My Honest Opinion
DarkATi
Revelation 22:17 Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17532Members, Reinforced - Shadow
Revelation 22:17 Join Date: 2003-06-20 Member: 17532Members, Reinforced - Shadow
What I say, I say in love.
NS2 isn't as fun as NS1.
I know many will tell me NOT to compare NS2 to NS1 but I can't do that. NS1 is why I joined the community 9 years ago. NS1 is why I bought NS2. I knew NS2 wouldn't be the same, but I hoped it would be just as fun in its own right.
OK, enough prefacing. Here are the things I miss the most:
1. Dropping comm chairs wherever you wanted.
2. The gritty look and feel of the NS1 maps. Dark and ambient, not bright and cartoonish.
3. Not running into the other team for several minutes into the game.
4. The larger maps.
5. Being able to ninja around the game.
My biggest disappointment is the style of the latest official maps. Don't get me wrong, docking and descent are beautiful! But they feel cartoonish. In fact, I think everything is more round and bubbly in NS2 and I don't like that personally. I miss the atmosphere of Hera, Bast, Nancy, Caged, and Nothing. There is no map that compares to any of these in NS2. None of the official maps have compelling soundscapes, at least not compared to NS1.
Another thought: NS2 is sort of a mix of classic NS and Combat NS. That's a real problem, because if I wanted to play combat back in the day I wanted combat and not a classic match (and vice versa). In essence, I had a choice. But in NS2 I don't have an official choice, and this compromise has, in my opinion, destroyed the uniqueness of NS.
I'm not leaving the community.
I'm not complaining out of anger or frustration.
I'm just sharing my thoughts.
There is no expectation that anyone will do anything with them, but I wanted to make them available to the community.
UWE: You have done a good job with NS2. There is no doubt about that. Keep on working; I support you guys. Like I said, the game is good, but it isn't great yet. Hopefully, it will get there in time.
What do you think?
Blessings,
Cody
NS2 isn't as fun as NS1.
I know many will tell me NOT to compare NS2 to NS1 but I can't do that. NS1 is why I joined the community 9 years ago. NS1 is why I bought NS2. I knew NS2 wouldn't be the same, but I hoped it would be just as fun in its own right.
OK, enough prefacing. Here are the things I miss the most:
1. Dropping comm chairs wherever you wanted.
2. The gritty look and feel of the NS1 maps. Dark and ambient, not bright and cartoonish.
3. Not running into the other team for several minutes into the game.
4. The larger maps.
5. Being able to ninja around the game.
My biggest disappointment is the style of the latest official maps. Don't get me wrong, docking and descent are beautiful! But they feel cartoonish. In fact, I think everything is more round and bubbly in NS2 and I don't like that personally. I miss the atmosphere of Hera, Bast, Nancy, Caged, and Nothing. There is no map that compares to any of these in NS2. None of the official maps have compelling soundscapes, at least not compared to NS1.
Another thought: NS2 is sort of a mix of classic NS and Combat NS. That's a real problem, because if I wanted to play combat back in the day I wanted combat and not a classic match (and vice versa). In essence, I had a choice. But in NS2 I don't have an official choice, and this compromise has, in my opinion, destroyed the uniqueness of NS.
I'm not leaving the community.
I'm not complaining out of anger or frustration.
I'm just sharing my thoughts.
There is no expectation that anyone will do anything with them, but I wanted to make them available to the community.
UWE: You have done a good job with NS2. There is no doubt about that. Keep on working; I support you guys. Like I said, the game is good, but it isn't great yet. Hopefully, it will get there in time.
What do you think?
Blessings,
Cody
Comments
Once upon a time, I decided where marines dare not tread. They feared my tunnels of doom, my healing nests, my forward radars. They feared my hive distress spit, my heal sprays, and my webs. I forged the line of battle, and I urged the rest on towards victory.
And now I heal spray harvesters for 10-20 seconds and run off to do it again. Then I block a doorway, drop some far less effective mini offensive chambers, and wait until Bile Bomb shows up. Sure, I've got broken Babblers and gooey Gorge tunnels, but it will never compare.
The closest thing is NS2:C, but I can never find a populated server for it.
Now, I'm not saying I don't like NS2. I love it. But some things will just never be the same. In some respects, that's great! In others, not so much.
But things change, and so do we.
I loved Natural Selection, and I love Natural Selection 2... even if I do go off about this and that every now and then.
However, I know that it isn't NS1 that I miss, its the memory of NS1. Don't underestimate nostalgia's power to twist reality.
This. Especially as the replacement is downright bad. I wouldn't complain about khamm if there was any point in it beyond just having it for the sake of having it. But there is not.
As the new balance mod shows khamm will even become less important taking away his upgrade choice. I really hope(but know it wont come true) that the gorge gets back his old role. I mean, khamm is so useless especially after taking away the ability upgrades that the few things he does could easily be given to gorge/distributed to the other lifeforms.
I get the nostalgia argument but it also has its limits. Relocations or ninja pg are game mechanics that are absent in NS2, it's not that it's not as good as in the past, it's not there anymore period.
In my nostalgic but honest opinion NS2 lost a lot of taste with the introduction of the alien commander, the asymmetry in the team organization in NS1 was giving the game a lot of spice, and a unique feel.
About the map, I also think that this thread as a part of truth, playing descent for the first time really felt like playing a mix of docking and refinery, almost to the point of déjà vu:
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/127078/how-ns2-severely-limited-its-own-map-design/p1
I'm seriously tired of this nostalgia bias argument. Surely there's nostalgia involved for many people, but there's no denying that NS1 has loads of stuff going better than with NS2. NS1 a higher highs and lower lows kind of a game. NS2 is more of a milder middle ground game on lots of stuff.
What's even more important is that most of the frustrating stuff in NS1 is something you can overcome and often even learn to love. It doesn't matter that much even if you don't get a single bigger gun during a round because there's almost endless depth and enjoyment in how you can dance around with your starting LMG.
Whether or not NS1 had more positive features than NS2 is debateable, and based almost entirely on personal opinion. However, that your memories of NS1 are more positive than your actual experiences were is essentially fact. Take this into account when comparing anything to your memories of something else.
Things like movement system, fight dynamics, game pacing and map flow are still enjoyable as ever, even if the 32 player server does its best to dull out the most enjoyable stuff. There's lots of game design and dynamics that still amaze me even today.
What I miss the most:
- Better alien upgrade system
- NS 1 Gorges
- Heavy Armour and HMGs
- Static siege cannons
- Webs
- Slower pace, much longer early game phase
- Relocs
- Proper sentries
Just to name a bunch of things, but anybody who's played NS 1 can attest to the fact that these contributed to making a MUCH better game in terms of gameplay. This is no nostalgia bias, it's just common sense. Take Exos vs HA, at least HA's still had skill involved where as exos are completely void of any real skill requirement and just serve to water down the game. There were simply a lot more viable strategies to experiment with.
too many maps is also a big problem like battlefield 2 and bad company 2, where most people never learn the map layout and tend to run around confused.
i think it's more personal preference, i kinda like the NS2 maps aside from the comp issues where 3 maps (veil, summit and tram) are played to death and gone a bit stale for spectators.
the other issue could be due to the new generation of gamer. in almost every pub game you have 3-4 skulks rushing marine main at start, if it doesn't work out then marines could have capitalized and killed an alien RT... it's like those players WANT combat in the first minute, they're not forced to. (works differently in comp play as marines will always want to pressure as early as possible)
the same could be said for pretty much every sequel ever made.
the developers have new ideas they want to embrace, it's not as if they attempt to recreate a duplicate of the previous itteration and accidentally change stuff.
just because you like NS1 more than NS2, doesn't mean that everyone feels the same way.
What is new to NS2 and in what way does it improve gameplay?
There are a few answers to the first part of this question but close to none to the second.
NS2 Gorges have many more toys than NS1 and more options with their pres. Webs were fun but extremely frustrating as Marines when you got permalocked in them, although I think that was changed before the final release.
At the moment though, most games end somewhere between the 10-20min mark. Early game combat goes by in a flash. Late game tech can come out so fast. It feels like there's very little room for error, because there's just no time to recover.
What I don't like is dismissing the huge merits of NS1 as nostalgia. Especially if the devs are really planning to support and develop the long term, it's absolutely vital to understand how NS1 plays out and why many people still consider it a superior game.
but catering for the 'many people' who consider NS1 to be a superior game is not necessarily going to improve the experience of the entire NS2 community.
unreal tournament was my first video game 'crush', and once ut2003 was released i was on the epic games forum pretty much every day saying how their new game was worse and they should change this and change that to make it more like the original.
eventually i accepted that it was a different game and that if my opinion on UT was widely accepted then maybe UT wouldn't have flatlined.
You are saying essenstially, your oppinion is worthless. You are misguided by your nostalgia. In that case, please explain to me why these things people are missing are not needed if they were so much fun for some.
What I see is a growing number of people who were around for almost 10 years getting fed up with ns2. People like you on the forums are one reason why that is so.
Most of all I just want people to stop pretending that NS2 is the pinnacle of NS gameplay in all aspects. Everyone is free to find NS2 a superior game by all means, but pretending that NS1 has nothing except nostalgia on its side is bonkers.
i'm not calling anyone's opinion worthless...
i'm merely voicing the other side, which is that people exist who quit NS1 because they felt it was flawed, and they enjoy NS2. if you can't follow, then it's YOU who is calling their opinion worthless.
What I was criticising was your way of contributing to a discussion. All I can get from your posts is you calling names and that is what I dont like. I would prefer a more grown up converstation.
calling names?
What, you don't like 3hr long games with marines turtling up at one hive location, on one RT, and eventually busting out as fully upgraded HMG HAs/JPs and stomping the aliens who had previously (and brilliantly) held 95% of the map? Come on, doesn't that make you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, especially if you were on the alien team at the time?
lol...
What is funny is that he has been very civil as you claim that it is people like him making everyone get fed up with the game. You then claim that you prefer grown up conversations...
Stop trolling.
I played NS1 for a few weeks before NS2 was released. It was good, but I can honestly say that I prefer NS2. Aesthetically, NS2 is better. The gameplay is still awesome. For me, the fun factor is just as high in NS2 as it was back in the day playing NS1.
The only thing that I really miss is this: the first time I played NS1, I shat my pants at the sounds of unseen aliens tip toeing about, then ambushing. Don't underestimate the whole 'first experience' gloss you get! That was so amazing, I was hooked, and I can still remember my first game of NS1 vividly. And here I am today, still hooked on Natural Selection, but now I'm a hardened marine vet who isn't afraid of a few pesky critters... So while I don't have that whole 'new car' feeling any more (got to slip a car analogy in...), I do have that 'trusty old banger who has served me dutifully and become my old friend in the process' feeling about NS.
Just my opinion, of course.
Roo
Am I being nostalgic? Sure. Nostalgia plays a part in all of this. I admit that.
But I don't think nostalgia accounts for all of it.
Maybe I'm wrong. I don't know. All I know is that I don't enjoy NS2 as much as I enjoyed NS1. I still play NS2 all the time. It's a good game, but it doesn't feel as fun as NS1 felt. Or, I should say, it doesn't feel as fun as I *remember* NS1 feeling.
Nostalgia has to be factored in, but it's becoming a cop-out around here - a convenient way to dismiss the opinions of some loyal fans and followers of UWE.
I just finished a fun round of NS2 on Veil. Punching stuff in an Exo-suit is 100 times more fun than HA trains, where everyone has their welders out in a straight line. :P I'm not saying NS2 is a bad game, and I'm not saying that it isn't fun. All I am saying is that I don't get the same feelings playing NS2 as I did playing NS1. That makes me sad, because I liked those feelings. I liked the creaking and groaning scoundscape of ns_nothing. I liked not encountering aliens as a marine for several minutes. As others have mentioned, I liked the Gorge being a mobile Khamm of sorts. These elements gave the game a very cool feel. NS2 has very few awe-inspiring elements, in my opinion.
NS1 felt epic. NS2 feels like a sideshow, a fun mini-game, a fast-paced kiddie version of NS.
Call it what you want. That's how I feel.
Blessings,
Cody