I wasn't thinking of the cost, I thought the duration was 5 seconds, guess not.
Yeah it's always been 8, although they were pondering cutting it to 4 seconds with a 12 second cooldown a little while ago. That never did get implemented though.
I don't understand the purpose of this ability. I mean it seems that being able to get med packs and ammo anywhere on the map, when your enemy can't, is strong enough as it is. It's frustrating when, as a Fade, a Marine standing in place with Nano Shield and Med Packs can literally out DPS you and kill you faster than you can kill him.
It wasn't in the first game was it? Why did they add it? What do the Aliens get in equivalence?
1.) No, according to my recollection.
2.) (Speculating) Defensive ability. Allows the Commander to directly influence an engagement. An additional tool in a Commanders arsenal. It's cool.
3.) Nothing directly equivalent. But, as someone else responded, Alien Khammanders have Bone-Wall and Drifter Enzyme.
I like it, a lot! As an Alien, I respect Commanders that abuse it; Shields! Everywhere. Those Commanders are able to Shield necessary players/structures, while managing upgrades, build request, support request, and complainers. They're able to do all this while watching the field and helping coordinate the team.
It's not a mechanic issue, it's a you-got-outplayed-by-the-Commander issue. You should have run. I'd imagine if you understood the mechanic better, you would have briefly retreated, then returned to finish the job. Fades are one of the fastest evolutions and extremely effective at hit-n-run; with or without Blink. If you lost your Fade, it's your own fault, in my opinion.
Its so hard to click on a marine once with a nano shield... Anyone supporting this mechanic does not understand why it is so overpowered, nor why it has no place being used on marines, especially when a mechanic exists that fits the exact same role which has the drawbacks that actually make it counterable and beatable. Nanoshield is the marine equivalent of a tres fade every other minute.
I'll be in favour on shortening duration, at least when used on marines.
It's fine but the downside, when used on a good upgraded SG / JP marine, it makes "standard" aliens sick.
Even when you like challenges, when you don't stand a chance, it is not a challenge anymore but just a pain in the a*s
And what is a downside also is that you tend to use it on your leet marines. It reminds me one thing that was FATAL to NS1 : dropping equipment only to the best (wich is a reason why Pres are such a important improvment over NS1's Tres only)
And what is a downside also is that you tend to use it on your leet marines.
@Wake You are kidding right? If I have a team of two, 1 noob and 1 leet, one is jumping around like a jack in the box (or even has a jetpack) while noob is more likely to be standing still/ only side stepping. I give Nano to the noob sometimes because he then has a greater chance of living.
Ok bad example, but the point remains, post scarcity end game Nano should become a staple usage. On welders for exos, flanked marines who didn't listen to you, the list goes on and doesn't matter the skill of the player.
You could say people have a tendency to drop it on jet packers or people with low health maybe... This is more likely to be a leet person (others more likely to get completely destroyed rather than 2 bits of health).
Its so hard to click on a marine once with a nano shield... Anyone supporting this mechanic does not understand why it is so overpowered, nor why it has no place being used on marines, especially when a mechanic exists that fits the exact same role which has the drawbacks that actually make it counterable and beatable. Nanoshield is the marine equivalent of a tres fade every other minute.
Bit of an exaggeration here, since it would be like having a TRes fade that turns back into a skulk within 8s.
I'm also not sure why you think the drawbacks are so different between meds and nanoshields as to make one counterable and the other not. Aliens have little influence on the accuracy of med drops and the drawback from the relationship between the economy and comm droppables is nearly the same for both.
As an alien your movement can control the effectiveness of the marine commander medpacks - you cannot control the effectiveness of nanoshield as once cast, it is always on. Also its not that nanoshield itself is too powerful, its the effect when used in conjunction with medpacks - it takes a marine that would have died easily to one that with decent aim is not killable. Why do marines need 2 combat support abilities, especially one that grants such immunity against aliens with way less staying power?
The comparison is by no means an exaggeration - as the effects of it are easily apparent when you watch fades die in 2 shots to marines that take 8 swipes to kill.
I'm not a fan of shortening nanoshield duration, since it makes it too short to justify using it. It needs to be 8 seconds to be useful on structures, so if people consider it OP on marines, then maybe do ONE of the following: (not all of them together)
-Make nanoshield reduce OUTGOING damage by 50%.
-Make nanoshield reduce healing from medpacks by 50%.
-Make nanoshield PREVENT healing from medpacks while active.
-Make nanoshield PREVENT armory use (health and armor) while active
-Make nanoshield only reduce health damage by 50% - no armor damage reduction.
-Make nanoshield slow movement slightly while active.
-Make nanoshield start at 50% damage reduction, falling off to 10% over the 8 seconds. (so second #1 is 50% reduction, then drop by 5% a second, so at the last second it is only a 10% reduction)
Note, I'm just tossing out ideas here, I haven't given any thought to impact so please don't anyone get all riled up. It's more just ideas to help people understand there are WAY more ways you can alter nanoshield without nerfing the duration into the ground. I feel it's important that the effect last for the duration of an 'encounter', but how strong the effect should be is something I am very much open to debating. There are a lot of ways you can tweak this.
As an alien your movement can control the effectiveness of the marine commander medpacks - you cannot control the effectiveness of nanoshield as once cast, it is always on. Also its not that nanoshield itself is too powerful, its the effect when used in conjunction with medpacks - it takes a marine that would have died easily to one that with decent aim is not killable. Why do marines need 2 combat support abilities, especially one that grants such immunity against aliens with way less staying power?
The comparison is by no means an exaggeration - as the effects of it are easily apparent when you watch fades die in 2 shots to marines that take 8 swipes to kill.
Certainly true, but I question the size of the effect alien movement has on medpack effectiveness in practice. I see many comms (especially highly skilled comp ones) able to predict and correct for all but the most ridiculous marine trajectories forced by an attacking alien.
I will agree that nano + medpacks are pretty op, but I find its mostly an issue with mid/late-game medpacking (if marines survive long enough to get the 2nd CC, then they are more likely able to afford the op-levels of medspam). One tech node nano without medpacks would work much better imo.
Nano would be next to useless in that situation, since it effects are much more limited versus medpacks. Aliens can control marine positioning in combat quite easily, and by doing so are able to pull marines away from meds, or cause the comm to waste many more than are needed. Theres alot more to fighting medpack spam then just running in and swiping - you can bait and force combat where you want it in the room as an alien - all of which are tatics to counter medspam which requires all of the commanders focus - if you can keep a comm focused over a single area for an extended period, your making other areas much more vulnerable around the map. The balance of medspam was always that it required all of the comms attention, was extremely resource intensive, and was by no means a guarantee of victory.
I'm not a fan of shortening nanoshield duration, since it makes it too short to justify using it. It needs to be 8 seconds to be useful on structures, so if people consider it OP on marines, then maybe do one (or more) of the following:
-Make nanoshield reduce OUTGOING damage by 50%.
-Make nanoshield reduce healing from medpacks by 50%.
-Make nanoshield PREVENT healing from medpacks while active.
-Make nanoshield PREVENT armory use (health and armor) while active
-Make nanoshield only reduce health damage by 50% - no armor damage reduction.
-Make nanoshield slow movement slightly while active.
-Make nanoshield start at 50% damage reduction, falling off to 10% over the 8 seconds. (so second #1 is 50% reduction, then drop by 5% a second, so at the last second it is only a 10% reduction)
Note, I'm just tossing out ideas here, I haven't given any thought to impact so please don't anyone get all riled up. It's more just ideas to help people understand there are WAY more ways you can alter nanoshield without nerfing the duration into the ground. I feel it's important that the effect last for the duration of an 'encounter', but how strong the effect should be is something I am very much open to debating. There are a lot of ways you can tweak this.
You could have saved a lot of page space and just said:
-Make nanoshield useless
Nano would be next to useless in that situation, since it effects are much more limited versus medpacks. Aliens can control marine positioning in combat quite easily, and by doing so are able to pull marines away from meds, or cause the comm to waste many more than are needed. Theres alot more to fighting medpack spam then just running in and swiping - you can bait and force combat where you want it in the room as an alien - all of which are tatics to counter medspam which requires all of the commanders focus - if you can keep a comm focused over a single area for an extended period, your making other areas much more vulnerable around the map. The balance of medspam was always that it required all of the comms attention, was extremely resource intensive, and was by no means a guarantee of victory.
Hmmm, good points, as there is definitely a trade-off between attention (e.g. med accuracy) and resource wastage (from unused medpacks). I'm not questioning that nano would effectively get rid of that dynamic, so much as how much influence aliens actually have in altering that trade-off. For example, if alien movement forced someone like Scrajm to spend an extra 1s focused on a group of marines he's medpacking, that would be a pretty negligible burden on his attention. However, if it was at 10s or longer, that would be a pretty serious impact.
If you have links to any good videos (NS1/2) that gives a good example of how this trade-off works in practice, that would be great. I might be able to draw out some data (e.g. # of medpacks dropped/wasted, comm attention on marines, etc) that would help estimate the magnitude of the effect.
I really enjoy the game play that comes with the Nano Shield, and I really do not see it as OP or in need of a nerf. Obviously It may seem unfair when you are playing against a marine commander who likes to apply it liberally, usually throughout the second half of the game. In these situations there are a number of other factors going on that you could consider to maybe allow you to eventually win or to win next time, such as the large amount of resources being spent on these Nano shields, the fact that the marines have been allowed enough map control to use the ability in the first place, and the window of opportunity that is created after each of its uses.
I feel that Nano Shield is important for the game as it can create some interesting combat situations and it does not happen often enough to be really considered bad for game play especially as some marines may not even get the chance to use it at all in some matches. Giving a solo marine a better fighting chance against a higher life form, more time to save a structure, or to help protect a target in the chaos of a full alien attack (with Fades, skulks, and Lerk spores taking up all your screen) are all good for game play as it can create uncertainty, tension, and excitement to an engagement. If every engagement went the way you think it should* the game would become stale and boring in my opinion and would be similar to me walking into an Onos accidentally by myself, because we all know how that situation is going to go down. But those situations are OK because of the obvious resource difference between the two of us. In addition to these points I also feel that the fact that the fast moving life forms like the Lerk or the Fade especially, can often choose to retreat rather than to continue fighting also makes for a good game play experience and can even make the choice of having your Alien vision on or off also important for seeing the Nano shield spell effect.
The Nano shield also allows the Marine commander to have a direct impact on engagements which also adds to the game experience of the commander. Its hard enough for most new commanders to get med or ammo packs out at the right time so they may not even use it at all, but for more pro-players who are looking for a challenge and are good at constantly watching the game board and predicting attacks, the Nano Shield adds an even higher skill ceiling.
Aliens may not have a 1:1 substitute for Nano Shield but that is not what the game is about. Each side has its Pro / Cons, Strengths / Weaknesses, and a temporary damage reduction shield anywhere on the map is one of the Marine's definite strengths.
You could have saved a lot of page space and just said:
-Make nanoshield useless
If you read my post I wasn't suggesting that ALL of those be implemented. Just one could be used. Overreact much?
If nanoshield is going to get nerfed, I'd rather see one of my options than a 4 second duration, which may as well be considered useless.
All of those except:
-Make nanoshield slow movement slightly while active.
Pretty much make it useless. But then again, I see it as balanced as is, so nerfing it ruins it to me.
^If a marine gets nano'd in a big push, there's plenty of other targets, and if he's alone, like Frothy said, just back off and go back in when it's down. Hell, make their comm use all their res on nano shields.
Comments
good times.
1.) No, according to my recollection.
2.) (Speculating) Defensive ability. Allows the Commander to directly influence an engagement. An additional tool in a Commanders arsenal. It's cool.
3.) Nothing directly equivalent. But, as someone else responded, Alien Khammanders have Bone-Wall and Drifter Enzyme.
I like it, a lot! As an Alien, I respect Commanders that abuse it; Shields! Everywhere. Those Commanders are able to Shield necessary players/structures, while managing upgrades, build request, support request, and complainers. They're able to do all this while watching the field and helping coordinate the team.
It's not a mechanic issue, it's a you-got-outplayed-by-the-Commander issue. You should have run. I'd imagine if you understood the mechanic better, you would have briefly retreated, then returned to finish the job. Fades are one of the fastest evolutions and extremely effective at hit-n-run; with or without Blink. If you lost your Fade, it's your own fault, in my opinion.
It's fine but the downside, when used on a good upgraded SG / JP marine, it makes "standard" aliens sick.
Even when you like challenges, when you don't stand a chance, it is not a challenge anymore but just a pain in the a*s
And what is a downside also is that you tend to use it on your leet marines. It reminds me one thing that was FATAL to NS1 : dropping equipment only to the best (wich is a reason why Pres are such a important improvment over NS1's Tres only)
@Wake You are kidding right? If I have a team of two, 1 noob and 1 leet, one is jumping around like a jack in the box (or even has a jetpack) while noob is more likely to be standing still/ only side stepping. I give Nano to the noob sometimes because he then has a greater chance of living.
Ok bad example, but the point remains, post scarcity end game Nano should become a staple usage. On welders for exos, flanked marines who didn't listen to you, the list goes on and doesn't matter the skill of the player.
You could say people have a tendency to drop it on jet packers or people with low health maybe... This is more likely to be a leet person (others more likely to get completely destroyed rather than 2 bits of health).
I'm also not sure why you think the drawbacks are so different between meds and nanoshields as to make one counterable and the other not. Aliens have little influence on the accuracy of med drops and the drawback from the relationship between the economy and comm droppables is nearly the same for both.
The comparison is by no means an exaggeration - as the effects of it are easily apparent when you watch fades die in 2 shots to marines that take 8 swipes to kill.
-Make nanoshield reduce OUTGOING damage by 50%.
-Make nanoshield reduce healing from medpacks by 50%.
-Make nanoshield PREVENT healing from medpacks while active.
-Make nanoshield PREVENT armory use (health and armor) while active
-Make nanoshield only reduce health damage by 50% - no armor damage reduction.
-Make nanoshield slow movement slightly while active.
-Make nanoshield start at 50% damage reduction, falling off to 10% over the 8 seconds. (so second #1 is 50% reduction, then drop by 5% a second, so at the last second it is only a 10% reduction)
Note, I'm just tossing out ideas here, I haven't given any thought to impact so please don't anyone get all riled up. It's more just ideas to help people understand there are WAY more ways you can alter nanoshield without nerfing the duration into the ground. I feel it's important that the effect last for the duration of an 'encounter', but how strong the effect should be is something I am very much open to debating. There are a lot of ways you can tweak this.
I will agree that nano + medpacks are pretty op, but I find its mostly an issue with mid/late-game medpacking (if marines survive long enough to get the 2nd CC, then they are more likely able to afford the op-levels of medspam). One tech node nano without medpacks would work much better imo.
You could have saved a lot of page space and just said:
-Make nanoshield useless
Nano Shield halves damage.
Enzyme doubles damage.
There's your direct counter. They exactly cancel each other out.
Although wait ... Nano Shield requires a 2nd Tech Point. And costs more. And can only affect one unit. And has a cool down.
As I see it, Enzyme is far superior to Nano Shield. Blame your Comm for not utilising his Drifters. Don't blame the game.
If nanoshield is going to get nerfed, I'd rather see one of my options than a 4 second duration, which may as well be considered useless.
If you have links to any good videos (NS1/2) that gives a good example of how this trade-off works in practice, that would be great. I might be able to draw out some data (e.g. # of medpacks dropped/wasted, comm attention on marines, etc) that would help estimate the magnitude of the effect.
I feel that Nano Shield is important for the game as it can create some interesting combat situations and it does not happen often enough to be really considered bad for game play especially as some marines may not even get the chance to use it at all in some matches. Giving a solo marine a better fighting chance against a higher life form, more time to save a structure, or to help protect a target in the chaos of a full alien attack (with Fades, skulks, and Lerk spores taking up all your screen) are all good for game play as it can create uncertainty, tension, and excitement to an engagement. If every engagement went the way you think it should* the game would become stale and boring in my opinion and would be similar to me walking into an Onos accidentally by myself, because we all know how that situation is going to go down. But those situations are OK because of the obvious resource difference between the two of us. In addition to these points I also feel that the fact that the fast moving life forms like the Lerk or the Fade especially, can often choose to retreat rather than to continue fighting also makes for a good game play experience and can even make the choice of having your Alien vision on or off also important for seeing the Nano shield spell effect.
The Nano shield also allows the Marine commander to have a direct impact on engagements which also adds to the game experience of the commander. Its hard enough for most new commanders to get med or ammo packs out at the right time so they may not even use it at all, but for more pro-players who are looking for a challenge and are good at constantly watching the game board and predicting attacks, the Nano Shield adds an even higher skill ceiling.
Aliens may not have a 1:1 substitute for Nano Shield but that is not what the game is about. Each side has its Pro / Cons, Strengths / Weaknesses, and a temporary damage reduction shield anywhere on the map is one of the Marine's definite strengths.
All of those except:
-Make nanoshield slow movement slightly while active.
Pretty much make it useless. But then again, I see it as balanced as is, so nerfing it ruins it to me.
Teamwork > Nanoshield
Anyway, pub games THAT I FIND don't use Nano often enough for my taste