Should the Pistol be changed?

sinkingmistsinkingmist Join Date: 2012-11-22 Member: 172905Members
Do you like how the Pistol currently works?

Do you think it needs changes? If yes, how extreme should these changes be?
e.g.
- Holding down trigger should just fire the Pistol as fast as it can fire with a script of some sort (i.e. Pistol becomes a rifle-like weapon).

- Pistol just needs some kind of cooldown to prevent rapid-fire.

- Pistol should be revamped:
-- It should become a rifle-like weapon with appropriate adjustments to damage & clip-size.
-- It should become more like a mini-railgun. Slow fire-rate, high damage, high accuracy. Good for finishing off a wounded foe in 1-2 well aimed shots, poor for sustained damage over time.

- Other idea of your choice.
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Comments

  • thePUNISHERthePUNISHER Join Date: 2013-04-28 Member: 185031Members
    1 Add to armory pistol like a UZI with increased fire rate and clip with lower damage & short fire range
    2 Something similar Magnum.
  • NeokenNeoken Bruges, Belgium Join Date: 2004-03-20 Member: 27447Members, NS2 Playtester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Silver, Subnautica Playtester
    Pistol is fine as it is.
  • embemb Join Date: 2013-04-24 Member: 184969Members
    - Holding down trigger should just fire the Pistol as fast as it can fire with a script of some sort (i.e. Pistol becomes a rifle-like weapon).
    - Pistol just needs some kind of cooldown to prevent rapid-fire.

    I'd say these changes are necessary for the sake of fair play. You should not be able to unload your entire pistol clip in one second by triggering a script. Even though some people can mash Mouse1 very fast, scripts can fire even faster.

    Valve had the same issue with Pistols in Team Fortress 2. Pistol scripts allowed unloading the entire magazine in less than a second, effectively turning the Pistol from an accuracy-based backup weapon into a mid-range pin precise shotgun. As Valve continued to ignore the issue, pistol script use became widespread, and they eventually capped the pistol's fire rate.
  • FuleFule Join Date: 2009-06-04 Member: 67683Members
    Pistol is fine, no need for any cool downs because that would just remove the skill factor of how fast can you slap that mouse button to unload in aliens.
    lol @ akimbo - bye bye fleeing fades.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Yes, it should be changed to auto-fire. Pistol scripts will always be an unfair advantage otherwise, whether or not the rate of fire is nerfed.
  • SanthoranSanthoran Join Date: 2013-04-14 Member: 184809Members
    There is no "skill" in mash a button faster as humans can (...script), so yes there must be a limit set which is fixed. No one can click 10 times a second a button. Not even "skilled" players.
  • GoldenGolden Join Date: 2004-09-01 Member: 31169Members, NS1 Playtester, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, WC 2013 - Silver, NS2 Community Developer
    Or you can leave the pistol as a semi-automatic like it should be, and cap the rate of fire to limit the advantage of a script.
  • ZekZek Join Date: 2002-11-10 Member: 7962Members, NS1 Playtester, Constellation, Reinforced - Shadow
    Golden wrote: »
    Or you can leave the pistol as a semi-automatic like it should be, and cap the rate of fire to limit the advantage of a script.

    The real advantage of the script isn't the raw speed, it's that it fires full automatic, thus allowing steadier aim.
  • yuckfooyuckfoo Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168216Members
    Zek wrote: »
    Golden wrote: »
    Or you can leave the pistol as a semi-automatic like it should be, and cap the rate of fire to limit the advantage of a script.

    The real advantage of the script isn't the raw speed, it's that it fires full automatic, thus allowing steadier aim.
    The amount of people that use this script is ridiculous.
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2013
    Zek wrote: »

    The real advantage of the script isn't the raw speed, it's that it fires full automatic, thus allowing steadier aim.
    That's a fair point..
    yuckfoo wrote: »
    The amount of people that use this script is ridiculous.
    Are you sure you are seeing actual scripts?

    A) Its quite easy to manually empty that thing as fast as a script would for a lot of players (even for me)
    B) First person spec gives false positives because it is sort of tricky in it's mechanics, in that its only displaying 30fps worth of updates from the client. So discerning finite details like pistol firing speed while spectating can be wholly inaccurate.

  • JektJekt Join Date: 2012-02-05 Member: 143714Members, Squad Five Blue, Reinforced - Shadow
    Would like it to be like the TF2 pistol.
  • yuckfooyuckfoo Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168216Members
    edited April 2013
    Are you sure you are seeing actual scripts?

    A) Its quite easy to manually empty that thing as fast as a script would for a lot of players (even for me)
    B) First person spec gives false positives because it is sort of tricky in it's mechanics, in that its only displaying 30fps worth of updates from the client. So discerning finite details like pistol firing speed while spectating can be wholly inaccurate.

    It can be very difficult to discern. The best way for me to really "tell" is by the sounds of the shots. It sort of sounds like speedhacking in cs
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    yuckfoo wrote: »
    Are you sure you are seeing actual scripts?

    A) Its quite easy to manually empty that thing as fast as a script would for a lot of players (even for me)
    B) First person spec gives false positives because it is sort of tricky in it's mechanics, in that its only displaying 30fps worth of updates from the client. So discerning finite details like pistol firing speed while spectating can be wholly inaccurate.

    It can be very difficult to discern. The best way for me to really "tell" is by the sounds of the shots. It sort of sounds like speedhacking in cs
    Constant rate of fire?
  • nezznezz Join Date: 2012-12-11 Member: 174712Members
    pistol should be able to transform into megatron and fly away from aliens and land in there hive and then change to bumble bee and play music
  • IronHorseIronHorse Developer, QA Manager, Technical Support & contributor Join Date: 2010-05-08 Member: 71669Members, Super Administrators, Forum Admins, Forum Moderators, NS2 Developer, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue, Subnautica Playtester, Subnautica PT Lead, Pistachionauts
    edited April 2013
    yuckfoo wrote: »
    It can be very difficult to discern. The best way for me to really "tell" is by the sounds of the shots. It sort of sounds like speedhacking in cs
    Even those sounds are inaccurate from first person spectating, so just be forewarned.
    And also this is a PT , Kouji-San (non competitive) who shows how easy it is even without scripts... so even judging from sound..:shrug:
  • yuckfooyuckfoo Join Date: 2012-11-08 Member: 168216Members
    IronHorse wrote: »
    Even those sounds are inaccurate from first person spectating, so just be forewarned.
    And also this is a PT , Kouji-San (non competitive) who shows how easy it is even without scripts... so even judging from sound..:shrug:
    yeah, it certainly isnt an exact science nor would it be fair to accuse everyone who shoots their pistol fast as a cheater
  • MelancorMelancor Join Date: 2003-12-15 Member: 24415Members
    I'm glad this issue is finally addressed. Limit rapid fire please.
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    I'm fine with how it is.
  • PaajtorPaajtor Join Date: 2012-11-09 Member: 168634Members
    Imo, the current accuracy is rediculous, given the recoil of the weapon :-q
  • Ghosthree3Ghosthree3 Join Date: 2010-02-13 Member: 70557Members, Reinforced - Supporter
    It's light damage and if the person firing isn't scripting, it can only be used to finish off aliens, not kill them 100-0 (most often). It's fine.
  • meatmachinemeatmachine South England Join Date: 2013-01-06 Member: 177858Members, NS2 Playtester, NS2 Map Tester, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Supporter
    I'm with ghost, it's only light damage guys!

    If you could weild them akimbo it would fosho have to replace the main weapon slot
  • DestherDesther Join Date: 2012-10-31 Member: 165195Members
    With a macro on your mouse/keyboard you can unload all 10 shots instantly, right? That's 250 damage is more than a fully charged Railgun...
  • Kouji_SanKouji_San Sr. Hινε Uρкεερεг - EUPT Deputy The Netherlands Join Date: 2003-05-13 Member: 16271Members, NS2 Playtester, Squad Five Blue
    edited April 2013
    Desther wrote: »
    With a macro on your mouse/keyboard you can unload all 10 shots instantly, right? That's 250 damage is more than a fully charged Railgun...

    No, its capped around 100ms per shot. Or at least should be, if someone would be able to shoot them all at once the server will slap them and it would also be a bug...


    Also it's 250/280 light damage, armour eats that for breakfast which counts twice vs light damage type.
  • AurOn2AurOn2 COOKIES! FREEDOM, AND BISCUITS! Australia Join Date: 2012-01-13 Member: 140224Members, Forum Moderators, NS2 Playtester, Forum staff
    If you can shoot all bullets at once, it's not capped.
  • RoobubbaRoobubba Who you gonna call? Join Date: 2003-01-06 Member: 11930Members, Reinforced - Shadow, WC 2013 - Shadow
    Santhoran wrote: »
    There is no "skill" in mash a button faster as humans can (...script), so yes there must be a limit set which is fixed. No one can click 10 times a second a button. Not even "skilled" players.

    Yes, yes they can.

    Even unskilled players like me can unload the full clip in a second (less if the game allowed).
  • FLuXFLuX Join Date: 2002-12-30 Member: 11633Members, NS2 Playtester, Subnautica Playtester
    edited April 2013
    http://unknownworlds.com/ns2/damage-types-in-ns2-2/

    I would like to see pistols returned to heavy damage and a much slower fire rate. Much like firing the magnum on half life, shots should REALLY REALLY HURT, but should come at the price of very well timed shots with aim.
  • StripetailsStripetails Join Date: 2013-01-30 Member: 182644Members, NS2 Playtester
    What if the pistol was given a secondary fire mode, which was fully automatic?

    Couldn't a mechanic be added to increase the bullet deviation with faster fire rates? IE: Single shot, or slow shooting has none to little deviation while rapid fire gets a larger amount?
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