FrozenNew York, NYJoin Date: 2010-07-02Member: 72228Members, Constellation
So for the beta test. Can we try some marine movement speed increases (with skulk speed increase I would say), utter removal of sprint, and addition of a walk key with higher movement speed than crouch?
If I jump from the Veil Skylights RT point towards the wall and hit the floor just before I get to the wall (facing up), I get about 1 second of absolutely no vertical movement upwards as a Skulk. Is this intended?
If I jump from the Veil Skylights RT point towards the wall and hit the floor just before I get to the wall (facing up), I get about 1 second of absolutely no vertical movement upwards as a Skulk. Is this intended?
OK this sounds just like the issue I reported a few days ago where I couldn't wallclimb, only reproducible and thus much more useful. Please look into this as well as issues with players getting stuck together!
On the "stuff I would really like to just try out" front: remove clipping between aliens entirely because it sucks ass getting your bunnyhopping messed up by someone wandering around slowly in front of you :X
So for the beta test. Can we try some marine movement speed increases (with skulk speed increase I would say), utter removal of sprint, and addition of a walk key with higher movement speed than crouch?
imo the last thing marines need is a movement speed increase, they can already quite easily outmaneuver skulks as it is.
If skulks get a movement/acceleration increase to compensate, then yeah sure try it out.
I'd like to get rid of sprint. One of the alien's advantages (I thought at least) was supposed to be their superior mobility. This doesn't exist when marines can perma-sprint (or sprint at all imho).
after the forum doesnt accept my quotes/idea/feedback with a readable format, i put everything in this .pdf-file. Thanks to everybody, who take notice and read it
Serious question why do some people hate the idea of the game they're playing changing? I generally give up on a game that doesn't have a serious balance and/or content patch every 4-6 months (unless it's a very very mature game with fairly impeccable balance already) because the same old stale strategies are always optimal and you're just playing the game the same way you always did.
My serious reply is that i dont view these as changes. Its a whole new game. The overwhelming majority of skills mastered playing as alien have been invalidated, for no reason. Take the fade changes, their effectiveness is pretty similar, so says everyone in support of BT. So, remind me, what balance purposes did pulling the rug out from under everyone who had previously played fade serve? Just to fuck with people? Dont get me wrong, theres a lot of positive changes. But they are lumped in with the horrid.
My condolences to the people who have apparently already mastered the replacement mechanics within their first 17 seconds of BT, as you all no longer have any reason to continue to play now that you've worked your way to the top. I expect to see you all in the next NSL.
Post useful content or feedback, not flame bait - or don't post at all.
That was definitely a bad post, however i was shocked UWE is going to continue with the balance mod after the backlash. It was a good idea, for testing INDIVIDUAL changes, but it ended up taking over the entire game. Additionally. i remember reading a dev post saying something about "never doing this again" or at least making it less of a pain for the players.
Relocations in NS1 were a big gamble - it's a major time/money investment in the early game, with the possibility of failing completely if the aliens fend it off. In NS2 there's also the additional drawback of leaving all the tech points open as viable hive locations.
oldassgamersJoin Date: 2011-02-02Member: 80033Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2013
I'm really excited about the new beta change. When adding a sub-machine gun and make the rifle to stronger weaponry. Like jekt mentioned to break the balance of having shotgun groups and also offer a middle ground between LMG and exocuit minigun.
I would also like to point out on my point of view that having stronger rifle in 6v6 compatitive play is much better because having to face one onos vs 4 marines it's very hard to win. Can't remember, was it 12 clips to take down one onos? Anyways, it is hard.
Keep up the good work sewlek and thanks to all the others who are testing the balance everyday.
There should be good reasons to have CCs on tech points, and there should be good reasons to place them elsewhere. The choice of whether to place on a tech point or elsewhere should be important, consequential, and difficult.
It should not be the case that they can just go anywhere with tech points being just another anywhere that they can go.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Techpoints could just be a location where a hive could go. Replace the techpoint metal thing with some sort of indication that an alien hive could be positioned and grown there. Could even open up hives being positioned differently like the hive high up in the room like that ns_bast
The problem is none of the current official maps are balanced for relocating. It would not be such a big deal if the maps could be changed on a fly, but that is not the case.
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
edited June 2013
Relocation balances its self really. It's such a risky move and can delay everything by 2 minutes while aliens expand freely and can just be on the offense while marines get back on their feet.
Relocations happen in live every now and then. Relocations to cross on summit, even more common is relocation to ET if shipping to deny half of the RTs at the top of tram.
Tbh I don't think we would see it much more often if the CCs weren't tied to tech points. Just gives you some more freedom to choose a location if you do want to do it.
IronHorseDeveloper, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributorJoin Date: 2010-05-08Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
Besides fond memories of mowing down everything in my path with the HMG, can someone educate me on why its needed?
Haven't the exos been modified to sort of fill that role currently? I feel like they are finally in a somewhat good place, and an HMG would just be picked over exos, i would assume?
I guess, what role is it supposed to fill?
Sprint allows marines to run to the action quicker, but be slow once they get there, much like bunnyhopping. Its not much, but giving players something to do during the downtime of running to the action make the game more engaging, and allowing players to get to the action faster is generally a good thing. Why shouldnt marines have sprint?
Why do we want to create another middleground between shotguns and exos? That is just going to make exo suits even less viable, and will widen the jump from pubs to playing and spectating competitive. If theres really a problem, some work should be put into making exos viable, even if its just railgun exos.
Plus, creating another weapon so similar to the lmg is boring. Its like if the developers made a stronger, faster skulk, instead of creating the fade.
How do deployable sentries work? I never played last stand.
I'd like to get rid of sprint. One of the alien's advantages (I thought at least) was supposed to be their superior mobility. This doesn't exist when marines can perma-sprint (or sprint at all imho).
Yes please. It's annoying to hold shift all the time. It serves no real purpose, it's just a chore.
Besides fond memories of mowing down everything in my path with the HMG, can someone educate me on why its needed?
Haven't the exos been modified to sort of fill that role currently? I feel like they are finally in a somewhat good place, and an HMG would just be picked over exos, i would assume?
I guess, what role is it supposed to fill?
If we harken back to NS1 the HMG filled the role of killing higher lifeforms later in the game (it did crappy damage to structures). As it is now, the Minigun Exo fills that role but it is a limited tech path. The HMG was available to both the HA and a standard marine. In NS2 the shotgun fills that role now, but it is available so early in the game it has caused some weird issues. The shotgun has needed to have enough stopping power to kill fades and onos as the match progresses. Yet early on with a quick research it is capable of scorching the earth.
That said, if this ends up going in we shouldn't leave the shotgun as it is. It should be toned down ever so slightly and its damage type changed again so it has a more defined role compared to this new "hmg". I'll also say again, I'd prefer something more unique than a NS1 hmg clone to fill that role. Nailgun, some sort of plasma cannon etc. As others have said a better lmg is kinda boring. The hmg + jp combo should also be cost prohibitive so that it is attainable but exos are still an attractive choice.
But doesn't a limited tech path exactly what reduces the occurrence of improper role timings, i.e. what the shotgun creates?
Meaning, if you make a weapon for late game lifeforms, yet it's only 15 pres, instead of proto lab, 40/60 pres, and largely impacted by arms lab upgrades like an exo... Doesn't that mean it will scorch the earth just like the shotgun??
Idk.. Maybe if the hmg were only purchase-able as an exo to replace the useless first, it would make sense...
Otherwise I just foresee everyone buying a cheap late game lifeform killer and a jet pack, laughing at anyone who just dropped 60 pres on something that has much larger downsides?
Can we test reverting the pointless fade changes to see what effect that has on balance kthnx
Seriously though, you may not want to "regress" changes, but i'd like to remind you that portions of this patch were in fact regressions to NS1 mechanics. Just something to consider.
But doesn't a limited tech path exactly what reduces the occurrence of improper role timings, i.e. what the shotgun creates?
Meaning, if you make a weapon for late game lifeforms, yet it's only 15 pres, instead of proto lab, 40/60 pres, and largely impacted by arms lab upgrades like an exo... Doesn't that mean it will scorch the earth just like the shotgun??
Idk.. Maybe if the hmg were only purchase-able as an exo to replace the useless first, it would make sense...
Otherwise I just foresee everyone buying a cheap late game lifeform killer and a jet pack, laughing at anyone who just dropped 60 pres on something that has much larger downsides?
Well from what it seems in the changes in the mod, Sewlek is keeping the shotgun as the late game lifeform killer but isn't gating it. So both the rifle and shotgun are available for research right away which I think is problematic if this is going to be balanced properly. The HMG was gated so you had to sink a fair amount of res before it was on the field which kept it to its place in the later part of the match unless you did some crazy all in strat to force it sooner.
So my suggestion is to gate one of those weapons to advanced armory separate from the GL/FT research, and balance the weapon that remains on the base armory as a midgame choice. PRes costs also need to be adjusted accordingly for the timing they will occur and also to prevent JP + "hmg" being the 100% go to all the time. Exos still need to be a viable choice.
Comments
OK this sounds just like the issue I reported a few days ago where I couldn't wallclimb, only reproducible and thus much more useful. Please look into this as well as issues with players getting stuck together!
On the "stuff I would really like to just try out" front: remove clipping between aliens entirely because it sucks ass getting your bunnyhopping messed up by someone wandering around slowly in front of you :X
imo the last thing marines need is a movement speed increase, they can already quite easily outmaneuver skulks as it is.
If skulks get a movement/acceleration increase to compensate, then yeah sure try it out.
Just a walk key then. I don't think it'd be too op
after the forum doesnt accept my quotes/idea/feedback with a readable format, i put everything in this .pdf-file. Thanks to everybody, who take notice and read it
My serious reply is that i dont view these as changes. Its a whole new game. The overwhelming majority of skills mastered playing as alien have been invalidated, for no reason. Take the fade changes, their effectiveness is pretty similar, so says everyone in support of BT. So, remind me, what balance purposes did pulling the rug out from under everyone who had previously played fade serve? Just to fuck with people? Dont get me wrong, theres a lot of positive changes. But they are lumped in with the horrid.
My condolences to the people who have apparently already mastered the replacement mechanics within their first 17 seconds of BT, as you all no longer have any reason to continue to play now that you've worked your way to the top. I expect to see you all in the next NSL.
That was definitely a bad post, however i was shocked UWE is going to continue with the balance mod after the backlash. It was a good idea, for testing INDIVIDUAL changes, but it ended up taking over the entire game. Additionally. i remember reading a dev post saying something about "never doing this again" or at least making it less of a pain for the players.
I don't see how this is "balanced" or how the HMG would be "balanced"
Untied CCs are all about having the occasional relocate and to vary up the game play.
So disregarding balance for a moment, it's about mixing up the average round a bit. It's the "beta" test now.
I would also like to point out on my point of view that having stronger rifle in 6v6 compatitive play is much better because having to face one onos vs 4 marines it's very hard to win. Can't remember, was it 12 clips to take down one onos? Anyways, it is hard.
Keep up the good work sewlek and thanks to all the others who are testing the balance everyday.
It should not be the case that they can just go anywhere with tech points being just another anywhere that they can go.
Relocations happen in live every now and then. Relocations to cross on summit, even more common is relocation to ET if shipping to deny half of the RTs at the top of tram.
Tbh I don't think we would see it much more often if the CCs weren't tied to tech points. Just gives you some more freedom to choose a location if you do want to do it.
Haven't the exos been modified to sort of fill that role currently? I feel like they are finally in a somewhat good place, and an HMG would just be picked over exos, i would assume?
I guess, what role is it supposed to fill?
Why do we want to create another middleground between shotguns and exos? That is just going to make exo suits even less viable, and will widen the jump from pubs to playing and spectating competitive. If theres really a problem, some work should be put into making exos viable, even if its just railgun exos.
Plus, creating another weapon so similar to the lmg is boring. Its like if the developers made a stronger, faster skulk, instead of creating the fade.
How do deployable sentries work? I never played last stand.
Yes please. It's annoying to hold shift all the time. It serves no real purpose, it's just a chore.
If we harken back to NS1 the HMG filled the role of killing higher lifeforms later in the game (it did crappy damage to structures). As it is now, the Minigun Exo fills that role but it is a limited tech path. The HMG was available to both the HA and a standard marine. In NS2 the shotgun fills that role now, but it is available so early in the game it has caused some weird issues. The shotgun has needed to have enough stopping power to kill fades and onos as the match progresses. Yet early on with a quick research it is capable of scorching the earth.
That said, if this ends up going in we shouldn't leave the shotgun as it is. It should be toned down ever so slightly and its damage type changed again so it has a more defined role compared to this new "hmg". I'll also say again, I'd prefer something more unique than a NS1 hmg clone to fill that role. Nailgun, some sort of plasma cannon etc. As others have said a better lmg is kinda boring. The hmg + jp combo should also be cost prohibitive so that it is attainable but exos are still an attractive choice.
But doesn't a limited tech path exactly what reduces the occurrence of improper role timings, i.e. what the shotgun creates?
Meaning, if you make a weapon for late game lifeforms, yet it's only 15 pres, instead of proto lab, 40/60 pres, and largely impacted by arms lab upgrades like an exo... Doesn't that mean it will scorch the earth just like the shotgun??
Idk.. Maybe if the hmg were only purchase-able as an exo to replace the useless first, it would make sense...
Otherwise I just foresee everyone buying a cheap late game lifeform killer and a jet pack, laughing at anyone who just dropped 60 pres on something that has much larger downsides?
Thanks again for the reasoning
Seriously though, you may not want to "regress" changes, but i'd like to remind you that portions of this patch were in fact regressions to NS1 mechanics. Just something to consider.
Well from what it seems in the changes in the mod, Sewlek is keeping the shotgun as the late game lifeform killer but isn't gating it. So both the rifle and shotgun are available for research right away which I think is problematic if this is going to be balanced properly. The HMG was gated so you had to sink a fair amount of res before it was on the field which kept it to its place in the later part of the match unless you did some crazy all in strat to force it sooner.
So my suggestion is to gate one of those weapons to advanced armory separate from the GL/FT research, and balance the weapon that remains on the base armory as a midgame choice. PRes costs also need to be adjusted accordingly for the timing they will occur and also to prevent JP + "hmg" being the 100% go to all the time. Exos still need to be a viable choice.