Let's not forget that no weapon is a replacement. Even the shottie is not 'better' than an LMG in every case.
I'm not sure what experience you have, but from my experience the average marine using a shotgun is signficantly deadlier and can kill skulks much easier.
I don't disagree one bit, but this is how it is NOW. Shotties are nasty against skulks. However, as it stands now you can recycle that shottie over and over again. In my suggestion only the person who buys the unlock (or has one dropped by the comm) can get the shotgun. A person with the unlock doesn't drop the weapon on death. This means fewer shotties on the field unless a person spends the res to unlock it - and if they do then that means they can't spend res on other unlocks.
I personally like my idea of adding in new disposable comm reserached items for the marines to spend res on instead to complement their unlocks, as it adds more variety of play than just making the armor/weapon upgrades cost p.res.
I guess it depends on the disposables.
I think unlocks could work when you consider we have balance issues that make marines the weaker team right now. So while this might be a minor buff for marines, I don't think it would tip the scales the other way. The weapons are still the same, and it still costs res to research and buy them, the only difference is that they buy them once and they don't drop on death.
* Do people agree with my view?
* If yes, what to do about this & motivate devs to do stuff about it.
*snipped the rest*
I can't agree with your view. The player is the x-factor.
The Marines can sneak, move across the map quickly (very quickly if they drop their pistol and LMG), kill rts & structures quickly (shoot them), heal (weld), build, attack (quite effectively from range), destroy (in groups) from start to finish. It depends on the player(s).
Shotgun, Flamethrower are not a support weapons, in my opinion. They are quite effective in the right hands. In the wrong hands, they are a waste, just like higher lifeforms for the Aliens.
As a player, if you are using the stock load-out every respawn, then something might be wrong. It's like staying a skulk the entire game, when there are resources available to evolve. Marines who don't buy 5Res Welders, 10Res Jetpacks, or 15Res Mines aren't taking advantage of the available tools.
Also, the Dev's are adding new content, for both sides. It should be out soon.
Even though I don't agree, new content brainstorming sessions are cool.
The shotgun is by the most part a direct upgrade from the LMG as it is crucial to combat aliens in late game when they get carapace/lerks/fades and onos as they can 1-2 shot most lifeforms other than onos. The ultimate killing machine other then a duel exo is a jetpack marine with shotgun (although much more flexible then an exo as they can use phase gates and build/weld). But i digress, Marine is still quite mundane in playstyle compared to aliens, as they just shoot/build/weld when necessary in more or less the same way throughout the whole game. Would be happy if marines got more support options like the aliens have with the gorges/lerk umbra/skulk parasite/fade vortex/onos stomp. More support based weapons/mechs/private buildable structures just to change it up when you are bored.
I enjoy the gorge as they are not very strong in direct attack but are very valuable in support/defensive role for alien team with all their buildables and blinding spit/bile bomb (soon to be babblers and gorge tunnels). If marines could get a similar fun but unique options, they would be more popular in pub level imo.
Your reply makes it clear, so I'll contribute. Add more goodies, OP.
For support:
Mobile Wall (buy at armory) - ~6x3ft (or ~2x1 meter) wall, replaces the pistol (taking a pistol slot), used to fortify a location. It's installed by the player, no (or minimal) build time; so it can be used to block a Power Node, ARC's, etc.
The fun, when playing the marines, is the feel of being a badass and die like Hudson ( Eat this motherbucker! You want some of this ARGGGggg... ). Moments, when you see a giant wave of incoming skulks, puts your adrenaline to max. Especially, when power goes down, you just hear people scream in pain in the darkness ( They cut the power man! How they cut the power? They are just animals man! ) and then you turn your flash to see that all your comrades are brutally killed and every motherbucking alien wants to take a piece of you. Those are just samples of the fun moments, when playing marines.
If you play with friends, you can roleplay, which is so damn awesome, and it lifts up the fun level by a lot. And not to mention, the entire game, despite wining or losing, feels better.
Oh, wait. You were talking game balance... never mind then
I disagree delta, whenever I see the power go off I curse the devs inablity to balance marines effectively and giving the Aliens a huge IWIN button to screw marines over yet again. That is NOT my definition of fun. I really like savants idea of unlocking a "tech tree". I see much potential in this even if it requires a lot of rebalancing of current game mechanics. Certainly much better than our current setup.
Oh, how cool is that! So this is the Armory thing? I can buy stuff from there? Let's look:
Ah, yeah, I see: Shotguns, Mines, Welders, Grenade Launchers and Flamethrowers! Now this is something, isn't it! But wait, you tell me, if I die I will lose the weapon and the res? Mmh, well. Looks like a nice trade-off, it's a teamgame, so I should support my fellas in battle, right!
What, there's more? The commander researches armor and weapon upgrades as well without my direct influence? Ah I see. He just has to click the button when it's time. Well. Ok then. So you need to click that thing anyways – no choice in that.
So you tell me, all of my choices are narrowed in buying out my com's specific technologic strategy that is bound to one way anyways? You tell me all that could be done is not researching a specific weapon or upgrade? Dont talk silly!
Now this sounds it should be adressed! Calling myself a faithful servent of humanity, spending all my life at the arse of the universe, shooting space stuff and aliums where all my creativity spawns from the boreness outside of battle.
I think I deserve a little toying with my standart marine rifle. Keep the rest, let the comm do his job, let him research whatever he wants (and not). Let the aliens try to kill our species, BUT DONT YOU TAKE MY RIGHT TO PERSONALIZE MY PLAYSTYLE, YOU HEAR ME!
Personally I find challenging learning curves fun. When I first started, aliens were fun to win with but got boring. Learning how to win on marines became a lot more rewarding. The next step is learning how to play aliens against good marines.
As for the tech tree, I'm not liking it. It is reminiscent of hyper mutation which i never experienced. But from what I read, it's basically an avalanching explosion of life forms.
This tech tree idea is essentially combat mode. Avalanching is quite apparent here. Waves of permanent shotguns and then jet packs. That's all you really need for marines. There's a cap on exos but if there wasn't just imagine the moment everyone could unlock these.
I think the amount of different kinds of stuff in the game is fine as it is now.
A few additions would be fine, too - things like the upcoming gorge tunnels and babblers, and like the perpetually-demanded door welding.
I wouldn't want the devs to go crazy, though. More isn't always better, and we're not that far from the point where more would definitely be worse. We don't need the degree of variety that you'd find in, say, WoW or Dota or Dwarf Fortress. For all its complexity, NS2 still has a kind of simplicity bordering on the elegant. I'd hate to lose that.
After all, Chess isn't hurting as a game even though it only has six character classes and a flat tech tree.
AurOn2COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS!AustraliaJoin Date: 2012-01-13Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
WOAH WOAH WOAH
My shotgun is a support weapon now?
whaaaaaa. i can get 20-0 with that thing, i must be very effectively supporting people killing all those fades and stuff.
/endtroll.
anyway, marines are SUPER FUN, and is much more fun to command as, because you cna do stuff like.. like.. dropping ninja phasegates (hue hue) When your team is doing badly, and the aliens are being negligent, send a mac train behind enemy lines and find locations you can sentry up (HUE HUE), place observatories EVERYWHUR. (heh)
on the other hand.. marines themselves.. hrm. i'll have to try them some time.
Comments
Oh wait, isn't that just my opinion? What's the point of me saying this?
Sure they are fun. But what if they become more fun? *mind blown*
I guess it depends on the disposables.
I think unlocks could work when you consider we have balance issues that make marines the weaker team right now. So while this might be a minor buff for marines, I don't think it would tip the scales the other way. The weapons are still the same, and it still costs res to research and buy them, the only difference is that they buy them once and they don't drop on death.
Your reply makes it clear, so I'll contribute. Add more goodies, OP.
For support:
Mobile Wall (buy at armory) - ~6x3ft (or ~2x1 meter) wall, replaces the pistol (taking a pistol slot), used to fortify a location. It's installed by the player, no (or minimal) build time; so it can be used to block a Power Node, ARC's, etc.
If you play with friends, you can roleplay, which is so damn awesome, and it lifts up the fun level by a lot. And not to mention, the entire game, despite wining or losing, feels better.
Oh, wait. You were talking game balance... never mind then
Ah, yeah, I see: Shotguns, Mines, Welders, Grenade Launchers and Flamethrowers! Now this is something, isn't it! But wait, you tell me, if I die I will lose the weapon and the res? Mmh, well. Looks like a nice trade-off, it's a teamgame, so I should support my fellas in battle, right!
What, there's more? The commander researches armor and weapon upgrades as well without my direct influence? Ah I see. He just has to click the button when it's time. Well. Ok then. So you need to click that thing anyways – no choice in that.
So you tell me, all of my choices are narrowed in buying out my com's specific technologic strategy that is bound to one way anyways? You tell me all that could be done is not researching a specific weapon or upgrade? Dont talk silly!
Now this sounds it should be adressed! Calling myself a faithful servent of humanity, spending all my life at the arse of the universe, shooting space stuff and aliums where all my creativity spawns from the boreness outside of battle.
I think I deserve a little toying with my standart marine rifle. Keep the rest, let the comm do his job, let him research whatever he wants (and not). Let the aliens try to kill our species, BUT DONT YOU TAKE MY RIGHT TO PERSONALIZE MY PLAYSTYLE, YOU HEAR ME!
As for the tech tree, I'm not liking it. It is reminiscent of hyper mutation which i never experienced. But from what I read, it's basically an avalanching explosion of life forms.
This tech tree idea is essentially combat mode. Avalanching is quite apparent here. Waves of permanent shotguns and then jet packs. That's all you really need for marines. There's a cap on exos but if there wasn't just imagine the moment everyone could unlock these.
A few additions would be fine, too - things like the upcoming gorge tunnels and babblers, and like the perpetually-demanded door welding.
I wouldn't want the devs to go crazy, though. More isn't always better, and we're not that far from the point where more would definitely be worse. We don't need the degree of variety that you'd find in, say, WoW or Dota or Dwarf Fortress. For all its complexity, NS2 still has a kind of simplicity bordering on the elegant. I'd hate to lose that.
After all, Chess isn't hurting as a game even though it only has six character classes and a flat tech tree.
But yes. This topic got the ball rolling.
Like someone said.. marines are fun now, but they could be MORE fun.
Savant has a interesting idea, but I imagine it would be hard to balance, as marines have no other pres sink then weapons.
Lets keep the brainstorms coming.
My shotgun is a support weapon now?
whaaaaaa. i can get 20-0 with that thing, i must be very effectively supporting people killing all those fades and stuff.
/endtroll.
anyway, marines are SUPER FUN, and is much more fun to command as, because you cna do stuff like.. like.. dropping ninja phasegates (hue hue) When your team is doing badly, and the aliens are being negligent, send a mac train behind enemy lines and find locations you can sentry up (HUE HUE), place observatories EVERYWHUR. (heh)
on the other hand.. marines themselves.. hrm. i'll have to try them some time.