Framedrops when using mouse in lategame

LudwigX

As the title says: I get huge microstutters when i use the mouse in the late game. It's especially terrifying when you jump around an enemy, look at him and then there is a huge stutter.
When I circle the mouse fast, the fps drops down to 15!

My Rig:
Intel 2500k @ 4,1Ghz
GTX 570
8 GB Ram

Graphics: Texture middle, AF and multicore rendering on, the rest is off or on lowest.
I have a screenshot of the profile while circling the mouse:
http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/1081141376191941184/2EE67E736B575619F13FBB61966CFAF9C786D1C7/

Nordic

Will have to learn to not use mouse...

Ghosthree3

Sounds like a CPU issue, if it only happens late game, tried turning down the refresh rate on your mouse?

shonan

Do you have raw mouse input enabled? Its confirmed for causing issues with the game:

https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/128165/server-browser-lag#latest

The game cant handle polling directly from mouse, due to Lua or something.

Ghosthree3

I use raw mouse input and mine works fine, so that doesn't cause issues for everyone.

joshhh

Drastic framerate drops cause inconsistency with mouse sensitivity. Even with a good rig, this game has huge framerate fluctuations. It is just something we all deal with until the game is optimized more.

IronHorse

shonan wrote: »

Do you have raw mouse input enabled? Its confirmed for causing issues with the game:

https://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/128165/server-browser-lag#latest

The game cant handle polling directly from mouse, due to Lua or something.

I'm running my mouse at 1000 mhz polling with zero issue and know many others who have zero issue with raw input as well as high polling rates - so its obviously not a universal issue that the game has, and in fact may be due to many other factors such as the user's hardware software combo.

For many computers, increasing the polling rate can destroy your FPS, based on the performance of your rig, so this is nothing new, but i suspect that something odd is going on with specific hardware/software interaction for some people when playing NS2.

While what @joshhh says is true, that is a way more finite and hard to observe scenario while your issue is far more measurable with that profile shot.

_____________________

SO... my suggestion is that since we know this is not a universal issue and performance isn't an issue for you:

I'd start with drivers, and test different polling rates.. same applies to your DPI settings.
When that fails, i'd then investigate your OS and it's settings.
While it may be a universal fact that the more your mouse is polled the more resource intensive it is, you have an outstanding cpu at a great clock that should have no issue handling high polling, but due to it being overclocked, you may wish to investigate your overclock settings like EIST etc etc.. one of those settings may be inducing this.
Basically you are in uncharted territory, but there is no game code related reason according to the developers, of why you should be getting this, they recommend investigating the same things i just did.
Goodluck and keep us updated so that we can further help


edit: google searches turn up a lot of forums like these:
http://forums.logitech.com/t5/G-series-Gaming-Mice/G300-polling-rate-problem/td-p/987897
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/261998-28-high-mouse-polling-rate-spikes
http://www.ngohq.com/news/15043-how-to-increase-usb-sample-rate-in-windows-vista-7-a.html#post73228
http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=260509

LudwigX

The raw input seemed to haved caused the issue:

I was playing a 20 Minute round from start, 22 players. However not lots of structures on the map:

Raw Input on, mouse NOT moving:72 fps
Raw Input on, mouse moving in circles @ 1000hz polling rate with the mouse: 60 fps + small microstutters
Raw Input on, mouse moving in circles @ 125hz polling rate: 68 fps, the microstutters were still present, but much better

But now:
Raw Input off, mouse NOT moving: 110 fps!!!!!!!!!! (I double and tripple checked this, it is coused by raw input!)
circles with 1000hz: 104 fps and no microstutters
circles with 125hz: 105fps and no microstutters.

However: If I join a new game and toggle raw input on and off, there is no change in the fps. I will continue testing with 1000hz and Raw Input off. If the problem consists I will check 125hz out.
I don't think this is overclocking related. I used the open multiplicator of the CPU and only increased the cpu voltage slightly.
This may not be a universal problem, but i know at least 2 more people with that issue. Of course I will ask them if they have Raw Input on, or if they could change the polling rate. I will post their answer as well.

IronHorse

Interesting..
Could you please include the zip file from the techsupport.exe found in your ns2 directory?
And just in case its not in there, what mouse model and driver do you use, and are you using a USB port thats 1, 2 or 3.0?

Thanks

LudwigX

The tech support file is attached.

It's a logitech G500 mouse. I had the normal windows driver installed till yesterday. Then I installed the logitech driver to change the polling rate. Problem existed with both drivers.

The USB Port ist 2.0, but I also have a 3.0 Port that I could use

Edit: Do you know if raw input enables raw-input for keyboards as well? I have a Sidewinder X4 keyboard and I read that Microsoft sets up multiple HID devices in the system as an anti-ghosting method.

Ghosthree3

Pretty sure raw input is mouse only, as most of the time you want it off for keyboards.

shonan

Raw input is for mouse only, so the "cursor" isnt passed through Windows and accuracy is better.

I have my mouse on a USB 3.0 port (have also used USB2), default Windows drivers, polling rate of 500. Mouse is Logitech G9

IronHorse

So only commonality so far is Logitech hardware. Hmm..

I forwarded the thread to devs to see if they have any input because there really isn't much to go on from here..



Edit :

Google finds : battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654347730723226/
battlelog.battlefield.com/bf3/forum/threadview/2832654624724586327/

Three things to try :

1) Control Panel>Power Options>Change Plan settings>Change Advanced Power Settings>USB Settings>USB Selective Suspend Setting>DISABLE.

By default, I found this setting to be enabled.

Also, check BIOS settings and make sure that there isn't any power setting that may affect connectivity with USB devices. Set to maximum performance/no power savings/etc for USB.

2) Overlays Are an issue for NS2... So given the similarities in symptoms, triple ensure no Overlays are active.. Mumble, team speak, anti virus, msi after burner etc

3) unplug every single thing that is USB.. Even internal card readers.. Then see if the problem persists

LudwigX

I did 1), then I checked the EFI. I cannot change any USB device Power settings there.

To 2): Only the steam overlay is active. Running in the background are only nvidia control panel, Steam, Thunderbird, Teamspeak, Unified remote (control your pc via smartphone), Xonar Driver, Avast anti virus

To 3)
I tried unplugging everything and it makes no difference. I plugged in a the mouse, keyboard, a printer and a USB dongle.


I also tried to replicate my former result. Toggling raw input somehow doesn't make any difference when i don't use the mouse.
But as soon as I move it, the frames begin to drop heavier with raw input on (1000hz polling rate, USB selective suspend setting disabled)
not moving mouse: 92 fps
moving mouse with raw input: 80 fps
moving mouse without raw input: 90 fps

IronHorse

I would ensure that you start windows with only the necessary required (manufactured by microsoft and drivers only) by going to start > run > msconfig > startup

Restart, Then do the same test.
This will disable things like teamspeak hooks etc. that may still be running in the background from boot. (and whose plugin does cause issues for ns2)
Also ensure that no usb dongle is connected, and as little as possible for this testing. (some of those threads i found mentioned how easily a usb device can screw with the polling priorities)

Mige

I can confirm this also, not sure about late game (I suspected it could have some issues..). Some people are more sensitive than others to see things like this Check this thread http://forums.unknownworlds.com/discussion/comment/2114434/

My mouse G400 (500hz). Easiest to reproduce this is to start listen server & map veil, get aliens side and try to get cargo hive. Turn cheats 1 and spam (use cheat command "tres") structures everything on to alien hive area. Check your fps (using afterburner OSD screen) while moving your mouse and use alien commander view (raw input on/off). I will put more detailed info when I get back to home..

This 1 player & 2min cheats on game I got 135-> 125 fps drop

CLARK_KENT

I've experienced this as well. Using a CM Storm mouse. I'll add that I've checked my fps at that point, and my fps will be anywhere from 45-60 frames per second, but it looks and feels like half of that. When not experiencing this issue, when my fps is 45-60, game play is still relatively smooth, and looking and feeling as expected.

I'm not 100% sure if this is related, but I notice that when I start experiencing these "stutters" , most of the time, I am unable to switch to my Steam overlay, nor am I able to type text messages via public or private chat. For the latter, I can type the letter to initiate the chat, and the prompt shows up (e.g. "Team:"), but I cannot type any message or characters whatsoever.

LudwigX

I tried running the game with only the minimum required programs running in the background. The problem still exists like in my last post.

ZEROibis

Use your mouse on the ps2 port

IronHorse

Silly suggestion: have you tried disabling the steam overlay or reinstalling steam?
This person has the same issue and solved it by reinstalling steam - it's overlay was causing issues.
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showpost.php?p=33137427&postcount=25


Also: try testing with hyperthreading turned OFF in bios.
It caused a lot of mouse stuttering issues for BF3 at launch. worth a try.


It may be nothing, but Interesting to note when comparing your DXDIAG with mine (we have similar systems, like the same GPU and OS and driver and almost the same mouse) i found that you had multiple devices showing for your mouse - unlike mine which just shows one? :

" Device Name: G500
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC068
FF Driver: n/a

Device Name: G500
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC068
FF Driver: n/a

Device Name: G500
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC068
FF Driver: n/a
"

Whereas mine just says

"Device Name: Gaming Mouse G400
Attached: 1
Controller ID: 0x0
Vendor/Product ID: 0x046D, 0xC245"


Use device manager to uninstall and remove any extra mice, and then re plug back in yours only.

And i found this nifty tool, you should run it : http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

LudwigX

Disabling the overlay didn't change anything.

The 2500k has no hypertheading

I could only find 1 mouse in the device manager. I uninstalled it. But the mouse still show's up as 3 devices when I unplug and re plug it in

The latency shows mostly values of about 170 microseconds, the highest value was 196 microseconds