A few early notes as I test things while this is still in alpha:
What needs to be fixed:
I cannot pick up ammo packs at all, with any weapon
Lerks do not seem to take waypoint commands - they attack when in range just fine, but don't want to go to the waypoint
Current reward does not scale properly: skulk-30, gorge-7, lerk-15, fade-150, onos-400
once per steamid - is not working on map reset
I can recreate the load bug (where it reloads over and over never finishing) by reloading while walking into a logic_trigger. Might just be me as my computer stutters on npc spawn
npc_wave_manager - logic issue on the wave number, if you have only 1 wave it spawns one, if you have 2 waves it spawns 1, if you have 3 waves it spawns 2, 4 waves spawns 3 etc.
The good, the questions, & the suggestions
I like how spawned units will queue waypoints if not killed - only one unit on way1, one on way2, etc.
Clip size upgrade is great, but how about total number of clips? Or is that too difficult because the ammo light indicator doesn't work with more than 5 clips?
It's saying pick your class twice immediately on join, once before difficulty message once after, flooding out the join message
Is there any way to trigger a sound? I feel like there is already and I'm overlooking it
Is there going to be a way to designate on the minimap where it is now blocked? It would be neat if a mapper could even place a 'black bar' on the minimap or something
will you be able to buy medpacks? (classes other than support who gets resupply)
how about damage upgrades?
If the marines are not in a tight pack, units will appear right next to them sometimes!
Is ironsights working?
I'm excited to see the updates to this, as well as the ability to script defense or escort objectives mid-mission.
@peregrinus it's up to the mapper to set a 'boss fight' or mass wave. Which map did you play? It's also difficult for the mapper to balance as the game seems much easier with 2-3 than with 6 people.
I want to note I was wrong above - ammo clip increases total ammo size.
Cool thanks for your feedback Seraph! I just did another publish today so hopefully it'll be even better.
I think a lot of the bugs you raised are now fixed, I'm not sure about how to add a sound (maybe Jim has already written an entity for that?). Regarding the minimap, it's a tga file that you can edit in any decent image program so if you want to draw all over it go right ahead!
Also just an fyi, this mod is still very much in alpha. Things are going to break and get changed quite a lot and there are features that we're planning to add that aren't included yet.
If you do manage to find a server running it though, have a great time! :]
There is still a bug where you cannot play 2 rounds on the same map without changing map. It simply doesn't spawn the base, and the game keeps resetting itself.
Ammo clip size - actually does not seem to affect total ammo on the shotgun - it maxes out at 35 (note if you upgrade it adds one, but if you die it's lost).
You have to be running "Natural Selection 1 Knife" mod in order for the knife to show up - add the model to the xs mod?
Minimap - oh right! I took a shot at it but this is what I get:
I guess it's an improvement, though I'd rather make those areas transparent. Any ideas?
Also I'd be happy to consult with other mappers - I'm not sure who did xs_maze, but the triggers need some tweaking. Mappers please use once per steamid on the logic_triggers!
Edit: Just a note that Russian servers are already hosting this as a full time mod. Also the mod with more than 6 people becomes incredibly hard. Lerks at difficulty 10 are just mean.
Also building is really buggy, doesn't work sometimes. It switches to weapon instead of building. Also if you put an armory on the wall it gets kinda buggy, doesn't dispense at all angles.
Had a good game on a russian server with 10 or so players. The game is too easy with that number though. I felt 4-6 worked well, after that we could dominate the map too easily. Need more powerful enemies, or an Onos stampede if you get near the hive.
Gorges deaths are buggy. The model remains for about 10 seconds after it dies, and even after it disintegrates you can still shoot the space and green alien blood comes out
On descent, the aliens sometimes spawned right in front of my out of thin air.
And like last time the server crashed. Dont know if thats the server or the mod causing the crash.
Also is it deliberate to have a greyish coating to marine player models and structures? Almost like theyre untextured. If you shine the flashlight on them they look normal.
From the aliens point of view they're terrible at destroying structures. Can you randomize gorge spawns so occasionally they'll use bile bomb? And randomize skulk spawns to sometimes they use leap or xeno? And lerks could use gas...would be terribly effective
It can be too easy for us to rely on mines and sentries, but I don't want you to nerf sentries cos building stuff is so much fun
Huge bug today on my map, mineshaft. Wave 18, 1 lerk each lvl 4 difficulty, in Sorting, instead spawned a MASSIVE amount of lerks. Like 20 each. I double checked and the trigger is set to only 1. This is the first time I've seen this.
I also wanted to mention Lerk poison bite does not scale with difficulty, and likely should.
The Russian server is running a modded version of XS, which isn't good, but I do like the fact that Magno Boots is 1200 and JP is 2200 - boots are overpowered otherwise. Maybe this caused the above bug?
It's amazing that they are running a modified server, we haven't even officially released our mod yet! I'll have to take a look and try and get in touch. We've continued to make lots of changes so balance is definitely going to be one of our next priorities.
I'll try and take a look at your map bug - hit me up on steam and I'll see if I can debug it.
Had a good game on a russian server with 10 or so players. The game is too easy with that number though. I felt 4-6 worked well, after that we could dominate the map too easily. Need more powerful enemies, or an Onos stampede if you get near the hive.
Gorges deaths are buggy. The model remains for about 10 seconds after it dies, and even after it disintegrates you can still shoot the space and green alien blood comes out
On descent, the aliens sometimes spawned right in front of my out of thin air.
And like last time the server crashed. Dont know if thats the server or the mod causing the crash.
Also is it deliberate to have a greyish coating to marine player models and structures? Almost like theyre untextured. If you shine the flashlight on them they look normal.
From the aliens point of view they're terrible at destroying structures. Can you randomize gorge spawns so occasionally they'll use bile bomb? And randomize skulk spawns to sometimes they use leap or xeno? And lerks could use gas...would be terribly effective
It can be too easy for us to rely on mines and sentries, but I don't want you to nerf sentries cos building stuff is so much fun
@peregrinus: Thanks for all the feedback!
The strange colour is a deliberate feature (though the implementation will be improved at some point). At some point we'll integrate it into the class select menu but at the moment if you type into the console:
'setcolour <red> <green> <blue>' (where red, green and blue are numbers)
e.g. 'setcolour 255 0 0'
You can change your player's colour! When I fix it up, any structures you build will also inherit your colour, to make it easier to differentiate between people on your team. Also, we'll have some other ways of customising your character at some point.
The aliens will definitely get improvements to their AI over time. When we first enabled difficulty scaling they were kicking everyone's ass so I'm glad that it's slightly better now.
Ah I wondered how come in the videos the marines are different colours
There's still a lot you can do to differentiate classes.
I'd like the assault to have more powerful weapon options. The clip/magazine size upgrade should be stronger for him so you can really rambo. What about dual wielding?
It looked like assault has the same as the others basically except he can get flame thrower and gl...which are not as useful as shotty/rifles, unless you've modified them? Haven't tried the flamer anyway.
Personally I can't see the point of going scout apart from searching the randomized maps for the hive. It should have more than 1 function on top of that. Searching by yourself for the hive is fun though.
Maybe the scout should be the one who can build phase gates and observatories. That fits in with scouting class more than support class in a way.
I imagine it this way:
Assault = fire power and all upgrades extra powerful along those lines, plus a more powerful flamethrower and a gl with faster projectile. Let the assault get an exo suit instead of magnoboots and jet pack. Exo suit could be customised with a mix of miniguns/railguns/flamers (if someone can make that obviously).
Scout = mobility and navigation, special abilities with jetpack and magno boots (only the scout should get those in my opinion). The observatory needs a boost, like instant tracking, how it used to be in NS2 before the nerf, and maybe it should light up the room really bright too.
Support = welding, defence (mines, sentries), equipment + aid (drops and armoury). Sentries should be upgradeable so there's no need (and no way, as they get more expensive with upgrade) to spam them. Some kind of slowing forcefield/electric weapon would work well. I think I saw that in Alien Swarm...or whatever it was called.
So the scout and support have opposite roles. The scout is about moving forward towards the goal; the support is about securing your new foothold. Assault kills anything trying to stop his team.
And one HUGE thing that would improve this mod technically is to make all newly built structures (i.e. not the starting base) degrade over time. There are way too many entities towards the end - and only the newest 10% of them actually play a role. Of course you should vary the lifespan depending on the structure. And players should be able to recycle structures. Sentries could last 5 minutes, they're probably the most server intensive because they have some sorta AI. Observatories about the same. Armouries could last a bit longer. And phase gates should remain unless recycled. Support class can always weld structures if they don't want them to vanish. Sometimes players will get stuck and need sentries for longer.
Can you also stop aliens spawning in rooms marines already went through? That creates problems, like new players joining the map having to start from scratch...the map fills up with so much stuff unless there's a single front line.
And fix phase gates so they can be built on walls and roofs and STILL work. With my flashy mango boots I build a phase gate upside down way up high on the ceiling, problem was you spawned outside the map, not where the blue phase gate light is.
Can you make it so alien colours change depending on their level?
Lastly, it would be better with buckets of alien blood splashing the walls - floppy aliens sagging to the ground like deflated balloons doesn't motivate my inner space marine.
ns2_xs_maze is my work and as the workshop states very very much a Alpha work in progress.
so much so I've not even created a thread for it here on the mapping fourm as some of the features planned for the mod are not avalible to mappers yet.
Glad you guys have tried it and I hope you're enjoying it so far.
The triggers and waves are also very much a work in progress. I have plans to radically change them in the near future but are waiting on some of the new features that are being created for the mod and become avalible to me before spending a lot of time on them, only for them to change in the near future.
At the moment if you want to talk to me about the map. Catch me on steam by sending a friend request or leave comments on the workshop.
Is it intentional that you can't build as support if you get a jetpack?
When I tested yesterday there was still a large bug where it doesn't let people spawn. I'm not clear if it's auto team balance kicking in or something else, but people that join late or die couldn't respawn at a certain point, until map change.
Yeah but that's not our mod, the russians have published their "own" version of xenocombat,
so I don't know what they have changed exactly.
No - this is from my personal testing that I run from the KcK server to check mineshaft balance. Unfortunately its from these brief playtesting sessions that I think the Russians found the mod and then made their own, so my apologies.
As of my writing this, you cannot build when you have a jetpack. I also cannot reproduce the 'team balance' not respawning issue, so ignore that bit for now.
What button pulls back up the class selection screen?
Also, maybe some mapper direction: mineshaft right now is pretty linear to limit the number of spawns and limit enemy spawn on top of you. Other maps have you redo all triggers upon respawn, or just consistently toss lots of enemy your way. What does the team think about the desired feel & pacing for the mod? Maybe mineshaft is a bit too easy due to the lack of respawning waves?
Edit: also I was able to reproduce the error where it spawned 20 units instead of 1 like it was supposed to. The problem is I don't know how to make you reproduce it - it seems random so far.
I think it'd be simpler and clearer if the colours for each class were set so you know - 'There's a support guy, he can weld me', 'That guy's a scout I can tell him to find the hive'.
I think it'd be simpler and clearer if the colours for each class were set so you know - 'There's a support guy, he can weld me', 'That guy's a scout I can tell him to find the hive'.
Also I found today everyone was pink
I think we're planning to add badges above heads and some kind of team bar like in L4D/Spectator mode to solve that problem. The other thing is, further customisation options are planned in the near future, and ideally we'd like to make them persistent!
Is this normal? I have only encountered it in one out of maybe 10 games and it made the admin change map...
I have seen this twice in probably around 20 games - interestingly it has always been lerk. There is some sort of bug where instead of spawning 1 like the trigger states it spawns a mass of them. The issue is it's very difficult to reproduce.
Admin has to change map because server ticks start to tank when this bug occurs. But why are your lerks green?
Also, everyone I test this with is very excited about the mod, but wants to know if there is a plan for players to be able to play on the alien side and take over a spawned unit.
A human player on the alien side would make the game more lively and challenging.
What about an alien commander role where you could spawn waves and obstruct marines? That's what I imagined you might implement, not direct control of an alien - which is cool too.
All 3 russian servers went down and I can't find another.
Some clips from one of those servers (they'll be live in an hour or two)
What about an alien commander role where you could spawn waves and obstruct marines? That's what I imagined you might implement, not direct control of an alien - which is cool too.
All 3 russian servers went down and I can't find another.
This concept reminds me of the Source mod Zombie Master, which I really liked. One person had resource income and could summon & control zombies like an RTS. Everyone else tried to complete some objectives to escape without all dying.
I feel like it's a tall order for the team, but if it's possible this mod would go from good to great.
There is still a russian server up running a modified version of the mod, which is unfortunate.
edit: got the bug again today - tons of fades this time. Second time it's happened towards the end of mineshaft.
Comments
What needs to be fixed:
The good, the questions, & the suggestions
I'm excited to see the updates to this, as well as the ability to script defense or escort objectives mid-mission.
Iron sights do work though theyre pretty much pointless as NS2 doesn't have recoil.
Once I built a couple of sentries and 1 armoury I couldn't build anything else even though the options were available.
Is there a limit not being shown?
When you get close to the hive there should be some kind of boss fight or mass wave.
I want to note I was wrong above - ammo clip increases total ammo size.
I think a lot of the bugs you raised are now fixed, I'm not sure about how to add a sound (maybe Jim has already written an entity for that?). Regarding the minimap, it's a tga file that you can edit in any decent image program so if you want to draw all over it go right ahead!
If you do manage to find a server running it though, have a great time! :]
Ammo clip size - actually does not seem to affect total ammo on the shotgun - it maxes out at 35 (note if you upgrade it adds one, but if you die it's lost).
You have to be running "Natural Selection 1 Knife" mod in order for the knife to show up - add the model to the xs mod?
Minimap - oh right! I took a shot at it but this is what I get:
I guess it's an improvement, though I'd rather make those areas transparent. Any ideas?
Also I'd be happy to consult with other mappers - I'm not sure who did xs_maze, but the triggers need some tweaking. Mappers please use once per steamid on the logic_triggers!
Edit: Just a note that Russian servers are already hosting this as a full time mod. Also the mod with more than 6 people becomes incredibly hard. Lerks at difficulty 10 are just mean.
Also building is really buggy, doesn't work sometimes. It switches to weapon instead of building. Also if you put an armory on the wall it gets kinda buggy, doesn't dispense at all angles.
It even cloned me somehow so I could see a player with my name hovering in mid air
Then I got the red connection problem icon and decided to leave it there ^^
Tried to join an empty russian server and got the error 'Missing Mod Required'. Which mod? Shouldn't mods auto download?
Gorges deaths are buggy. The model remains for about 10 seconds after it dies, and even after it disintegrates you can still shoot the space and green alien blood comes out
On descent, the aliens sometimes spawned right in front of my out of thin air.
And like last time the server crashed. Dont know if thats the server or the mod causing the crash.
Also is it deliberate to have a greyish coating to marine player models and structures? Almost like theyre untextured. If you shine the flashlight on them they look normal.
From the aliens point of view they're terrible at destroying structures. Can you randomize gorge spawns so occasionally they'll use bile bomb? And randomize skulk spawns to sometimes they use leap or xeno? And lerks could use gas...would be terribly effective
It can be too easy for us to rely on mines and sentries, but I don't want you to nerf sentries cos building stuff is so much fun
I also wanted to mention Lerk poison bite does not scale with difficulty, and likely should.
The Russian server is running a modded version of XS, which isn't good, but I do like the fact that Magno Boots is 1200 and JP is 2200 - boots are overpowered otherwise. Maybe this caused the above bug?
I'll try and take a look at your map bug - hit me up on steam and I'll see if I can debug it.
@peregrinus: Thanks for all the feedback!
The strange colour is a deliberate feature (though the implementation will be improved at some point). At some point we'll integrate it into the class select menu but at the moment if you type into the console:
'setcolour <red> <green> <blue>' (where red, green and blue are numbers)
e.g. 'setcolour 255 0 0'
You can change your player's colour! When I fix it up, any structures you build will also inherit your colour, to make it easier to differentiate between people on your team. Also, we'll have some other ways of customising your character at some point.
The aliens will definitely get improvements to their AI over time. When we first enabled difficulty scaling they were kicking everyone's ass so I'm glad that it's slightly better now.
There's still a lot you can do to differentiate classes.
I'd like the assault to have more powerful weapon options. The clip/magazine size upgrade should be stronger for him so you can really rambo. What about dual wielding?
It looked like assault has the same as the others basically except he can get flame thrower and gl...which are not as useful as shotty/rifles, unless you've modified them? Haven't tried the flamer anyway.
Personally I can't see the point of going scout apart from searching the randomized maps for the hive. It should have more than 1 function on top of that. Searching by yourself for the hive is fun though.
Maybe the scout should be the one who can build phase gates and observatories. That fits in with scouting class more than support class in a way.
I imagine it this way:
Assault = fire power and all upgrades extra powerful along those lines, plus a more powerful flamethrower and a gl with faster projectile. Let the assault get an exo suit instead of magnoboots and jet pack. Exo suit could be customised with a mix of miniguns/railguns/flamers (if someone can make that obviously).
Scout = mobility and navigation, special abilities with jetpack and magno boots (only the scout should get those in my opinion). The observatory needs a boost, like instant tracking, how it used to be in NS2 before the nerf, and maybe it should light up the room really bright too.
Support = welding, defence (mines, sentries), equipment + aid (drops and armoury). Sentries should be upgradeable so there's no need (and no way, as they get more expensive with upgrade) to spam them. Some kind of slowing forcefield/electric weapon would work well. I think I saw that in Alien Swarm...or whatever it was called.
So the scout and support have opposite roles. The scout is about moving forward towards the goal; the support is about securing your new foothold. Assault kills anything trying to stop his team.
And one HUGE thing that would improve this mod technically is to make all newly built structures (i.e. not the starting base) degrade over time. There are way too many entities towards the end - and only the newest 10% of them actually play a role. Of course you should vary the lifespan depending on the structure. And players should be able to recycle structures. Sentries could last 5 minutes, they're probably the most server intensive because they have some sorta AI. Observatories about the same. Armouries could last a bit longer. And phase gates should remain unless recycled. Support class can always weld structures if they don't want them to vanish. Sometimes players will get stuck and need sentries for longer.
Can you also stop aliens spawning in rooms marines already went through? That creates problems, like new players joining the map having to start from scratch...the map fills up with so much stuff unless there's a single front line.
And fix phase gates so they can be built on walls and roofs and STILL work. With my flashy mango boots I build a phase gate upside down way up high on the ceiling, problem was you spawned outside the map, not where the blue phase gate light is.
Can you make it so alien colours change depending on their level?
Lastly, it would be better with buckets of alien blood splashing the walls - floppy aliens sagging to the ground like deflated balloons doesn't motivate my inner space marine.
Now get to work :P :P
Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Is it intentional that you can't build as support if you get a jetpack?
When I tested yesterday there was still a large bug where it doesn't let people spawn. I'm not clear if it's auto team balance kicking in or something else, but people that join late or die couldn't respawn at a certain point, until map change.
so I don't know what they have changed exactly.
No - this is from my personal testing that I run from the KcK server to check mineshaft balance. Unfortunately its from these brief playtesting sessions that I think the Russians found the mod and then made their own, so my apologies.
As of my writing this, you cannot build when you have a jetpack. I also cannot reproduce the 'team balance' not respawning issue, so ignore that bit for now.
What button pulls back up the class selection screen?
Also, maybe some mapper direction: mineshaft right now is pretty linear to limit the number of spawns and limit enemy spawn on top of you. Other maps have you redo all triggers upon respawn, or just consistently toss lots of enemy your way. What does the team think about the desired feel & pacing for the mod? Maybe mineshaft is a bit too easy due to the lack of respawning waves?
Edit: also I was able to reproduce the error where it spawned 20 units instead of 1 like it was supposed to. The problem is I don't know how to make you reproduce it - it seems random so far.
Also I found today everyone was pink
I think we're planning to add badges above heads and some kind of team bar like in L4D/Spectator mode to solve that problem. The other thing is, further customisation options are planned in the near future, and ideally we'd like to make them persistent!
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=148330573
Lerkplosion!
Is this normal? I have only encountered it in one out of maybe 10 games and it made the admin change map...
Green lerks client side?
I have seen this twice in probably around 20 games - interestingly it has always been lerk. There is some sort of bug where instead of spawning 1 like the trigger states it spawns a mass of them. The issue is it's very difficult to reproduce.
Admin has to change map because server ticks start to tank when this bug occurs. But why are your lerks green?
Also, everyone I test this with is very excited about the mod, but wants to know if there is a plan for players to be able to play on the alien side and take over a spawned unit.
What about an alien commander role where you could spawn waves and obstruct marines? That's what I imagined you might implement, not direct control of an alien - which is cool too.
All 3 russian servers went down and I can't find another.
Some clips from one of those servers (they'll be live in an hour or two)
This concept reminds me of the Source mod Zombie Master, which I really liked. One person had resource income and could summon & control zombies like an RTS. Everyone else tried to complete some objectives to escape without all dying.
I feel like it's a tall order for the team, but if it's possible this mod would go from good to great.
There is still a russian server up running a modified version of the mod, which is unfortunate.
edit: got the bug again today - tons of fades this time. Second time it's happened towards the end of mineshaft.