Directional Kharaa Armor

jorgamun

If it weren't too intensive on the game logic at this or near future stages, I think modifying mitigation based on hit location for Kharaa could introduce some good tactical elements into the gameplay.

The Fade could have extra armor/mitigation on his back, encouraging the assassin hit-and-run style gameplay.

The Onos could have extra armor/mitigation around his face and maybe on his upper back (though that might be too strong against jetpacks) encouraging the charging that doesn't get used nearly as well as it should.

I'm not sure how to balance it to make it not a strict upgrade to the current state of armor. Perhaps have vulnerable hitboxes as well, like heads.

Kouji_San

I'm not sure how this would fit into the NS2 gameplay. The reason we don't have the "random damage burst" or "damage absorption" hitboxes in the game is purely from a balancing point of view. It is easier to balance just hitpoints instead of adding these random factors into it. Adding more armour to a retreating Fade would make the already hard to beat monster, even harder. Because when most Fades die when they are retreating and still under fire. Unless they are just playing too risky and have a thing for staring down the barrel of a Shotgun :P

The Gorgeous DLC already has Babblers which absorb damage and is already a big step away from the norm. But adding random damage bursts or absorption to NS2. I don't think it will work very well.

There were plans for the Onos having an ability to negate damage from the front using an ability called Bone Shield, which meant it would extend it's armour plates on the side of his head making it move slowly as well. However this was never implemented as it didn't really fit the mobile type of gameplay that defines the Kharaa.

jorgamun

There is nothing random about having different hitboxes for different areas of a body. If that were the case, you'd have competitive CS players bitching about how lucky their opponents were for getting headshots.

Like I said, directional armor on the Fade would encourage hit-and-run style gameplay, perhaps balanced by decreasing mitigation on the frontside. That is how it would fit into gameplay, plain and simple. They have to "stare down the barrel of a shotgun" to attack a Marine anywhere near lategame, as a Marine with a3 takes an average of 5 swipes to kill.

Kouji_San

Nope, you're comparing a completely symmetrical game with an asymmetrical game. Random damage hitboxes when a ranged team is shooting you, when you are trying to get away or attack is simply not going to work very well... NS is about twitch aiming and tracking aiming, gameplay is much faster then CS. Those things have made NS and NS2 what it is today.

In CS both teams have these hitbox damage zones and they work very well for CS. In NS2, with melee vs ranged combat it would add unfairness and randomness into the combat factor (attacking and retreating), its a completely different set of rules of engagement compared to other games. NS is a prime example of why it works so well in its current iteration, NS2 is using that system because it worked so well in NS. Besides the Fade is already an Hit and Run unit due to damage output/absorption of the marines. Adding armour to his back doesn't change his playstyle, it only makes an already hard to kill unit even harder to kill.

For example, I'm not entirely happy with the Fade's damage output or Armories undoing his damage output as well by repairing armour. There is where something could be done, while keeping it withing the realm of NS gameplay. However those two things are also prone to making the Fade extremely powerful if too much damage output or absorption is added to the Fade, when in the hands of a very good player.



[edit]
The Gorge also had a armour never implemented upgrade when crouching, basically not moving and damage absorption from the front. Also rejected due to mobility. Bellyslide makes much more sense and is also loads of fun. Best game feature ever in the entire video game history imho :P

jorgamun

The card that you can't compare NS2 to any other FPS that has symmetry is ridiculous. There are still aspects that exist across the subgenres. That's not an effective stance for deciding what should or should not be elements in the gameplay.

It's also a silly card to pull saying that NS2 is adhering to what worked in NS1, because it certainly isn't.

Those aside, simple directional hitboxes would not be as "random" to utilize as headshot hitboxes like you seem to imply. It becomes a tactical choice rather than a random modifier when you have to think about which side to aim from, and take opportunities to get in sweet shots when you can, because at that point it's knowing when to shoot rather than being able to have high twitch aim. There's nothing random about a Fade getting shot in the face with a shotgun needing to die, just like there's nothing random about the knowledge that a fleeing Fade is going to be tough to take down (and with the current state of shotguns and JPs in pubs at the moment, this is increasingly rarely becoming the case).

Draptor

I think one of the major things you're forgetting is the netcode/latency. Everyone's died a few times even when they've turned a corner because the server doesn't agree with the client's location. It's one of those things that's always going to be present in online gaming. Now consider that with directional armor, you're adding even more variables there- according to the server you still may be flaunting your weakpoint in a Marine's face even though you've turned away. If you've ever played any of the HALO games online, think of the number of times someone got the one hit "assassination" kill on you even though on your screen you've almost faced them.

Sure, UW could spend a few years tweaking the netcode's prediction and reliability, but that's going to be damned hard to balance. Every change to the netcode could have huge ramifications. Just look at the newest update- a simple fix to the way skulk movement appears to other players made the lifeform much harder to play.

jorgamun

That's a good point, I pretty much just lumped it in with my statement about the intensity of the game logic. Ultimately I think it would be a good idea in theory, but the reality of the current state of the engine would prevent an effective implementation...

Draptor

Quite possibly.

hakenspit

Bone shield has been talked about for onos...still seems to be on wish list...would like to hear an update as to if this will be implemented.

sHawke_Native

why not have bone shield be an upgrade for all aliens? it'll reduce overall damage from bullets from the fronts of onos and skulk, top of gorge, bottom of lurk and the back of fade. what do you think of this?