On the other hand; I have NEVER seen any game where Aliens lost when they had a player going 43/2... (If that player was there since the start of the round, instead of joining in later)
( I know this is largely to blame on Marines, in 99% of the times, playing WAY too passively and not being able to exploit the advantage that a no-upgrade marine has vs a no-upgrade alien, but that's the way it is ). Meaning that even for Pro clans, it's HARD to really utilize the starting minutes of the game very well and most tie breakers between equally matched teams fall in favor of the team playing on the Alien side, so give a SMALL skill stack on the Marine side (read; SMALL)!!
* Why do Shades give cloaking to structures AND lifeforms in the first place? Lifeforms can have Camo. which already does this... So aliens can effectively have 4 upgrades
* I agree with Bitey, increase the cost of Nano and maybe increase the cooldown. On the other hand; Aliens are not forced to stay near that Nano Marine, and what's keeping them from attacking his Non-Nano buddy next to him? It's an expensive hobby to Nano a marine if the fade just leaves, counts till 5 and comes back again
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Why 3 and not 2? Is it the magical number? I'm not really attacking you just the idea, which we see similar ones often enough on the I&S Forums.
I'm not super into the numbers but I think as long as you get healed by max% with the allotted crags, whether its 1, 5, or 100, it doesn't really matter. What really matters is the res-sink when building bases, so when we have to build two and not three its a quality of life change for the alien t.res, whether or not they cost 10 or 15.
The reason camo is in the game is because you truly cannot spend the res to get map coverage via shades, especially early game when camo is underrated/powerful.
Lastly, Nanoshield cannot be fixed by a simple price change. The cost is either going to yield a profit, break-even, or a loss. Increasing its cost just makes it a loss in most circumstances.
Cooldown and Duration obviously make it less usable, but not any less effective, especially when used most opportunistically (right before huge bursts of damage).
The damage reduction is the 4th piece of the puzzle that can be altered. All of these need to be tuned. I am partial to the "not affecting players" for the most part, but I really feel the game needs more activated abilties we see in RTS games so it would be sad to see it go.