1.) Given that most experienced players with a high level of skill (ie: the people who can recognize it) don't ever run into hackers in hundreds of hours of play, it's unlikely that you did here.
2.) Your supporting evidence makes no sense at all. Why would someone add new games to an account that was VAC banned? Let alone three people. People trash accounts that get VAC banned for obvious reasons. It's highly likely that you made this part up in order to support your initial post.
3.) VAC is game specific, with the exception of Valve source games which have a shared banlist. Mostly irrelevant because of point number 2.)
okay thanks for the clarification. So if for example, vac banned account STEAM_0:0:32734019 is in an NS2 server, he is in fact using a bypass or hack, correct?
matsoMaster of PatchesJoin Date: 2002-11-05Member: 7000Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver, Squad Five Gold, Reinforced - Shadow, NS2 Community Developer
okay thanks for the clarification. So if for example, vac banned account STEAM_0:0:32734019 is in an NS2 server, he is in fact using a bypass or hack, correct?
You can have VAC bans for one game and continue to play other games - VAC bans are not global. So you can't draw that conclusion without knowing more.
I saw vac banned players on ns2 servers too and (big suprise) they griefed the whole server with troll commander.
Yes vac is enabled but dont expect much from it.
VAC is a good system, as it acts like more of a deterrent than other clients. Specifically because if the cheat you are using is added to the data base and you are caught, not only is your account for that game banned, but also your record is smeared.
I used to look at demos for CS back in the day, as an admin for a popular UK league. I left the client in one of my folders and went to play some CS - forgetting to take it out - and my CS account was suspended for about half a year.
If spending another £20 isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is. Also, I had to create a new account on steam. Luckily CD keys for Half-Life were abundant, so installing it again was not too much of a problem.
As the devs have said, if you do find someone cheating then try and find out what it is. I can't remember who you contact, but the website/file can be added to VAC so that it recognises the hack.
Also all these claims of 'getting round VAC' are probably BS, as it is probably associated with your account and you'd probably have to hack Steam. I'm not sure how happy Valve would be about that.
I really never got why they dont ban a cheater from all vac secured games.
THAT would really hold off cheaters as they either would have to buy each game on its own account or risk their whole game collection.
There is no such thing as being worse than punkbuster. Kicking clients for running a banned program without telling them what program you have decided to blacklist is not how you treat players. A update system that refuses to work properly and requires players to manually update their install after searching an obscure error code should not be considered 'functioning'. A good anti-cheat method is important, but it shouldn't require players to spend half their time debugging it just to get into a game.
I've seen the other side of the spectrum, where cheating is rampant. CoD4 on Xbox has become a good example. But for what its worth, at least I can still get into a game. That's not always true with punkbuster.
There is no such thing as being worse than punkbuster. Kicking clients for running a banned program without telling them what program you have decided to blacklist is not how you treat players. A update system that refuses to work properly and requires players to manually update their install after searching an obscure error code should not be considered 'functioning'. A good anti-cheat method is important, but it shouldn't require players to spend half their time debugging it just to get into a game.
I've seen the other side of the spectrum, where cheating is rampant. CoD4 on Xbox has become a good example. But for what its worth, at least I can still get into a game. That's not always true with punkbuster.
I havent had any problems with punkbuster for a long time, the things you said are non-issues, please check your facts.
Also what programs are banned depends on the developer of the game, not evenbalance, so dont put it all on them, they just deliver the service.
Punkbuster is better than VAC in many ways, I am personally happy to see recent games such as Red Orchestra 2 take the better way, both VAC and PB, and additionally support for community services based on PB such as PBBans.
E.g. one advantage of PB over VAC is that it actually can catch cheaters that use unknown cheats such as private ones, through advanced functions such as screenshots of the client.
As the devs have said, if you do find someone cheating then try and find out what it is. I can't remember who you contact, but the website/file can be added to VAC so that it recognises the hack.
Also all these claims of 'getting round VAC' are probably BS, as it is probably associated with your account and you'd probably have to hack Steam. I'm not sure how happy Valve would be about that.
first you say the hacks needs to be recognised, then getting around VAC is bs? Decide. One way to get around it is to use a unique private hack, if you mean getting around a vac ban, yea thats BS. Once banned you stay banned.
I really never got why they dont ban a cheater from all vac secured games.
THAT would really hold off cheaters as they either would have to buy each game on its own account or risk their whole game collection.
They do VAC ban accounts. I know people who have had the account "VAC banned" for doing things in CS.
Punkbuster is crap. It almost ruined a few games for me. It's answer to everything is kick. Client issue, odd program, change in wind direction, kick! Add some game lag and an always on system monitoring service (that's only "on" when the games running). Luckily, there were servers without that crap enabled... for some games. I stay away from games with a PB requirement and wouldn't be playing NS2 if it used PB.
In my opinion, server admin are better than any anti-cheat. However, server admins are in short supply.
Rich_, did you see those players cheating in-game? If they didn't cheat in NS2, there isn't a problem, in my opinion. VAC can ban players from games for reasons beyond hacks, like mic spamming.
I really never got why they dont ban a cheater from all vac secured games.
THAT would really hold off cheaters as they either would have to buy each game on its own account or risk their whole game collection.
They do VAC ban accounts. I know people who have had the account "VAC banned" for doing things in CS.
Punkbuster is crap. It almost ruined a few games for me. It's answer to everything is kick. Client issue, odd program, change in wind direction, kick! Add some game lag and an always on system monitoring service (that's only "on" when the games running). Luckily, there were servers without that crap enabled... for some games. I stay away from games with a PB requirement and wouldn't be playing NS2 if it used PB.
In my opinion, server admin are better than any anti-cheat. However, server admins are in short supply.
Rich_, did you see those players cheating in-game? If they didn't cheat in NS2, there isn't a problem, in my opinion. VAC can ban players from games for reasons beyond hacks, like mic spamming.
I havent had any problems with punkbuster for a long time, the things you said are non-issues, please check your facts.
Just because you've never experienced these issues doesn't mean they don't happen. I had to fix the latter issue from my post again, for the umpteenth time to play BF3 today. I've had to do this constantly for other games, too. As for the first issue of blacklisted programs, Even Balance (Or Dice) decided AutoHotKey was a potential risk to fair gameplay. Whether or nor it is, I won't debate here, but for it to simply kick me with little clues as to where the issue came from is not good for the user's experience. It took me quite a while to figure out that the program I use for automated system maintenance and key rebinding was blacklisted. I shutter to think of the time it would take for a lesser-skilled computer user to find the problem; Some less 'advanced user' tools, such as Xpadder (for better controller support), are blacklisted as well. There were even a few reports of a videodrivercausing a kick.
Also what programs are banned depends on the developer of the game, not evenbalance, so dont put it all on them, they just deliver the service.
I was not aware of this. So I'll grant you that, at least. If NS2 started using Punkbuster, hopefully the list of blacklisted programs wouldn't be too bad.
I havent had any problems with punkbuster for a long time, the things you said are non-issues, please check your facts.
Just because you've never experienced these issues doesn't mean they don't happen. I had to fix the latter issue from my post again, for the umpteenth time to play BF3 today. I've had to do this constantly for other games, too. As for the first issue of blacklisted programs, Even Balance (Or Dice) decided AutoHotKey was a potential risk to fair gameplay. Whether or nor it is, I won't debate here, but for it to simply kick me with little clues as to where the issue came from is not good for the user's experience. It took me quite a while to figure out that the program I use for automated system maintenance and key rebinding was blacklisted. I shutter to think of the time it would take for a lesser-skilled computer user to find the problem; Some less 'advanced user' tools, such as Xpadder (for better controller support), are blacklisted as well. There were even a few reports of a videodrivercausing a kick.
Also what programs are banned depends on the developer of the game, not evenbalance, so dont put it all on them, they just deliver the service.
I was not aware of this. So I'll grant you that, at least. If NS2 started using Punkbuster, hopefully the list of blacklisted programs wouldn't be too bad.
Those video driver kicks are from 2010. Also as I said it is not evenbalance that does that work, its only a service they do for the developers. MW3 was rampant with hackers even though it used VAC, because the devs were assholes (I'd say the same of EA). If you look at recent games such as RO2, PB has been a non-issue and has only been good to keep hackers at bay.
Its true it is not perfect, but its so good at keeping hackers at bay unlike VAC since it is much more aggressive. Also RO2 provided server admins with different modes for PB, low, medium and high, depending on how aggressive protection server admins want. So I'll reiterate, its not VAC or PB that does the dirty work, its the devs themselves, if they dont care it doesnt matter if they use either one of these options.
There is no such thing as being worse than punkbuster. Kicking clients for running a banned program without telling them what program you have decided to blacklist is not how you treat players. A update system that refuses to work properly and requires players to manually update their install after searching an obscure error code should not be considered 'functioning'. A good anti-cheat method is important, but it shouldn't require players to spend half their time debugging it just to get into a game.
I've seen the other side of the spectrum, where cheating is rampant. CoD4 on Xbox has become a good example. But for what its worth, at least I can still get into a game. That's not always true with punkbuster.
so what you're saying is that a anticheat that allows any server administrator to send legit looking global bans is not a good thing? i don't believe you, mang.
edit: not to mention when they admit they've known about the exploit for years, yet just went hush hush about it instead of fixing.
well VAC is nearly like none protection - even if those hackers do advertise for their own developement on wallhacks/aimbots they do not get banned. i know that from CS GO, even if the youtube movies of those hacks are done with the same emailadress registered like the page and steam theres nothing gonna happen for at least 6 months.
if ppl get vac banned in another CS (1.6, CS:S) part they still can keep playing for other games @ vac servers.
I really never got why they dont ban a cheater from all vac secured games.
THAT would really hold off cheaters as they either would have to buy each game on its own account or risk their whole game collection.
They do VAC ban accounts. I know people who have had the account "VAC banned" for doing things in CS.
Punkbuster is crap. It almost ruined a few games for me. It's answer to everything is kick. Client issue, odd program, change in wind direction, kick! Add some game lag and an always on system monitoring service (that's only "on" when the games running). Luckily, there were servers without that crap enabled... for some games. I stay away from games with a PB requirement and wouldn't be playing NS2 if it used PB.
In my opinion, server admin are better than any anti-cheat. However, server admins are in short supply.
Rich_, did you see those players cheating in-game? If they didn't cheat in NS2, there isn't a problem, in my opinion. VAC can ban players from games for reasons beyond hacks, like mic spamming.
okay thanks for the clarification. So if for example, vac banned account STEAM_0:0:32734019 is in an NS2 server, he is in fact using a bypass or hack, correct?
You can have VAC bans for one game and continue to play other games - VAC bans are not global. So you can't draw that conclusion without knowing more.
Wait, really? I always thought a VAC ban amounted to losing access to your entire Steam account these days. I'm not sure if I'm troubled or comforted by this new information.
Yeah, it's only a permanent ban from the game that you hacked in, and only from VAC protected servers. Their steam profile will display "VAC Bans on record" however.
i don't know about you guys, but I have stopped playing every game I own that has punkbuster because I just can't be bothered with it.
Oh, can't use the steam overlay/xfire (apparently this has been fixed, but my point is still there) and you have to manually update the software every time there's a patch? boy, that sounds like more fun than actually playing the game itself!
the truth of it is VAC is just fine. you literally will not find a anticheat that will catch all hacks, or even half of them. They're going to detect the popular ones... eventually. VAC actually sent out a huge ban wave just last month or so; two of the most common hacks got detected for 1.6/CS:S/TF2/CS:GO/DoD:S/and others i'm sure. I know that at least one of them is still offline! the difference here is one works seamlessly in every single supported game, and the other is slightly obtrusive and requires manual input.
PB/VAC can do their best to block as many hacks as possible, but the problem is that there is a million+ ways to hide them. when they fix one method, another pops up. if it comes down to it the hack developer can sacrifice features for security by going deeper into "computer security levels" (no idea how else to dumb it down, sounds retarded) that commercial anticheats currently don't and likely won't. for more information on that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(computer_security)
I've had all kinds of trouble with punkbuster too. Particularly trying to play Crysis Multiplayer back when it was new. Kicked me from games at random times for no apparent reason. I haven't played a punkbuster game online since them.
VAC on the other hand has never once gotten in my way, not even a little bit. Not in any game. Not ever. And I play VAC-protected games all the time.
VAC is a horrible, delayed wave ban deterrent of a program that amounts to fuck all else except an installed folder scan and known hacks services/process check list.
You could end up using a 'known' hack for weeks/months before it sends a ban wave out and it will only ban if you use the hack from then onwards, blizzard adopted the same sort of system to similar results, not a single VAC/blizzard game has spent longer than a few days before a working public hack is out since the dawn of time.
VAC is a horrible, delayed wave ban deterrent of a program that amounts to fuck all else except an installed folder scan and known hacks services/process check list.
You could end up using a 'known' hack for weeks/months before it sends a ban wave out and it will only ban if you use the hack from then onwards, blizzard adopted the same sort of system to similar results, not a single VAC/blizzard game has spent longer than a few days before a working public hack is out since the dawn of time.
I think it depends on the game and the stakes honestly.
VAC is horrible for protecting TF2 pubs from random griefing, because delayed bans don't have any effect on an F2P game that lets you play anywhere from day 1. In general, you can translate this to VAC style banning being bad for F2P games in particular.
Exception to the above: VAC style banning would be awesome for a game with LoL's setup. Any game in where you have to invest serious time to unlock barriers is a game in where delayed bans are highly effective in filtering out cheating.
VAC is really good for protecting the integrity of competitive play/ensuring your named players are legitimate. While it can't prevent low level pub griefing, it can definitely blow up someone's competitive credentials in the blink of an eye. The threat of which is enough to make VAC a very effective competition anti-cheat.
Comments
1.) Given that most experienced players with a high level of skill (ie: the people who can recognize it) don't ever run into hackers in hundreds of hours of play, it's unlikely that you did here.
2.) Your supporting evidence makes no sense at all. Why would someone add new games to an account that was VAC banned? Let alone three people. People trash accounts that get VAC banned for obvious reasons. It's highly likely that you made this part up in order to support your initial post.
3.) VAC is game specific, with the exception of Valve source games which have a shared banlist. Mostly irrelevant because of point number 2.)
4.) VAC supports NS2
Next time when you start your own server, check the console and there will be a line that says "VAC Secure".
VAC is a very used anti-cheat system. Because of it's popularity, there are many hacks that can bypass it.
You can have VAC bans for one game and continue to play other games - VAC bans are not global. So you can't draw that conclusion without knowing more.
Yes vac is enabled but dont expect much from it.
sadly i have to agree
I used to look at demos for CS back in the day, as an admin for a popular UK league. I left the client in one of my folders and went to play some CS - forgetting to take it out - and my CS account was suspended for about half a year.
If spending another £20 isn't a deterrent, I don't know what is. Also, I had to create a new account on steam. Luckily CD keys for Half-Life were abundant, so installing it again was not too much of a problem.
As the devs have said, if you do find someone cheating then try and find out what it is. I can't remember who you contact, but the website/file can be added to VAC so that it recognises the hack.
Also all these claims of 'getting round VAC' are probably BS, as it is probably associated with your account and you'd probably have to hack Steam. I'm not sure how happy Valve would be about that.
THAT would really hold off cheaters as they either would have to buy each game on its own account or risk their whole game collection.
There is no such thing as being worse than punkbuster. Kicking clients for running a banned program without telling them what program you have decided to blacklist is not how you treat players. A update system that refuses to work properly and requires players to manually update their install after searching an obscure error code should not be considered 'functioning'. A good anti-cheat method is important, but it shouldn't require players to spend half their time debugging it just to get into a game.
I've seen the other side of the spectrum, where cheating is rampant. CoD4 on Xbox has become a good example. But for what its worth, at least I can still get into a game. That's not always true with punkbuster.
Also what programs are banned depends on the developer of the game, not evenbalance, so dont put it all on them, they just deliver the service.
Punkbuster is better than VAC in many ways, I am personally happy to see recent games such as Red Orchestra 2 take the better way, both VAC and PB, and additionally support for community services based on PB such as PBBans.
E.g. one advantage of PB over VAC is that it actually can catch cheaters that use unknown cheats such as private ones, through advanced functions such as screenshots of the client.
first you say the hacks needs to be recognised, then getting around VAC is bs? Decide. One way to get around it is to use a unique private hack, if you mean getting around a vac ban, yea thats BS. Once banned you stay banned.
They do VAC ban accounts. I know people who have had the account "VAC banned" for doing things in CS.
Punkbuster is crap. It almost ruined a few games for me. It's answer to everything is kick. Client issue, odd program, change in wind direction, kick! Add some game lag and an always on system monitoring service (that's only "on" when the games running). Luckily, there were servers without that crap enabled... for some games. I stay away from games with a PB requirement and wouldn't be playing NS2 if it used PB.
In my opinion, server admin are better than any anti-cheat. However, server admins are in short supply.
Rich_, did you see those players cheating in-game? If they didn't cheat in NS2, there isn't a problem, in my opinion. VAC can ban players from games for reasons beyond hacks, like mic spamming.
Oh wow, so much misinformation in one post :-O
I was not aware of this. So I'll grant you that, at least. If NS2 started using Punkbuster, hopefully the list of blacklisted programs wouldn't be too bad.
Those video driver kicks are from 2010. Also as I said it is not evenbalance that does that work, its only a service they do for the developers. MW3 was rampant with hackers even though it used VAC, because the devs were assholes (I'd say the same of EA). If you look at recent games such as RO2, PB has been a non-issue and has only been good to keep hackers at bay.
Its true it is not perfect, but its so good at keeping hackers at bay unlike VAC since it is much more aggressive. Also RO2 provided server admins with different modes for PB, low, medium and high, depending on how aggressive protection server admins want. So I'll reiterate, its not VAC or PB that does the dirty work, its the devs themselves, if they dont care it doesnt matter if they use either one of these options.
http://www.artificialaiming.net/forum/general-discussions/18646-unerring-punkbuster-season-2-we-did-lulz.html
so what you're saying is that a anticheat that allows any server administrator to send legit looking global bans is not a good thing? i don't believe you, mang.
edit: not to mention when they admit they've known about the exploit for years, yet just went hush hush about it instead of fixing.
if ppl get vac banned in another CS (1.6, CS:S) part they still can keep playing for other games @ vac servers.
Prove it. I experienced it.
Wait, really? I always thought a VAC ban amounted to losing access to your entire Steam account these days. I'm not sure if I'm troubled or comforted by this new information.
Oh, can't use the steam overlay/xfire (apparently this has been fixed, but my point is still there) and you have to manually update the software every time there's a patch? boy, that sounds like more fun than actually playing the game itself!
the truth of it is VAC is just fine. you literally will not find a anticheat that will catch all hacks, or even half of them. They're going to detect the popular ones... eventually. VAC actually sent out a huge ban wave just last month or so; two of the most common hacks got detected for 1.6/CS:S/TF2/CS:GO/DoD:S/and others i'm sure. I know that at least one of them is still offline! the difference here is one works seamlessly in every single supported game, and the other is slightly obtrusive and requires manual input.
PB/VAC can do their best to block as many hacks as possible, but the problem is that there is a million+ ways to hide them. when they fix one method, another pops up. if it comes down to it the hack developer can sacrifice features for security by going deeper into "computer security levels" (no idea how else to dumb it down, sounds retarded) that commercial anticheats currently don't and likely won't. for more information on that, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_(computer_security)
edit: christ, that was like 5 edits.
VAC on the other hand has never once gotten in my way, not even a little bit. Not in any game. Not ever. And I play VAC-protected games all the time.
You could end up using a 'known' hack for weeks/months before it sends a ban wave out and it will only ban if you use the hack from then onwards, blizzard adopted the same sort of system to similar results, not a single VAC/blizzard game has spent longer than a few days before a working public hack is out since the dawn of time.
I think it depends on the game and the stakes honestly.
VAC is horrible for protecting TF2 pubs from random griefing, because delayed bans don't have any effect on an F2P game that lets you play anywhere from day 1. In general, you can translate this to VAC style banning being bad for F2P games in particular.
Exception to the above: VAC style banning would be awesome for a game with LoL's setup. Any game in where you have to invest serious time to unlock barriers is a game in where delayed bans are highly effective in filtering out cheating.
VAC is really good for protecting the integrity of competitive play/ensuring your named players are legitimate. While it can't prevent low level pub griefing, it can definitely blow up someone's competitive credentials in the blink of an eye. The threat of which is enough to make VAC a very effective competition anti-cheat.