Conceding is the stupidest idea ever! People already have the ability to F4 back into the Ready Room if their panties are in a bunch... why make it even easier for them to quit?
/finds "as usual" another thread bitching about something everyone pleaded for and got.
Concede helps to make sure the server doesn't empty from rage quitting. A fresh start with possibly randomized teams is this 'GENIUS' you speak of.
Seriously, this thread has got to be a great example of not having enough gameplay hours to respect a needed mechanic. You can't keep people from quitting but you can increase the likely hood that they will stay. It's sad that people are to whiny to see that.
You cant just generalise like that. I have nearly 1000 hours in over nearly three years and I hate concede.
if you do not want to play the game, there is f4, alt+f4, or disconnect. why do you need to build in functionality that says "this game will probably become lopsided at some point, just give up. you dont want to play anyway." it sends the wrong message to players, it's completely unnecessary.
if you do not want to play the game, there is f4, alt+f4, or disconnect. why do you need to build in functionality that says "this game will probably become lopsided at some point, just give up. you dont want to play anyway." it sends the wrong message to players, it's completely unnecessary.
F4 has never really worked as a concede function. Either through sheer stupidity, or some altruistic desire to not ruin a game in case the whole team doesn't feel the same way, people just didn't use it.
As for disconnecting and alt-f4ing, I think that this shows that concede is not for people who don't want to play the game, but for people that do. They just prefer to play properly.
Nothing will change if you remove concede from the game. The game will still end in a concede like manner except half or more of the losing team will be finding a new server or in the ready room. If they removed F4 then they would just be finding a new server.
concede is an anti-feature. it helps you stop playing the game.
this is beyond idiotic.
You see this wrong. It allows people to reset the game when it is in a frustrating state. It doesn't help you to stop playing. You could just quit the game than. But people who concede want to play. They just don't want to play the current round that is in a frustrating state.
I don't know, why you can't see that. At least you could look at pure RTS games, that all have some kind of surrender function that is used often.
I don't know, why you can't see that. At least you could look at pure RTS games, that all have some kind of surrender function that is used often.
It might have something to do with the traditional emphasis of different genres.
In RTS, the focus of the game is typically to win. I've seen people get quite excited in SC2 when their opponent disconnects because then they get a win. Players don't really mind how it comes about, so long as they win.
In FPS, people typically focus on killing their enemy. Post players of NS truly don't care if they win or lose, so long as they get to kill a lot of players on the other team. Concede takes this opportunity away.
If people viewed NS in the way (I think) it should be viewed, which is as a round which you must win at all costs, then nobody would mind concede.
I'm notably a pretty pessimistic player, and many times when I've lost hope as our team is stomped, and started to want to concede, I instead decided to keep pushing, and just yell at people more to get them where we need to be.
And guess what? We've turned it around, many times, when I had thought that we were done. You'd be surprised the sorts of things that can happen when the team is pushed to desperation. So the next time you want to vote concede, don't; just give it another five minutes, it won't kill you.
concede is an anti-feature. it helps you stop playing the game.
this is beyond idiotic.
You see this wrong. It allows people to reset the game when it is in a frustrating state. It doesn't help you to stop playing. You could just quit the game th[be[/b]n. But people who concede want to play. They just don't want to play the current round that is in a frustrating state.
I don't know, why you can't see that. At least you could look at pure RTS games, that all have some kind of surrender function that is used often.
I'm going to copy your post, and then make corrections
You see this wrong. It allows some people to reset the game when it is in a frustrating state for them, but not everyone, therefore making it frustrating for everyone involved. It doesn't help you to stop playing, it forces you to. You could just quit the game than. But people who concede want to playrack up wins by repeating the same strategies that once worked for them. They just don't want to play the current round that is in a frustrating state because it's not going the way they like so they call "do-overs", like a kindergartener.
I don't know, why you can't see that. At least you could look at pure RTS games, which I totally understand NS2 is most definitely not, that all have some kind of surrender function that is used often.
It is a pretty good idea to limit concede for teams that have more than one tech point, if own more than 1, no vote can happen.
Yeah that would work. I like the concede feature, especially since I played NS1 for years and spent hours in the marine base being xenocided and swiped and stomped and people still didn't want to F4. Also on the winner team, you blinked in, swiped, took some HMG shots and left again while Gorges would place all the chambrs outside the base. It did often literally last 10-15 minutes per round - so, OP, there's a good reason to have a concede vote, the devs know their game better than you may think.
In NS2, however, one frustrated person with a mic who sounds like he knows what he's talking about, can lead the team to concede, even if there's still a chance to just coordinate a skulk rush.
Blocking concede while at least two techpoints are held would be pretty perfect.
@Caboose: It would be easier if you would write directly what you think about concede instead of trying this boring "let me correct you" game. Now I have to assume where you are wrong:
- NS2 is part RTS it is a hybrid, so some RTS rules apply. I could start to explain it to you (Beginning by how early victories effect the gameplay in mid-game and how this results in predictable outcomes that are no fun and therefore Concede has its place.) but judging from your post, you are obviously not even interested to think about that.
- Concede is democratic. The majority decides. If you don't like it, but many others do... Shit happens but you can cry as long as you want, it won't change.
- Teams change on most public servers I play every round. Most of them even have a vote random. This "same strategy"-bs isn't reality in the game.
@_Necro_ I have stated my opinion before. Belittling the method in which I stated my opinion this time, doesn't change the fact that it is still a valid opinion.
All I did was take the points that you made, in the order that you made them, and added words to contrast your argument. I'll do it again.
- NS2 is part FPS it is a hybrid, so some FPS rules apply. I could start to explain it to you (In a first person shooter, where you don't just follow a formula that determines the outcome of the game, it's played through until it's over, and you try to win every step of the way) but judging from your post, you are obviously not even interested to think about that.
- Concede is democratic. The majority decides. which is the problem with democracies is that a sizable chunk of the population is always left unsatisfied, then gets pissed off at the other half. Keep it in politics and out of my games.
- Teams change on most public servers I play every round. and yet if a match doesn't follow a predefined set of circumstances early on, then people whine, give up and stop trying to win.
How come most other FPS games don't have a "I'm a pansy and I quit this round" feature? They seem to be doing pretty good in gaming population and such too.
If someone knows that they are stuck in that round until its entirety, then maybe they'll invest more effort and perhaps think of other, more creative, ways to bringing the game back. Hell, we had a game last night that we were all getting egg locked until 3 of the remaining players all went Lerks, saved our hive, we all spawned and went Lerks as well and won the match against a heavily stacked team. Fortunately, not enough people conceded. Things like this could and would happen so much more often if this anti-feature wasn't around.
How come most other FPS games don't have a "I'm a pansy and I quit this round" feature? They seem to be doing pretty good in gaming population and such too.
If someone knows that they are stuck in that round until its entirety, then maybe they'll invest more effort and perhaps think of other, more creative, ways to bringing the game back. Hell, we had a game last night that we were all getting egg locked until 3 of the remaining players all went Lerks, saved our hive, we all spawned and went Lerks as well and won the match against a heavily stacked team. Fortunately, not enough people conceded. Things like this could and would happen so much more often if this anti-feature wasn't around.
I'm not even going to read your second post because of your obnoxious way of commenting which forces people to play a game of 'Find the Differences'.
But while the main point of your first post (i.e. concede forces some people to end the game even if they didn't want to) is entirely correct, it works both ways. Not being able to concede forces some people to continue the game even though they don't want to. The difference here is that the vote concede feature requires a MAJORITY of your team to be willing to concede, and of course the game should agree with the majority instead of the (noisy) minority. If the majority of your team doesn't want to end the game yet, the game won't end. Simple as that. Although I do understand that it might not be entirely satisfactory to the winning team, but they would have won eventually anyway. I don't really see the pleasure in last-minute carnage.
And even if you would, for some reason, disagree with that, you have to realise that removing the concede function would accomplish nothing else other than killing the server since players start leaving because of the frustrating conditions, and that effect will snowball. There's nothing you can do to force people to play if they don't want to play, and giving them an option to make a mutual agreement of starting over instead of quitting altogether is the best alternative.
How come most other FPS games don't have a "I'm a pansy and I quit this round" feature? They seem to be doing pretty good in gaming population and such too.
If someone knows that they are stuck in that round until its entirety, then maybe they'll invest more effort and perhaps think of other, more creative, ways to bringing the game back. Hell, we had a game last night that we were all getting egg locked until 3 of the remaining players all went Lerks, saved our hive, we all spawned and went Lerks as well and won the match against a heavily stacked team. Fortunately, not enough people conceded. Things like this could and would happen so much more often if this anti-feature wasn't around.
How about enable server operators the ability to run a server without concede? And then add an option in the server browser to filter away servers that have concede enabled.
That way people who want to play on servers where they can quit because they're not winning fast enough can, and people who want to play on the server where they are guaranteed to not be forced to stop playing, can.
I've seen servers where the concede button was not visible, so it's already possible to deactivate it. It's just that most server operators know what the vote is for and they like it.
It's just a game design failure. They wouldn't want to concede if there was a hope of a comeback.
Das it mane, concede is a necessary evil because without RFK come backs are not possible at all, I'd really love for anyone to regale me with how it's possible to make a consistent come back in a game of NS2 now OP bile is out for either side.
I don't think the argument should be whether concede is in the game or not but why does concede feel so utterly horrible for the winning team to just suddenly get a victory banner and be in RR 5 seconds later, even now in March people still express "wtf why did you guys just concede" every other game, concede should disable spawns or let people F4 with no auto balance penalty to the winning team or something slightly more game play related that's still a clear indicator one team does not want to play on while not stopping the few from fighting a loss and going down with the ship and letting people on the winning team shoot down every last hive/gorge.
I'd really love for anyone to regale me with how it's possible to make a consistent come back in a game of NS2 now OP bile is out for either side.
It's probably not, but it is at least possible. It happens, which contradicts the argument that people concede because it's impossible to win a game.
So much more satisfying to win a game after almost half the team tries to concede, then get annoyed and leave the server, thus freeing up their slotsfor people who wanted to play.
I don't think the argument should be whether concede is in the game or not but why does concede feel so utterly horrible for the winning team to just suddenly get a victory banner and be in RR 5 seconds later, even now in March people still express "wtf why did you guys just concede" every other game, concede should disable spawns or let people F4 with no auto balance penalty to the winning team or something slightly more game play related that's still a clear indicator one team does not want to play on while not stopping the few from fighting a loss and going down with the ship and letting people on the winning team shoot down every last hive/gorge.
I'd be in favor of concede if all it did was disable team auto balance.
Concede is a great thing to have, tho i do feel some players do use it a little to soon, as when maybe 1-2 things go wrong?! Lose an rt or 2, i enjoy games were its back and fourth, or when thereis epic comebacks, like so epic comeback
Comments
You cant just generalise like that. I have nearly 1000 hours in over nearly three years and I hate concede.
this is beyond idiotic.
Allowing people to stop playing when they don't want to play
- Idiotic
F4 has never really worked as a concede function. Either through sheer stupidity, or some altruistic desire to not ruin a game in case the whole team doesn't feel the same way, people just didn't use it.
As for disconnecting and alt-f4ing, I think that this shows that concede is not for people who don't want to play the game, but for people that do. They just prefer to play properly.
You see this wrong. It allows people to reset the game when it is in a frustrating state. It doesn't help you to stop playing. You could just quit the game than. But people who concede want to play. They just don't want to play the current round that is in a frustrating state.
I don't know, why you can't see that. At least you could look at pure RTS games, that all have some kind of surrender function that is used often.
It might have something to do with the traditional emphasis of different genres.
In RTS, the focus of the game is typically to win. I've seen people get quite excited in SC2 when their opponent disconnects because then they get a win. Players don't really mind how it comes about, so long as they win.
In FPS, people typically focus on killing their enemy. Post players of NS truly don't care if they win or lose, so long as they get to kill a lot of players on the other team. Concede takes this opportunity away.
If people viewed NS in the way (I think) it should be viewed, which is as a round which you must win at all costs, then nobody would mind concede.
a win is a win, i don't get why you would feel more victorious if you could scratch one extra building to death.
And guess what? We've turned it around, many times, when I had thought that we were done. You'd be surprised the sorts of things that can happen when the team is pushed to desperation. So the next time you want to vote concede, don't; just give it another five minutes, it won't kill you.
I'm going to copy your post, and then make corrections
http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/13053/team-balance-and-what-bothers-me/p1
;-)
In NS2, however, one frustrated person with a mic who sounds like he knows what he's talking about, can lead the team to concede, even if there's still a chance to just coordinate a skulk rush.
Blocking concede while at least two techpoints are held would be pretty perfect.
- NS2 is part RTS it is a hybrid, so some RTS rules apply. I could start to explain it to you (Beginning by how early victories effect the gameplay in mid-game and how this results in predictable outcomes that are no fun and therefore Concede has its place.) but judging from your post, you are obviously not even interested to think about that.
- Concede is democratic. The majority decides. If you don't like it, but many others do... Shit happens but you can cry as long as you want, it won't change.
- Teams change on most public servers I play every round. Most of them even have a vote random. This "same strategy"-bs isn't reality in the game.
All I did was take the points that you made, in the order that you made them, and added words to contrast your argument. I'll do it again.
If someone knows that they are stuck in that round until its entirety, then maybe they'll invest more effort and perhaps think of other, more creative, ways to bringing the game back. Hell, we had a game last night that we were all getting egg locked until 3 of the remaining players all went Lerks, saved our hive, we all spawned and went Lerks as well and won the match against a heavily stacked team. Fortunately, not enough people conceded. Things like this could and would happen so much more often if this anti-feature wasn't around.
because this isn't a pure FPS game.
I'm not even going to read your second post because of your obnoxious way of commenting which forces people to play a game of 'Find the Differences'.
But while the main point of your first post (i.e. concede forces some people to end the game even if they didn't want to) is entirely correct, it works both ways. Not being able to concede forces some people to continue the game even though they don't want to. The difference here is that the vote concede feature requires a MAJORITY of your team to be willing to concede, and of course the game should agree with the majority instead of the (noisy) minority. If the majority of your team doesn't want to end the game yet, the game won't end. Simple as that. Although I do understand that it might not be entirely satisfactory to the winning team, but they would have won eventually anyway. I don't really see the pleasure in last-minute carnage.
And even if you would, for some reason, disagree with that, you have to realise that removing the concede function would accomplish nothing else other than killing the server since players start leaving because of the frustrating conditions, and that effect will snowball. There's nothing you can do to force people to play if they don't want to play, and giving them an option to make a mutual agreement of starting over instead of quitting altogether is the best alternative.
This isn't just an FPS game?
That way people who want to play on servers where they can quit because they're not winning fast enough can, and people who want to play on the server where they are guaranteed to not be forced to stop playing, can.
I don't think the argument should be whether concede is in the game or not but why does concede feel so utterly horrible for the winning team to just suddenly get a victory banner and be in RR 5 seconds later, even now in March people still express "wtf why did you guys just concede" every other game, concede should disable spawns or let people F4 with no auto balance penalty to the winning team or something slightly more game play related that's still a clear indicator one team does not want to play on while not stopping the few from fighting a loss and going down with the ship and letting people on the winning team shoot down every last hive/gorge.
Maybe better victory music (dub step), I dunno.
So much more satisfying to win a game after almost half the team tries to concede, then get annoyed and leave the server, thus freeing up their slotsfor people who wanted to play.
I'd be in favor of concede if all it did was disable team auto balance.
stoneburg is cofr still alive? by far my fave community from ns1.