co_twither_beta

Twither

A re-work of my original combat map co_Twither_r for NS1. The level is 100% playable, but is in beta. Much testing is needed and there are only a few spots where detail is needed.

Take a look, let me know what you think, rate/subscribe

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=150129488&searchtext=twither

DarkSeraph

Hey, the map looks great. Here are my initial notes, aside from gameplay:

• The map is not currently playable - no one can do damage. I think the map is missing ns2gamerules entity?
• Marine Start area - use smoothing on some of those detailed faces. It will smooth out some of the shadows on the geometry; check out the tutorial here
• Don't be afraid to use the location entity to label parts of the map. It makes it easier for players to call out areas to coordinate.
• The East hall, to the right out of marine spawn: the first segment is too dark, marines should have an advantage near their own base and it should be fairly clearly lit. The very long hall is seriously just too straight and long. There need to be some breaks of line of sight in both of these halls.
• At the very west end of the East Hall (towards the center of that long hall) there is some error in geometry and people can exit the map
• The north east hall, just east of hive, need some vis breaks in it badly
• minimap_extents must be square - x & y must be the same. Also it needs to be stretched lower, part of the floor in some areas is missing from the minimap.
• Putting vents into a layer named 'Vents' will make them yellow on the minimap
• Vent covers - the broken vents or whatever, make them non-collidable
• The energy spirals in the west hall, and those bulky generators, get marines stuck super easy. Maybe create some CollisionGeometry in its own group?
• draw calls - r_stats in console will pull up some good information. Draw calls - optimized should max out around 1000. I've been told 1800 should be max. In the hive I get 5000 in places. This will cause lag in game. I think the highest I've seen in a UWE map is lava falls around 2200 (there might be higher).
• lighting - There is no right way, but I like to use the ambient light to gently light every corner of a room. This way your dark shadows can still show visible texture, but barely.
  
  The map is well done and looks great, just need some small tweaks. Great job so far!
  
  edit: I also remember something about not being able to change the level filename in the future - away from 'beta'. It causes issues in the workshop. It's best to republish with no '_beta'

Twither

Hey man, I appreciate all the feedback. I'll get to work on that ns2gamerules right away.
As for the locations, I did add them to the map but I think i hid the visgroup, so I'll look into that.
The dark area in the marine spawn is intentional (i was pushed to release the map as I have been developing it wayyyy too long, I will add detail in an update for sure =D)

Excellent work on the feedback sir, I will update tomorrow evening.

Rellik_pt

did you test it with players?

DarkSeraph

Twither wrote: »

Hey man, I appreciate all the feedback. I'll get to work on that ns2gamerules right away.
As for the locations, I did add them to the map but I think i hid the visgroup, so I'll look into that.
The dark area in the marine spawn is intentional (i was pushed to release the map as I have been developing it wayyyy too long, I will add detail in an update for sure =D)

Excellent work on the feedback sir, I will update tomorrow evening.

locations - hidden or not, if they exist they will work. Make sure the location name is set to show on minimap?

Feel free to add me on steam and let me know if you have any questions. For an early version it looks great!

Rellik_pt wrote: »

did you test it with players?

I tested with one other player and you do no damage to players or structures. It also spams the time to overtime message a million times.

Twither

Okay I've run into a bit of a situation. The map has a ns2_gamerules entity (as I thought it did) but for some reason it is still unplayable. The hive and the command center both hurt you if you touch them, and are invulnerable. Any ideas?

Flaterectomy

I just loaded your map in the editor, and noticed you have more than one ns2_gamerules entity. I see one in the ready room, but also one at alien start. You only need one, though I don't know what effect having more than one would have.

Your locations are unnamed, though I don't know if that would have any odd effect. I think I've seen maps without named locations before, though those might've simply not displayed their names.

Unrelated to your game breaking issues, I'm staggered by how many light entities I see. I think there's room for optimization here.

DarkSeraph

Twither wrote: »

The hive and the command center both hurt you if you touch them, and are invulnerable. Any ideas?

If you join a game before start this is the default - tech points are invulnerable and do slow damage if you're close. Type cheats_1 into console and it will start the game without any other players.

Twither

@Flaterectomy

I agree the optimization does need to be done. That is a work in progress, and I am still optimizing the occlusion at marine spawn and working on a few lighting fixes here and there

DarkSeraph

Error: Couldn't open file 'models/.material'
Error: No shader specified for material 'models/.material

You also get this error constantly if you open up Output in the editor.

Somewhere in your map is a prop_static pointing to a material file, I guess? The real problem is how to fix it... how do you find the right bad prop_static among your thousands of models. But maybe we won't have to if the prop is not near the rest of the map.


Yup, that fixed it: Go to top view - drag around map and select everything. Paste into a New File. Save over the original (create a backup?). Test with cheats and shoot your own building. It works.

Twither

I'll do that next build to remove the error, thanks for the info.

Jibrail

looking good, good job!

Twither

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=151879205
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=151879119
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=151879007

Few screenshots of the new marine hallway (replaces the dark placeholder, and also the reactor room)

Twither

I have updated the map as of last night, the map is a few builds from final.
All that is left is optimization and balancing.

Here are a few screenshots of what I just finished.
This replaces the marine "placeholder" hallway, and reactor core.

=Mr.P=

looks awesome can't wait to see it in game
tell me when you're map is ready i will put it on my server
http://steamcommunity.com/groups/MrPs1

ZEROibis

Should be renamed ns2_co so that it will show up when users search ns2_co in the workshop as you can not search co b/c it is too short also ns2_co has been selected as the standard naming system for co maps.

Please also place the modid in the description so that server operators can actually install it.

Twither

@ZEROibis the mod ID has been in the description sir, and the map itself has been renamed to ns2_co_twither during that last build

Twither

@=Mr.P= The map is ready for public play

ZEROibis

cool, it was not loading for me in the workshop and I did not see a modid in this thread. It is loading now and I can not wait to add this!

Twither

I just realized I forgot to put the map iinto the correct output folder, it is now working as intended and the updated map should be available for download!

ZEROibis

Looks great, some parts of the minimap need to be cleaned up and it would be nice to have vents colored in the minimap to make it easier for first timers. Added to live server!

=Mr.P=

Twither wrote: »

@=Mr.P= The map is ready for public play

map is on the server
server# ip: 62.65.106.53:27050

Twither

@ZEROibis that is the part I am working on next. I am in the final stages of the map which is cleaning up textures, smoothing some edges, cleaning up the minimap and fixing the environment outside of the map (so you can't see through walls if you're looking out the glass)

@=Mr.P= thanks man

ZEROibis

Had a play on the map today with a full server. Everyone loved it even though some were a bit taken back when they first saw it. Everyone was surprised how balanced it felt even though marines won every time lol. The biggest improvement players said for their #1 request was to color the minimap and clean it up a bit and apparently that is already on the list for the next update so that is great news.

Honestly, I would shorten the length of some of the areas just outside marine start by like 5ft on each side just to tuck those massive open areas in more and possibly make the north route more naturally accessible as everyone appears to go south most of the time. However, there is no major issues with the map balance as it is right now from what I can tell so doing that might be more work than it would be worth.

Thanks for making such a great map!

Twither

The one issue I did have with the map was that the direct route through the Atrium was significantly faster than the route through the plaza, however the more "open" environment of the Atrium is better balanced for a deathmatch type gameplay, whereas the plaza and it's winding corridors is better to take if you want to sneak.

One idea I did have in mind was possibly adding a room that redirects your route right before the coolant bay, that way it will balance out both routes and take just as long to get to each others bases.

I did test the times between each route, and the South route is faster by a good 30-45 seconds (which is a considerable amount of time). This room I am designing is going to cut that to a time of within 3-5 seconds, which is a significant change

Another idea was moving around the command station inside marine spawn, allowing for a more natural flow to both corridors.

Twither

There was a balancing issue regarding marines being able to suppress the alien hive from the large room behind the hive.
Without severely changing the layout of the map, a solution has been come to.




I put up a glass barricade around the backside of the Hive to force exo-suits and grenade lobbing marines to move into harms way in order to attack the hive.
This will allow for more balanced gameplay.

Currently in the works:
More vents on alien-side coolant bay and atrium
Always optimizing the map
Working on a re-direction room right before the coolant bay to increase base-race times.

Edit:
Please keep in mind that the cosmetic of this wall is temporary, and a more appropriate themed and detailed wall will be placed in the future.

DarkSeraph

Looking good. In order to color vents yellowon minimap put them all in a layer named Vents.

ZEROibis

Are these changes live yet, or should I hold off before I put this back in rotation? Thanks for the fast patches btw!

Twither

They are live sir.

ZEROibis

Great fun testing the latest changes again today. This map is really coming along great strategically this is I believe the most complex combat map out right now. There is a lot going on and that is not a bad thing and I have really enjoyed how all the different areas have a unique feel and gameplay to them.

ZEROibis

I figured out how to address the issues of balance on the hive from the other side. Instead of chaining the direction of that entrance change the height. If your going up a ram so to speak it will reduce your field of view to only the top of the hive from further back in the hallway. This will force marines to push up and back in order to hold that position and attack. In addition marines always seem to have harder problems aiming up than down.

Something like a 30-40 degree slope should do the trick.