I think they should remain yellow. If you want the real NS2 experience it is nice to know you can join a white server, but if I am looking for a diffrent experience it's nice to know where to look and the yellow gives me a visual indicator on where to look.
AsranielJoin Date: 2002-06-03Member: 724Members, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow, Subnautica Playtester, Retired Community Developer
The current ns2 stats bug is a perfect example why those servers need to be yellow. When i play i want to play on vanilla ns2, not having mods break the game.
The current ns2 stats bug is a perfect example why those servers need to be yellow. When i play i want to play on vanilla ns2, not having mods break the game.
This, unless every server admin puts what mods are on the server, in the server name (haha like that'd happen), I want to know if the server I'm joining truly is vanilla or not.
They just need to make what server mods are installed visible some how in the server list (like a view info button), then being yellow won't be such an awful stigma. As it is right now joining some yellow servers is a gamble. Then again with the sneaky ways people install mods to keep their server listed as white... you really can't trust any server.
Just a little hammer icon next to the star icon to indicate that it's modded would be sufficient - not a full-blown yellow name.
I'm desperate to add some custom maps to our public server - not necessarily put them in the rotation, but have them readily available for an admin to swittch to if anyone fancies a game of something different.
But having a yellow name REALLY kills your server popularity.
they said that they will make mods not flag servers as yellow anymore in a future patch
when is this patch expected to arrive?
Did they? I don't remember them ever saying that.
But, if they worked on the server browser, they could have it display more information about the server, including the mods it runs, so people are less wary about modded servers. That would be so much better than just whitelisting everything.
Just a little hammer icon next to the star icon to indicate that it's modded would be sufficient - not a full-blown yellow name.
I'm desperate to add some custom maps to our public server - not necessarily put them in the rotation, but have them readily available for an admin to swittch to if anyone fancies a game of something different.
But having a yellow name REALLY kills your server popularity.
Do what I do:
1. Install DAK (not through workshop, this way your server doesn't get flagged as modded)
2. Set map rotation to "order"
3. Add the custom maps to the end of the rotation
That way your server shows up as green up until the custom map loads. So it will populate quickly since it's green, but you can still play something than the same old boring maps by a simple map vote. Oh, and for those that thing a green server means a vanilla experience: lol. There are ways around everything and that's just one more reason why the current system is stupid.
Oh, and for those that thing a green server means a vanilla experience: lol. There are ways around everything and that's just one more reason why the current system is stupid.
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
Just a little hammer icon next to the star icon to indicate that it's modded would be sufficient - not a full-blown yellow name.
I'm desperate to add some custom maps to our public server - not necessarily put them in the rotation, but have them readily available for an admin to swittch to if anyone fancies a game of something different.
But having a yellow name REALLY kills your server popularity.
Do what I do:
1. Install DAK (not through workshop, this way your server doesn't get flagged as modded)
2. Set map rotation to "order"
3. Add the custom maps to the end of the rotation
That way your server shows up as green up until the custom map loads. So it will populate quickly since it's green, but you can still play something than the same old boring maps by a simple map vote. Oh, and for those that thing a green server means a vanilla experience: lol. There are ways around everything and that's just one more reason why the current system is stupid.
I'm assuming you're adding the custom maps some other way besides the "-mod xxx" way? Because doing it that way will flag your server as modded. Care to explain how?
DC_DarklingJoin Date: 2003-07-10Member: 18068Members, Constellation, Squad Five Blue, Squad Five Silver
Wouldnt a partial solution be that players can call upon a menu one way or the other, from the serverlist, stating which mods are installed on which server?
Like.. click server > menu > has these mods installed.
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
While I agree that, unless the actual game play is changed, it probably doesn't need to be flagged as "modded"; the players don't get to define what "modded" is. That is up to the developers. Finding ways around this fact doesn't suddenly make your server "not modded" and doesn't make the system "stupid". Instead appeal to the devs to either add the features to the game so your server is no longer classified as modded or be honest about it.
I understand the stigma that comes with "modded" but I don't think that stigma is completely unfair. Too many games get ruined by people modding the game and not informing the players about the changes. Suddenly you find yourself in a horribly distorted game that bares a feint resemblance to NS2 and can't for the life of you figure out WTF is going on (Marine vs Marine? What tripe is that?). Should that server find a way to list it's self as "un-modded" and let people think this aberration is what the game is?
Why does it list servers with custom maps as 'modded' anyway? That's absurd. It's the same game, surely anyone with half a brain will be able to tell it's a custom map. (And if they don't because it's good quality then what's the harm?)
I love mods, UWE supposedely loves mods too so they really shouldn't hinder custom content this much since by now it should be clear that yellow listed servers are incredibly hard to get filled up.
Just a little hammer icon next to the star icon to indicate that it's modded would be sufficient - not a full-blown yellow name.
I'm desperate to add some custom maps to our public server - not necessarily put them in the rotation, but have them readily available for an admin to swittch to if anyone fancies a game of something different.
But having a yellow name REALLY kills your server popularity.
Do what I do:
1. Install DAK (not through workshop, this way your server doesn't get flagged as modded)
2. Set map rotation to "order"
3. Add the custom maps to the end of the rotation
That way your server shows up as green up until the custom map loads. So it will populate quickly since it's green, but you can still play something than the same old boring maps by a simple map vote. Oh, and for those that thing a green server means a vanilla experience: lol. There are ways around everything and that's just one more reason why the current system is stupid.
I tried installing DAK, but for some reason, the .lua file I had to modify didn't have anywhere near as many lines in as it should have, so nothing happened. REALLY wanted to get a motd ticker working. -.- Damn my technical inability.
On another note - if they "whitelisted" DAK and NS2Stats, for instance, or other actually useful mods, they could bring in an icon purely for that mod. It would mean providing Official support for the mod, but I don't think that's in any way a bad thing... Insight was brought in as a permanent feature, why not NS2Stats as well?
Just a little hammer icon next to the star icon to indicate that it's modded would be sufficient - not a full-blown yellow name.
I'm desperate to add some custom maps to our public server - not necessarily put them in the rotation, but have them readily available for an admin to swittch to if anyone fancies a game of something different.
But having a yellow name REALLY kills your server popularity.
Do what I do:
1. Install DAK (not through workshop, this way your server doesn't get flagged as modded)
2. Set map rotation to "order"
3. Add the custom maps to the end of the rotation
That way your server shows up as green up until the custom map loads. So it will populate quickly since it's green, but you can still play something than the same old boring maps by a simple map vote. Oh, and for those that thing a green server means a vanilla experience: lol. There are ways around everything and that's just one more reason why the current system is stupid.
I'm assuming you're adding the custom maps some other way besides the "-mod xxx" way? Because doing it that way will flag your server as modded. Care to explain how?
You only need the map in the -mod command line if you're going to start with that map upon an initial start of the server. Otherwise it only needs to be in mapcycle.json under "mods": [ ]. This method has been hit or miss as of late in regards to whether the server will show up as modded or not. I've had to do away with the custom maps, but I still run the DAK mod without any flags.
The proper way to do this is to go to https://github.com/xToken/DAK and download the zip file. You'll then copy the items in the lua folder into your /NS2/lua in the directory you have your server.exe. All of the instructions are on the page on how to config it, but if you need any help then please feel free to shoot me a PM.
NarfwakJoin Date: 2002-11-02Member: 5258Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, NS1 Playtester, Playtest Lead, Forum Moderators, Constellation, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Supporter, Reinforced - Silver, Reinforced - Gold, Reinforced - Diamond, Reinforced - Shadow, Subnautica PT Lead, NS2 Community Developer
I'd like a button to inspect the server in general: see the player list, scores, what mods are running, maybe even the map rotation. It's always seemed a bit odd to me that this isn't in the game as it's a pretty common sense standard feature for a server based multiplayer shooter.
The problem isn't that they're all yellow... the problem is that that yellowness is the only information we have.
The problem is that "filter modded" button. All of the innocent mods become guilty by association. I find it funny that UWE based so much of the game on lua so it would be highly customizable and then turn around and spit in your face if you ever want to run a modded server. If you're going to treat modded servers that way then why not ditch the lua BS and at least give us better performance?
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
I hate custom maps in pretty much every game, as they look like some 12 year our slapped a few rooms together and called it "Good."
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
I hate custom maps in pretty much every game, as they look like some 12 year our slapped a few rooms together and called it "Good."
JektJoin Date: 2012-02-05Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
Meanwhile, maps that get 100s of hours put into them and look pretty fantastic like Jambi, Triad, Turtle, Icarus, Core, Nest and upcoming maps like Caged and Hera don't get any of the deserved playtime or recognition.
You have to step back and recognize just how much effort goes into these things, I challenge anyone to go and make a single room in the editor.
It's not only maps, there are entire gamemodes ready for people to play, the variety available through an integrated modding system should of been NS2s holding factor over a consistent and varied player base. Unfortunately it's a mess hosting these servers, it's a mess knowing what you're connecting to, and a mess even being able to connect in the first place for many users.
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
I hate custom maps in pretty much every game, as they look like some 12 year our slapped a few rooms together and called it "Good."
Meanwhile, maps that get 100s of hours put into them and look pretty fantastic like Jambi, Triad, Turtle, Icarus, Core, Nest and upcoming maps like Caged and Hera don't get any of the deserved playtime or recognition.
You have to step back and recognize just how much effort goes into these things, I challenge anyone to go and make a single room in the editor.
It's not only maps, there are entire gamemodes ready for people to play, the variety available through an integrated modding system should of been NS2s holding factor over a consistent and varied player base. Unfortunately it's a mess hosting these servers, it's a mess knowing what you're connecting to, and a mess even being able to connect in the first place for many users.
The only custom maps* I've played in NS2 have been awful, and you can't list Caged and Hera as those are remakes.
Amount of time spent on a map doesn't mean anything.
A map can look great, but still be functionally broken.
That's the flipside of my opinion on custom maps.
Hell, I've even dabbled in map making across a few games too.
I made a few custom maps for old school games(Doom/Doom II, Duke 3D), and I made some stuff with Forge in Halo 3/Reach.
I understand how much work goes into them, but just because someone spent time on something doesn't mean it's good.
It's still a modification of the original game, and should be labelled as such on the server browser.
Maybe not yellow, but something to indicate that "This is a non-standard map".
*I've played two, and I can't even remember their names.
They were still in the greybox stage though.
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
I hate custom maps in pretty much every game, as they look like some 12 year our slapped a few rooms together and called it "Good."
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
It is, because it flags servers as modded for things most people wouldn't consider mods (e.g. custom maps, admin systems, etc). The problem is what is a viable alternative that
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
I hate custom maps in pretty much every game, as they look like some 12 year our slapped a few rooms together and called it "Good."
Comments
Excluding the current ns2 stats bug :P
This, unless every server admin puts what mods are on the server, in the server name (haha like that'd happen), I want to know if the server I'm joining truly is vanilla or not.
Yellow for game changing mods
Blue for non-game changing mods (ns2stats, dak, etc)
White for vanilla
Who determines whether the mod goes blue or yellow? If it's the mod devs themselves, it's open for abuse.
I'm desperate to add some custom maps to our public server - not necessarily put them in the rotation, but have them readily available for an admin to swittch to if anyone fancies a game of something different.
But having a yellow name REALLY kills your server popularity.
Did they? I don't remember them ever saying that.
But, if they worked on the server browser, they could have it display more information about the server, including the mods it runs, so people are less wary about modded servers. That would be so much better than just whitelisting everything.
Do what I do:
1. Install DAK (not through workshop, this way your server doesn't get flagged as modded)
2. Set map rotation to "order"
3. Add the custom maps to the end of the rotation
That way your server shows up as green up until the custom map loads. So it will populate quickly since it's green, but you can still play something than the same old boring maps by a simple map vote. Oh, and for those that thing a green server means a vanilla experience: lol. There are ways around everything and that's just one more reason why the current system is stupid.
I don't think the current system is "stupid" simply because less than honest server admins find ways around the system in place.
- Doesn't require a ton of upkeep
- Doesn't make UWE semi-responsible for mods they have no control over
I'm assuming you're adding the custom maps some other way besides the "-mod xxx" way? Because doing it that way will flag your server as modded. Care to explain how?
Like.. click server > menu > has these mods installed.
What we really need is a way to see WHAT the mod does. Many people assume the worst, when the mod may be something minor.
While I agree that, unless the actual game play is changed, it probably doesn't need to be flagged as "modded"; the players don't get to define what "modded" is. That is up to the developers. Finding ways around this fact doesn't suddenly make your server "not modded" and doesn't make the system "stupid". Instead appeal to the devs to either add the features to the game so your server is no longer classified as modded or be honest about it.
I understand the stigma that comes with "modded" but I don't think that stigma is completely unfair. Too many games get ruined by people modding the game and not informing the players about the changes. Suddenly you find yourself in a horribly distorted game that bares a feint resemblance to NS2 and can't for the life of you figure out WTF is going on (Marine vs Marine? What tripe is that?). Should that server find a way to list it's self as "un-modded" and let people think this aberration is what the game is?
I love mods, UWE supposedely loves mods too so they really shouldn't hinder custom content this much since by now it should be clear that yellow listed servers are incredibly hard to get filled up.
*cough* improved server browser *cough*
I tried installing DAK, but for some reason, the .lua file I had to modify didn't have anywhere near as many lines in as it should have, so nothing happened. REALLY wanted to get a motd ticker working. -.- Damn my technical inability.
On another note - if they "whitelisted" DAK and NS2Stats, for instance, or other actually useful mods, they could bring in an icon purely for that mod. It would mean providing Official support for the mod, but I don't think that's in any way a bad thing... Insight was brought in as a permanent feature, why not NS2Stats as well?
You only need the map in the -mod command line if you're going to start with that map upon an initial start of the server. Otherwise it only needs to be in mapcycle.json under "mods": [ ]. This method has been hit or miss as of late in regards to whether the server will show up as modded or not. I've had to do away with the custom maps, but I still run the DAK mod without any flags.
The proper way to do this is to go to https://github.com/xToken/DAK and download the zip file. You'll then copy the items in the lua folder into your /NS2/lua in the directory you have your server.exe. All of the instructions are on the page on how to config it, but if you need any help then please feel free to shoot me a PM.
The problem isn't that they're all yellow... the problem is that that yellowness is the only information we have.
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=111615294
You have to step back and recognize just how much effort goes into these things, I challenge anyone to go and make a single room in the editor.
It's not only maps, there are entire gamemodes ready for people to play, the variety available through an integrated modding system should of been NS2s holding factor over a consistent and varied player base. Unfortunately it's a mess hosting these servers, it's a mess knowing what you're connecting to, and a mess even being able to connect in the first place for many users.
I hated combat mode in NS1.
The only custom maps* I've played in NS2 have been awful, and you can't list Caged and Hera as those are remakes.
Amount of time spent on a map doesn't mean anything.
A map can look great, but still be functionally broken.
That's the flipside of my opinion on custom maps.
Hell, I've even dabbled in map making across a few games too.
I made a few custom maps for old school games(Doom/Doom II, Duke 3D), and I made some stuff with Forge in Halo 3/Reach.
I understand how much work goes into them, but just because someone spent time on something doesn't mean it's good.
It's still a modification of the original game, and should be labelled as such on the server browser.
Maybe not yellow, but something to indicate that "This is a non-standard map".
*I've played two, and I can't even remember their names.
They were still in the greybox stage though.
I was agreeing with you that most custom maps look like "some 12 year our slapped a few rooms together and called it "Good."" By linking exactly that.
Yeah, I took a better look at afterwards.
I'm sick, and not full of any fucks to give to edit posts atm.
This fever just won't go away!