Sick of bile
Mad selection
Join Date: 2013-01-01 Member: 176967Members
Join Date: 2013-01-01 Member: 176967Members
**Nerf the goddamn bile on buildings at least!
The moment the marines try to push and leave their base you know what happen? 2 gorges, one onos if they want to be fancy and boum don't even have time to beacon unless you stick your nose on the goddamn power node it's ridiculous.
That means that not only you need to leave at least 2 marines at all time at your base but you also have to keep 15 ressources for 1 nano and one beacon because of course the moment the marines get a bit too far away from a phasegate aliens just have to attack with a minimum of manpower to level your base. Ho and the 2 marines left at base? They either walk away without saying a word forcing you to direct your troops like a real asshole or they get killed in 2 secs by a lerk and a skulk.
The moment the marines try to push and leave their base you know what happen? 2 gorges, one onos if they want to be fancy and boum don't even have time to beacon unless you stick your nose on the goddamn power node it's ridiculous.
That means that not only you need to leave at least 2 marines at all time at your base but you also have to keep 15 ressources for 1 nano and one beacon because of course the moment the marines get a bit too far away from a phasegate aliens just have to attack with a minimum of manpower to level your base. Ho and the 2 marines left at base? They either walk away without saying a word forcing you to direct your troops like a real asshole or they get killed in 2 secs by a lerk and a skulk.
Comments
name one way one marine can take out an alien base. is ther alien disable all structure building? no. is their a way to counter grenade launchers? yes. is there a way to counter bile bomb? no.
send one gorge (a support unit by the way) and one marine to each others bases and see the kind of damage each could wreck and in how long, regardless of what weapons/upgrade the marine has. one gorge can do more damage to a base then an onos the highest level offensive alien in the game.
unbelievable people can defend it in it's current state.
There are certainly problems with aliens being able to quickly disable marines bases (via killing the powernode) without a counterpart for marines killing alien bases, but that's a separate issue from bilebomb.
Or the game where the Marines had us on the ropes but then we mass bile bombed and won anyway.
Good thing the Gorge is getting buffed next patch too... sheesh.
I hate Gorges so much. Maybe even more than Onos.
I do however, agree with the sentiment that commander alerts are awful and inconsistent. Not to mention the fact that units in range of an observatory don't show up on commander view without a scan.
Better alerts and enemy units showing up in command view when next to buildings would probably address most complaints without screwing up balance.
This is a situation that happens often, and it almost always results in a base trade which of course hurts the Marines. The trade off is Marines can get every bit of research back online with just a structure, Aliens actually need to complete their research all over again from scratch. (Oh, and Marines can recycle whereas Aliens are just plain jane screwed.)
I'm not even going to mention the fact that the commander could actually get out of the chair and use his rifle. Not going to mention that he could drop whatever gun he wants to help him out with that either. Is it really worth a beacon and a loss, or can a single commander with a shotgun kill two Gorges?
That's totally why everyone goes Gorge right at the start of the round, right? It's because Gorge is the best unit, right?
Oh wait, that never happens...
Not to mention that your suggestion saves the player 1 P.Res.
I think bile is pretty fine right now. In fact, I think the aoe damage could use a slight buff. Throw a bile 4 feet off a power node and you deal 70 damage to it. Whoopty doo. But yeah, I haven't seen gorges kill any structures solo in a looong time.
Sure is annoying as hell though, lol. I would like to see gorge cost upped to 15 and bile damage increased slightly.
By saving the player 1 pres I assume you mean it costs the player 1 pres more than the current situation if the gorge drops three hydras. And whoever does or does not go gorge at the beginning of the game isn't even relevant since we are talking about bile bomb.
Are we even reading the same thread?
The point is it would cost 20 Pres to go on a suicidal bile bomb mission during the mid-late game regardless if you drop a hydra or not.
If the alien have a bunch of harvesters then it won't be any different than now, but if the marines are doing their job and keeping the alien economy at a trickle, then it certainly could be.
A commander with a shotgun will shut down two Gorges bile bombing base. Or heaven forbid he have a grenade launcher or a flamethrower. MAC's can fix everything if you're in a time crunch, they don't take long to build and we're talking end-game pushes here right? If this is mid-game you still saved your base and shut out two Gorges that you won't see again for a minimum of 30 seconds. That's more than enough time to kill a hive, especially if they're two men short.
The flaw in your logic here is that a gorge doesn't need to suicide to bile bomb.
I also wonder if people are talking about Gorges with adrenaline or without, because Bile Bomb seems to take forever without Adrenaline. Still effective, just vastly less so than otherwise.
I'm not against the idea of different Marines alerts based on what's under attack. Acid warning would be nice, as well as a power node warning. (Although can you imagine how annoying it would be for a skulk to keep up a power node alert with their parasite? You know you'd do it too.)
Now a gorge's death has absolutely NO CONSEQUENCE. Hydras are cheap and don't make the biggest impact on the game. If the gorge dies the team will continue to get resources, structures, and upgrades via the alien commander. The gorge can simply re-gorge or stay as a skulk. No impact...
So I am trying my best not to derail this thread. Obviously we can't just remove the alien commander. So, considering there is a new all powerful alien unit (the commander) why is the gorge almost identical to NS1? Same resource cost, same powerful bile bomb (maybe stronger? not sure), LESS responsibility and consequence, faster with belly slide. It's way too effective.
I don't develop video games for a living but I think most players can agree how big of a concern this is. Either the gorge needs more structure responsibility (maybe not RTs but it needs to be a structure more vital than a hydra... i mean hydras are even less impactful than the old offense chambers and that is the ONLY structure they can drop... oh yeah clogs) OR change their cost, strength, health, survivability or BILE BOMB damage output. I don't know about this because if the gorge is already too weak to be weakened further. We don't want to make the class any weaker.
That being said, I think the strength and ability of the gorge is at a good spot. Honestly they just need more consequence to dying. Maybe making them cost 20 res wouldn't be the worst idea. UW should make a quick patch (It can't take more than a day to do) up the cost to 20 and see what changes. Just try it guys it can't hurt. Unpatch it in a couple days if it breaks the game. But it won't break it anymore than it already is broken. GL HF DD
There is something marine's do that is exactly like this, and it's called ninja phase gates. If you're a kham and don't pay attention to cysts dropping, or you haven't cysted a hive area properly, and a phase gate appears in your hive, then there's no one to blame but yourself. This is really the same situation. If you allow an onos + 2 gorges to squash your base before you can react, then you have to be more mindful, place your obs better, and actually watch your macro and don't get too much tunnel vision with your microing.
it's a competetive thing tbh
So yes, a problem, but obviously there are some in game solutions. I didn't know it was possible to nano-shield the node, never seen it done, but will definetely do that in the future. What I've been doing is putting armories around the node (which seems kind of silly). I guess you could leave marines guarding, but when you have 3 tech locations that pretty much means you need half your team on guard duty, leaving very little for attacking. So if they don't try to bilebomb, your attacking group is outnumbered 2:1, and even if they do, they are still locking up more players than they are using themselves.
Using nano-shield was a very useful tip though, I will definetely do that in the future.
Egg-lock.
A tech point, with structures, is usually worth more than a few Exo. Those Exo can retreat, take a defensive position, or continue their assault. There some games where Marines decide to sacrifice one tech point to take out two Alien Hives.
If the Marines had you "on the ropes" then it shouldn't have been so easy to counter attack. Having two Hives and having resources to set-up a counter attack likely means you weren't doing as bad as you thought. On the ropes would be 1 Hive, with maybe another one building, and 2 nodes.
Yeah.... I've had plead with Comms to Nano-shield the Power Node, Phase Gate, etc. It's really helpful for defending Resource Nodes too; just ask the Comm to shield the node, so you have time to get there. Comms need to see how powerful it is.
It can be painful playing against a Comm that shields. It requires more effort (in both planning and force) to take anything out. Everything keeps get a shield.
Solo marines never win the game for marines - at least not against alien teams that have the least bit of competence.
Jokes aside, maybe a 4th lerk (or 3rd hive alternatives/choices, is it 'allowed' to sugget that?) upgrade that nanoacid eats armour instead of health?
Why don't we hold fire until more is known?
Hitting 3-5+ buildings with bile is bullshit any day of the week, the fact you can do it from such range and with adren it takes about 15-20 seconds to run out of energy and it'll kill nearly every building in the game is even more ridiculous.
Arcs do more damage and are harder to take down than 1 gorge.
Gorges costing 15 ...maybe if hydras where free (with the current 3 cap) otherwise I see this as another expense that will hurt the aliens more often than it would save issues for marines (after all by mid - late game 15 res like 10 res is not a lot).
A lone gorge should not pose a serious threat to a base.
A gorge and a single skulk should pose a moderate threat to light structures, like observatories and infantry portals.
A gorge and 2 or more skulks should pose a serious threat to structures of high importance such as comm chairs and power nodes.
I would very much like to see Hydras being made attractive to drop during a base rush with gorges.
It's a support unit, so that makes sense.