Assuming you have an alien start in fabrication, good luck getting a second hive!
Monorail and Hydroanalysis are literally -right- next to the marine start. If you can somehow maneuver your way to a second hive, guess what- All three of these hives are extremely easily arccable.
The map is not symmetrical just like the rest of the game, and you knew that when you got it. what do you expect a perfect geometric shape of extractors with the exact same distances between each other aligned down to the precise unit for optimal balancing? drawing a horisontal line has nothing to do with anything, the marines can also spawn in fabrication and then what? aliens have monorail and hydroanalysis litterally right next to the start just like you said? the map might aswell have 8 rts at half the map an 2 rts on the other, it will still be balanced if the spawn can go either way its not like only one team always get the "crappy" spawn in descent and the best spawn goes to marines similair to veil. (not saying they got best spawn just that it is fixed)
The map is a work of art and far better looking than tripple-A gaming title maps like call of duty in my opinion. It has originality and purpose for every room. Some places are easyer to hold down while others easyer to take down which makes the outcome of every game different. if you really want 100% similairity and mirrored or equal map i suggest you make your own to play on i mean you already have the tools and assets for it so why wait or complain? just do it already.
Saying that a map is balanced because a game-deciding spawn can go either way is not cool. Sure it's fair, but we could just as well flip a coin to see the winner, would that make an enjoyable game?
Not saying descent has these problems, but as a general guideline you can't force balance with such mechanics.
The map is relatively symmetrical in run times. Straight-line distance (ie cutting the map in half and counting res nodes, or drawing a line from drone bay -> hydro or monorail) are completely meaningless on their own.
well if you cut the map as the creator did you will find it balanced, do it diagonally instead and count the nodes. the key to this map is to work your way out and not waste any time, the faster your taking map control the better. You might say monorail or hydro is wast of time or bad, but the best spawn i ever got was when marines got mono and aliens cross spawn in launch control or what its called on the opposite side of the map. usually i hate this spawn but we killed both plaza and gravity by pushing them hard and taking fabrication / drone bay. They sadly conceded at the exact 10 minute mark becouse e had ALL the extractors on the map even grav and plaza before the end and they got launch starting harvester.
I don't quite see the problem with bringing in a potentially unbalanced map to the competitive scene.
As EVERY map is played twice, with both teams playing on each side, then nobody is at a disadvantage. All you need is to agree tie-breakers are only played on SVT in cup matches, and there's no problem.
ALL sports and games, especially Tennis, Darts, Chess, etc. suffer the same sort of "imbalance" - if you throw first / get serve / move first / etc. then you have a massive advantage - the whole point of a game is to break your opponents advantage.
That is what should happen in NS2, and people need to realise this. "Marines are advantageous on X map" - a good team will break the constant Marine victories and get an Alien win. "Marines suffer if they spawn in Y and the Aliens spawn in Z" - a good team will overcome the bad position and win anyway. That's exciting to watch.
I bought the game for $30 or $35 back in july of 2011. I'm an entitled child because I think that I have the right to criticize something I paid for? Gorgeous was not a free update. If they aren't charging for it now, they already charged you for it before. It barely has enough content in it to even be considered an expansion pack.. it's one map, one new weapon, and 2 utility items for the gorge
I paid £30 for Sniper Elite V2. I then paid £7 a time for downloadable content, of which each contained ONE map, ONE new weapon, and TWO sidearms. Equally comparable to the Gorgeous update, which was free.
Call of Duty players pay in excess of £12 for each downloadable content pack, of which (until BO2) contained just 5 new maps a time. None of which were thought out, loved, as detailed, as fun or anywhere encroaching on the size of a Natural Selection 2 map. That game is primarily played 6v6/8v8 as well.
If you buy a game on the day of launch, or any day for that matter, you are paying the game AS IS on that day. If the developers then have no desire to update the game, they don't have to. They'd be sensible to, but there was no long-standing contract between you and them there enforcing them to.
I paid over £5 more than the current full price for the game when it was in Beta stage. There were no Exos. The maps were wildly more imbalanced. The Gorgeous update wasn't even on the horizon. The Commander interface was hella glitchy. But I didn't EXPECT these things to be implemented. I would have liked them to have been. And it was great when they were. But they could have released NS2 the very next day exactly the same as it was when I played the Beta, and never touched it again, and I not only wouldn't have wanted to say anything, but I COULDN'T have said anything. I paid for a product. They gave me that product. End of.
I don't quite see the problem with bringing in a potentially unbalanced map to the competitive scene.
As EVERY map is played twice, with both teams playing on each side, then nobody is at a disadvantage. All you need is to agree tie-breakers are only played on SVT in cup matches, and there's no problem --
There is. You can draw with easy opponent because of imbalanced map (which you should have won) while your rival beats same team in balanced map. That's like saying it doesn't matter if maps are balanced or not.
Comments
The map is not symmetrical just like the rest of the game, and you knew that when you got it. what do you expect a perfect geometric shape of extractors with the exact same distances between each other aligned down to the precise unit for optimal balancing? drawing a horisontal line has nothing to do with anything, the marines can also spawn in fabrication and then what? aliens have monorail and hydroanalysis litterally right next to the start just like you said? the map might aswell have 8 rts at half the map an 2 rts on the other, it will still be balanced if the spawn can go either way its not like only one team always get the "crappy" spawn in descent and the best spawn goes to marines similair to veil. (not saying they got best spawn just that it is fixed)
The map is a work of art and far better looking than tripple-A gaming title maps like call of duty in my opinion. It has originality and purpose for every room. Some places are easyer to hold down while others easyer to take down which makes the outcome of every game different. if you really want 100% similairity and mirrored or equal map i suggest you make your own to play on i mean you already have the tools and assets for it so why wait or complain? just do it already.
Saying that a map is balanced because a game-deciding spawn can go either way is not cool. Sure it's fair, but we could just as well flip a coin to see the winner, would that make an enjoyable game?
Not saying descent has these problems, but as a general guideline you can't force balance with such mechanics.
As EVERY map is played twice, with both teams playing on each side, then nobody is at a disadvantage. All you need is to agree tie-breakers are only played on SVT in cup matches, and there's no problem.
ALL sports and games, especially Tennis, Darts, Chess, etc. suffer the same sort of "imbalance" - if you throw first / get serve / move first / etc. then you have a massive advantage - the whole point of a game is to break your opponents advantage.
That is what should happen in NS2, and people need to realise this. "Marines are advantageous on X map" - a good team will break the constant Marine victories and get an Alien win. "Marines suffer if they spawn in Y and the Aliens spawn in Z" - a good team will overcome the bad position and win anyway. That's exciting to watch.
I paid £30 for Sniper Elite V2. I then paid £7 a time for downloadable content, of which each contained ONE map, ONE new weapon, and TWO sidearms. Equally comparable to the Gorgeous update, which was free.
Call of Duty players pay in excess of £12 for each downloadable content pack, of which (until BO2) contained just 5 new maps a time. None of which were thought out, loved, as detailed, as fun or anywhere encroaching on the size of a Natural Selection 2 map. That game is primarily played 6v6/8v8 as well.
If you buy a game on the day of launch, or any day for that matter, you are paying the game AS IS on that day. If the developers then have no desire to update the game, they don't have to. They'd be sensible to, but there was no long-standing contract between you and them there enforcing them to.
I paid over £5 more than the current full price for the game when it was in Beta stage. There were no Exos. The maps were wildly more imbalanced. The Gorgeous update wasn't even on the horizon. The Commander interface was hella glitchy. But I didn't EXPECT these things to be implemented. I would have liked them to have been. And it was great when they were. But they could have released NS2 the very next day exactly the same as it was when I played the Beta, and never touched it again, and I not only wouldn't have wanted to say anything, but I COULDN'T have said anything. I paid for a product. They gave me that product. End of.
There is. You can draw with easy opponent because of imbalanced map (which you should have won) while your rival beats same team in balanced map. That's like saying it doesn't matter if maps are balanced or not.